[col996s]

Originally Posted by Alan CD

Hi

Screen burn on LCD TVs? I don't think so.

Big on the market these days are the active LCD picture frames with static photos. Do they suffer from screen burn? I don't think so!

I've been using the same LCD screen with my PC for the last 7 years with a static picture screensaver when not in use. Screen burn? Er... No!

The manufacturers are covering their collective whatsits.

Alan

I work for a Company that manufacture machines with LCD displays. I have seen displays returned where the text menu has burnt into the screen.

[youngsyp]

Originally Posted by col996s

I work for a Company that manufacture machines with LCD displays. I have seen displays returned where the text menu has burnt into the screen.

What type of LCD displays are they?

Paul

[rado]

Originally Posted by youngsyp

What type of LCD displays are they?

Paul

Hi,

I can confirm that the text burn is visible in my A656 40'' model. Sometimes white text burns on black screen but it disappears quite fast. It's not like burn in plasmas but looks like the same. The burn is not visible from far distance (like 2 meters or more). I think you should not worry about this issue.

BTW, Why the screen text is moving on black screen (like "No Signal" warning) --> it's against screen burning. Think this before you think that screen burn is history?

Here's my quick calibrating guide:

1. Set your room light as normal viewing conditions and then set the back light of TV (I like four, three is too dark for me)

2. Start setting the contrast (use some test patterns, trust you eyes)

3. Set brightness (use test patterns or calculate, Brightness = 0.0065 * Y value of 100IRE)

4. Set Grey scale (offset values --> affects the low end values 10...50IRE, gain values --> affects 50...100IRE)

5. Start calibrating yellow color then green (I noticed that this is the best way for me, if you start primaries the secondaries are harder to get right)

6. Calibrate primary colors

7. Check everything as many times as needed

Happy calibrating!

[youngsyp]

Originally Posted by rado

3. Set brightness (use test patterns or calculate, Brightness = 0.0065 * Y value of 100IRE)

The figure gained from this calculation applies to what the luminance (brightness) level at 10% white/ 10IRE should be to gain a flat gamma response of around 2.22.

Originally Posted by rado

5. Start calibrating yellow color then green (I noticed that this is the best way for me, if you start primaries the secondaries are harder to get right)

You should really set the primary colours up first as, these will also set the secondary colours closer to where they should be on the CIE chart. Setting the 'Colour' and 'Tint' controls before primary and secondary colour calibration may help here.

Paul

[rado]

Originally Posted by youngsyp

The figure gained from this calculation applies to what the luminance (brightness) level at 10% white/ 10IRE should be to gain a flat gamma response of around 2.22.

You should really set the primary colours up first as, these will also set the secondary colours closer to where they should be on the CIE chart. Setting the 'Colour' and 'Tint' controls before primary and secondary colour calibration may help here.

Paul

Hi,

I never used Colour or tint controls. Thanks for the tip.

Rado

[jojoad]

Originally Posted by kurkosdr

Hello and thanks for all the help in the first part of the topic. You will probably think that I am nuts, but it's been 4 months since I got this tv, and I still can't get a decent picture out of it. I really need help, as I am even thinking of giving it to my parents and go and buy myself another. Here are the two settings I am struggling between:

-The "good quality, but dull looking" setting:

Mode:Movie
-Backlight: 7
-Contrast:95
-Brightness: 49 (configured so by the eye using lagom lcd patterns, so that 2% is visible)
-Sharpness: 20
-Saturation: 50

However, everything is looking a little bit washed out and dull in this setting, it just doesn't have the bright colors of the second setting

-The "good looking but not so good quality" setting:

Mode: Normal
Backlight: 7
Contrast:95
Brightness:51 (configured so by the eye using lagom lcd test patterns, so that 2% is visible. It's exactly the same with the brightness of the other mode, even if the number is higher)
Sharpness: 20
Saturation: 50

However, this mode tends to loose quality in darker parts, no matter how much you increase the brightness (increasing brightness only results in showing up the parts of the dark areas that were crushed to black). This mode crushes the dark blue and dark red parts of the picture more than the dark green, and doesn't crush the dark grey/white ones (this results in a weird picture ofcourse). I would like to keep this mode as it is, with only removing the black crush effect. If it's the DNIe+ causing it, I want to get rid of the DNIe+ by any means possible (my set doesn't have a control for the DNie+ in the picture settings menu as bigger models do)

How can I get rid of the DNIe+ ? Please help!

How can I remove all sorts of "retouching" from the normal mode?

