Samsung LE-A780 SERIES LED

[David Mackenzie]

Take a console in and ask to plug it in - not too easy with the current generation of heavy beasts I know, but at least then you'd be able to see for yourself if you have any issues.

[qubyb]

Today I had the opportunity to see the Sony W4500 as well as the Sammy 856 (CCFL) and the 786 (local-led-dimming) in one and the same shop. I spent 2 hours watching critically, I was allowed to play with the remotes and I had the possibility to watch different content varying from analog SD to Full HD.

Actually … I think you won’t have a bad deal with either of them. Neither is perfect, all three may have their lil shortcomings, but all give a lot of fine technology for the money and show a remarkably good picture. Still, so far, to me the winner is … the Sammy 786.

I am a critical viewer / hobbyist and I would definitely want to calibrate the set to its best possibilities. It may not have the objectively measurable optimal D65 color representation, the straightest gamma curves or what ever other measurement criteria one may want to throw at it; it simply was the set with the picture that appealed most to me.

My idea is that it is a lot like with audio speakers. Technicians might argue that, theoretically, the best speakers should show a straight frequency response curve, preferably far beyond our hearing capability, say from 5 to 50.000 Hz. Interestingly though to an audiophile a set that has that ideal frequency response not necessarily sounds good. It seems that some less objective, immeasurable, more personal parameters like “musicality”, “presence”, “stage”, “depth” (an almost similarly crazy vocabulary as with wine tasting ) play a significant role. Fact of the matter is that certain speakers just sound very good even while they may show non-optimal measurement results.

I feel with TV watching it is the same … the set that shows the best measurement results not necessarily looks nicest in your eyes … it all boils down to subjective preferences and some immeasurable personal parameters are into play.

To me nothing with the Sammy picture was considerably better or worse than the Sony, just somehow different, difficult to describe. What I definitely love about it, and what makes me prefer it, are the deep blacks (accomplished by the local led dimming) and the glossy screen. Even with some visible reflections to me it has more of a “wow” factor than a matte screen, which converts reflections into a grayish glare, spoiling the deep blacks. With the glossy screen the picture really “pops off” and has “depth”. The 100 Hz seemed to work fine and the color settings have enough options to play with to find close to optimal settings (I bet). Analog SD was rather “unwatchable” with all three sets (on a 46’ at least) but luckily I have digital cable with built in upscaling that does a really nice job with SD and that was a pleasure to watch. HD content needs no discussion … it’s just “wow”, on all three sets.

Between the 856 and the 786 my choice would be the 786 because of the dimming led lighting: it has just a tad deeper blacks and lacks the obvious auto dimming like the 856 and the Sony may show and which can not be switched off. The multimedia options on the 856 are not important to me. I liked the red bezel a bit better, but that should never be more important than picture quality.

So … I bet within a few weeks there’ll be a Sammy 786 “in tha house”

[pureffm]

For those of you who want to activate motion plus, this can be done in the service menu by changing the scanning value to 1:

LD
IES_TH 100
IES_COeff 243
Patt_Sel 0
LVDS_RX_FMT 1
LVDS_RX_BIT 1
LVDS_TX_FMT 1
LVDS_TX_BIT_ 1
LD_SW 1
LED_Level 32
SF_OM 1
SF_Option 1
TF1_ON 1
TF2_On 0
ThTF2_Ratio 4
ThTF1_Ratio 4
ABL_ON 0
R_ABL_LEVEL 230
LIMIT_COE 255
L3DD_ON 1
L3DD_Ratio 7
L3DD_LD2_OLD3 1
L3DD_Satu_Level 6
SC_Demo_0
Scanning_0
8Bit or 10Bit 1
LD_Demo 0
LD_Board_Test Off

Backlight Scanning improves motion resolution at the expense of slight flickering on some sequences.

[David Mackenzie]

What?! The TV is capable of it but they disabled it?

Fantastic find!

[pureffm]

I have to say I haven't been able to test it because I returned my set, but by reading my earlier posts on the service menu it clicked.

Motion plus is also called Backlight Scanning and the fact that a demo mode is available for scanning (SC Scanning) indicates this is a major feature involving LED's.

So I am pretty sure this is the right setting. I remember that after playing with this I had some flickering, but I didn't realise it enables Motion plus until now, because I had a static PC picture while playing with it.

Hopefully someone can confirm what the real benefits are.

[pureffm]

Someone on the German forum followed my suggestion and it is working. Apparenty the picture looks a bit plasma-like due to the light flickering.

[mikl1984]

Originally Posted by pureffm

@David

It seems that the UK model you tested doesn't have blinking backlight (black frame insertion), which is why the motion resolution is lower for the European models (300-600) versus the US ones (>1000).

Here two tests of the US models that measure motion resolution higher than 1000:
Will You See All The HDTV Resolution You Expected? 125 2008 Model Test Results- HD GURU Exclusive » HDGURU.Com

Samsung LN46A950 Flat-panel TV reviews - CNET Reviews

Direct comparison is wrong due to different schematic in LN and LE series
I remember that LE use Mediatek and LN use Samsung chip based on ARM9

[charles]

I have had my 46" 786 for a week now and my opinion there is not a TV to match it on black level.It is CRT 100% black,no clouding or back light issues.Try to see Rufus Wainwright sings Judy Garland on Sky HD from the London Palladium.The shots of him highlighted with a black background are amazing.
As I work in John Lewis Audio/Tv Deparment I see all the latest models.The latest Pioneer Plasmas despite all their claims are no better than the Samsung added to which the Samsung picture is more vibrant with no screen burn issues!
Charles

[KeanosMagicHat]

I've had this TV for 2 weeks now. I'm disappointed. Having owned an M8 and F86 I feel motion handling has taken a step back 2 years. I am also very confused as to why there is so little mention of the bezel halo effect on here as it can be clearly seen even in low light never mind darkness.