For 4 months, I can't watch dark movies properly in this set, as the DNIe+ (or whatever else causes the black crush) removes al detail from the dark backrounds (so, I have to switch to the "dull" mode everytime)

(if I need to get to the service menu, please also bother to tell what settings I need to note down in order to be able to revert to the factory settings, and what I must not mess with, cos this place is little bit of dangerous for non entusiasts like me)

I have a LE40A656 and I'm happy with the following HD settings.
It's AlanCD's settings but I've increased backlight from 3 to 5 to fit my ambient light. I have a 150 watt yellow lamp facing the ceiling.
I see that you have your backlight and brightness set too high. I resume it's because of your ambient light so I think these settings will help you. AlanCd's colour space and WB gives to my set a very realistic warm picture and very good blacks.

Mode: Movie
Backlight: 5
Contrast: 90
Brightness: 45
Sharpness: 0 up to 12 for sharp image
Colour: 52
Tint: G50/R50

Detailed Settings
Black Adjust: Off
Dynamic Contrast: Off
Gamma: 0
Flesh Tone: 0
Edge Enhancement: Off
xvYCC: Off

Custom Colour Space (AlanCD settings)
Red: 23 , 0 , 0
Green: 0 , 38 , 0
Blue: 0 , 0 , 43
Yellow: 43 , 43 , 0
Cyan: 0 , 46 , 48
Magenta: 27 , 0 , 45

White Balance (AlanCD settings)
R-Offset: 26
G-Offset: 25
B-Offset: 25
R-Gain: 13
G-Gain: 25
B-Gain: 15

Picture Options
Colour Tone: Warm1
Size: Just Scan
Digital NR: Off
100Hz Motion Plus: Low

[Butty85]

Hi,

had my first calibration run with my DTP94 last week. setting the greyscale was very good. All delta's around 3.
Gamma 2.22 and contrast ration around 2165...

To calibrate the colors are very difficult. I dont get the correct values for red yet but I will try to get it.

One question which value for Y (ftl) are you using for 100IRE white ?

Will post some settings and graphs soon...

[Mike RB]

I got a question for probably Paul or Mumid.

I have bought a Sony S350 blu ray player and copied the settings from my calibrated Xbox 360 to HDMI 3 and ran through the ColourHCFR software to check how close the greyscale, primary and secondary colours are.

The greyscale is pretty good, I get a stupid reading a 0ire (lots of green), but I put this down to the Spyder2 being unable to take a worthwhile reading at this ire. However, the rest is very good and even though improvable, its close enough for me to be happy with.

However, the colours are giving me a problem. Red is around 20 DeltaE which I expect as I always had difficulty with getting red correct. The main problem is blue for me though which is around 40 DeltaE which baffles me. The x and y values are almost bang on to the correct values. The arrow in the colour chart is also pointing directly in the middle (almost) so I'm lost as to why the DeltaE is so far out.

Has anyone any ideas? I'm thinking it might have been a bad reading and maybe I should try again. The Y value (luminence?) is very low compared to the Y value of all the other colours. I didn't think this affected the DeltaE though and it was only the x and y values I was trying to get correct.

[youngsyp]

Originally Posted by Butty85

One question which value for Y (ftl) are you using for 100IRE white ?

That's down to personal preference and the viewing conditions you have.

Just make sure that at peak luminance, 100% white is white and not clipping at all.
It should also be comfortable for viewing.

Personally, I stick in between the 30-40 ftL range, prefering the lower end...

What problems are you having with getting the red primary right?

Getting primary and secondary colours right was for me the most difficult process to understand, simply because no one had explained the A656 CMS in detail and I was overcomplicating the process. It is however one of the best CMS' on any production TV and very easy to use once you understand what it's doing and what you need to do with it.

If you need a hand, let me know.

Paul

[youngsyp]

Having a quick look around the website, it looks like we're the only LCD owners putting the effort in to calibrate our panels properly.... Certainly in terms of sheer numbers at least.
Most seem to be using test patterns that come as extras with movies and using DVE disks etc.

I find that very interesting...

Paul

[Butty85]

That's down to personal preference and the viewing conditions you have.

Just make sure that at peak luminance, 100% white is white and not clipping at all.
It should also be comfortable for viewing.

Personally, I stick in between the 30-40 ftL range, prefering the lower end...

Thx, how can I see that clipping, when white is glaring me ?

I have calibrated with 40 ftl. will have a look again.

Hm I dont get the correct y/x values for red. It is possible to change the values when i put down the red value but Y for red is changing, too. The calibration guide says red Y should be 21% Y of 100IRE Y.. I think it's a learning process...

Which Pattern-DVD do you use for your DVD-Player ?

[youngsyp]

Originally Posted by Mike RB

The greyscale is pretty good, I get a stupid reading a 0ire (lots of green), but I put this down to the Spyder2 being unable to take a worthwhile reading at this ire.

Out of interest, did you have this green 'peak' on other sources?

Originally Posted by Mike RB

However, the colours are giving me a problem. Red is around 20 DeltaE which I expect as I always had difficulty with getting red correct. The main problem is blue for me though which is around 40 DeltaE which baffles me. The x and y values are almost bang on to the correct values. The arrow in the colour chart is also pointing directly in the middle (almost) so I'm lost as to why the DeltaE is so far out.