[pureffm]

Originally Posted by KeanosMagicHat

I've had this TV for 2 weeks now. I'm disappointed. Having owned an M8 and F86 I feel motion handling has taken a step back 2 years. I am also very confused as to why there is so little mention of the bezel halo effect on here as it can be clearly seen even in low light never mind darkness.

Have you tried activiating motion plus in the service menu (see my posts above)?

I had the same motion handling problem...

[KeanosMagicHat]

Originally Posted by pureffm

Have you tried activiating motion plus in the service menu (see my posts above)?

I had the same motion handling problem...

Thanks for the suggestion but I'm not one for altering service menus. I'll happily tweak all the user adjustable settings but not service menu ones.

The motion is definitely worse than either the M8 or F86 tho and the halo annoying for someone that likes to watch HD TV and movies in darkness or near darkness like me.

[mikl1984]

pureffm
Please post HDMI EDID report from moninfo for your TV
EnTech Taiwan | Utilities | Monitor Asset Manager

[pureffm]

Originally Posted by mikl1984

pureffm
Please post HDMI EDID report from moninfo for your TV
EnTech Taiwan | Utilities | Monitor Asset Manager

I don't have it anymore, gave it back due to the motion handling issue.Didn't have a chance to test backlight scanning on my set, hence my questions.

[mbmapit]

Originally Posted by pureffm

For those of you who want to activate motion plus, this can be done in the service menu by changing the scanning value to 1:

LD
IES_TH 100
IES_COeff 243
Patt_Sel 0
LVDS_RX_FMT 1
LVDS_RX_BIT 1
LVDS_TX_FMT 1
LVDS_TX_BIT_ 1
LD_SW 1
LED_Level 32
SF_OM 1
SF_Option 1
TF1_ON 1
TF2_On 0
ThTF2_Ratio 4
ThTF1_Ratio 4
ABL_ON 0
R_ABL_LEVEL 230
LIMIT_COE 255
L3DD_ON 1
L3DD_Ratio 7
L3DD_LD2_OLD3 1
L3DD_Satu_Level 6
SC_Demo_0
Scanning_0
8Bit or 10Bit 1
LD_Demo 0
LD_Board_Test Off

Backlight Scanning improves motion resolution at the expense of slight flickering on some sequences.

So is it better to set this to on or leave it off?

[GOLFATHER76]

Originally Posted by qubyb

Today I had the opportunity to see the Sony W4500 as well as the Sammy 856 (CCFL) and the 786 (local-led-dimming) in one and the same shop. I spent 2 hours watching critically, I was allowed to play with the remotes and I had the possibility to watch different content varying from analog SD to Full HD.

Actually … I think you won’t have a bad deal with either of them. Neither is perfect, all three may have their lil shortcomings, but all give a lot of fine technology for the money and show a remarkably good picture. Still, so far, to me the winner is … the Sammy 786.

I am a critical viewer / hobbyist and I would definitely want to calibrate the set to its best possibilities. It may not have the objectively measurable optimal D65 color representation, the straightest gamma curves or what ever other measurement criteria one may want to throw at it; it simply was the set with the picture that appealed most to me.

My idea is that it is a lot like with audio speakers. Technicians might argue that, theoretically, the best speakers should show a straight frequency response curve, preferably far beyond our hearing capability, say from 5 to 50.000 Hz. Interestingly though to an audiophile a set that has that ideal frequency response not necessarily sounds good. It seems that some less objective, immeasurable, more personal parameters like “musicality”, “presence”, “stage”, “depth” (an almost similarly crazy vocabulary as with wine tasting ) play a significant role. Fact of the matter is that certain speakers just sound very good even while they may show non-optimal measurement results.

I feel with TV watching it is the same … the set that shows the best measurement results not necessarily looks nicest in your eyes … it all boils down to subjective preferences and some immeasurable personal parameters are into play.

To me nothing with the Sammy picture was considerably better or worse than the Sony, just somehow different, difficult to describe. What I definitely love about it, and what makes me prefer it, are the deep blacks (accomplished by the local led dimming) and the glossy screen. Even with some visible reflections to me it has more of a “wow” factor than a matte screen, which converts reflections into a grayish glare, spoiling the deep blacks. With the glossy screen the picture really “pops off” and has “depth”. The 100 Hz seemed to work fine and the color settings have enough options to play with to find close to optimal settings (I bet). Analog SD was rather “unwatchable” with all three sets (on a 46’ at least) but luckily I have digital cable with built in upscaling that does a really nice job with SD and that was a pleasure to watch. HD content needs no discussion … it’s just “wow”, on all three sets.

Between the 856 and the 786 my choice would be the 786 because of the dimming led lighting: it has just a tad deeper blacks and lacks the obvious auto dimming like the 856 and the Sony may show and which can not be switched off. The multimedia options on the 856 are not important to me. I liked the red bezel a bit better, but that should never be more important than picture quality.

So … I bet within a few weeks there’ll be a Sammy 786 “in tha house”

very satisfied with your review. after looking at sony & samsung i feel same

I LOVE SAMSUNG picture quality

Sony picture is cloudy & not sharp like samsung

so its defenalty SAMSUNG FOR ME

Cheers everyone