Has anyone any ideas? I'm thinking it might have been a bad reading and maybe I should try again. The Y value (luminence?) is very low compared to the Y value of all the other colours. I didn't think this affected the DeltaE though and it was only the x and y values I was trying to get correct.

That'll be your luminance (Y) value.
Color HCFR calculates the dRE's using the values from the x,y and Y readings, not just the x and y. If the luminance value is way out, it will also affect your PQ. They should all be close to bang on. That's the easiest part to achieve, when adjusting primary and secondary colours in my experience.

What problems are you having with the red primary?

Can you post up a screen grab of the Color HCFR dashboard (not just the charts) after you've measured red and blue? I'm specifically interested in the RGB colour percentage indicator on the left of the dashboard...

Paul

[youngsyp]

Originally Posted by Butty85

Thx, how can I see that clipping, when white is glaring me ?

It may look pinky or have a hint of colour to it.
You'll also see a dip in the primary colour response, between 80 and 100% white (IRE) on the greyscale chart in Color HCFR.

Originally Posted by Butty85

Hm I dont get the correct y/x values for red. It is possible to change the values when i put down the red value but Y for red is changing, too. The calibration guide says red Y should be 21% Y of 100IRE Y.. I think it's a learning process...

That's right, red luminance should be 0.2127 of peak white luminance.
I normally go through and set the luminance values of the primary and secondary colours fisrt, then go through and adjust hue and saturation levels (x and y). You can then keep an eye on luminance levels as you adjust the hue and saturation, to keep them where they need to be.
I'll try and post up a 'best practice' guide, I just need to find the image I'm after to illustrate it.
You may already be doing what I post in the guide... If not, I hope it will help.

Originally Posted by Butty85

Which Pattern-DVD do you use for your DVD-Player ?

I use the Color HCFR one. I think it's available from the AVSforums...

Paul

[Mike RB]

Originally Posted by youngsyp

Out of interest, did you have this green 'peak' on other sources?

That'll be your luminance (Y) value.
Color HCFR calculates the dRE's using the values from the x,y and Y readings, not just the x and y. If the luminance value is way out, it will also affect your PQ. They should all be close to bang on. That's the easiest part to achieve, when adjusting primary and secondary colours in my experience.

What problems are you having with the red primary?

Can you post up a screen grab of the Color HCFR dashboard (not just the charts) after you've measured red and blue? I'm specifically interested in the RGB colour percentage indicator on the left of the dashboard...

Paul

Hi Paul,

I didn't have such as large green peak on the 360 when I calibrated that (using AVS HD HD-DVD), but I'm not sure I can trust the readings at 0 IRE? I have FW 1020.1 with dynamic dimming on so at 0 IRE, the screen is VERY black. 10 IRE is within 10 DeltaE and 0 IRE is around 300!!

I wonder if the problem with calibrating the colour is that I have dynamic contrast on (low) as I thought I'd calibrate it with that feature on as I like it despite me being well aware I shouldn't really use it if I want a very accurate picture.

I think what I'll do is take readings again tonight with the dynamic contrast off (as this completely ruins the gamma and luminence charts) and post up the charts data for you to see. I'm at work at the moment so have access to nothing I'm afraid.

Back onto the green peak at 0 ire. As its something silly like 1800% green, surely I'd see that on a black image? I don't however, it looks black to me and I notice these things fairly easily. I just think its the inaccuracy of my sensor low end.

Also, no matter what I do, I can't get red accurate. I'll have another go and post up the data.

thanks again. As always, very helpful.

[Mumid]

Originally Posted by Mike RB

I got a question for probably Paul or Mumid.

I have bought a Sony S350 blu ray player and copied the settings from my calibrated Xbox 360 to HDMI 3 and ran through the ColourHCFR software to check how close the greyscale, primary and secondary colours are.

The greyscale is pretty good, I get a stupid reading a 0ire (lots of green), but I put this down to the Spyder2 being unable to take a worthwhile reading at this ire. However, the rest is very good and even though improvable, its close enough for me to be happy with.

However, the colours are giving me a problem. Red is around 20 DeltaE which I expect as I always had difficulty with getting red correct. The main problem is blue for me though which is around 40 DeltaE which baffles me. The x and y values are almost bang on to the correct values. The arrow in the colour chart is also pointing directly in the middle (almost) so I'm lost as to why the DeltaE is so far out.

Has anyone any ideas? I'm thinking it might have been a bad reading and maybe I should try again. The Y value (luminence?) is very low compared to the Y value of all the other colours. I didn't think this affected the DeltaE though and it was only the x and y values I was trying to get correct.

Post your HCFR file up and I will load it up and have a look. If the luminance isnt correct it can give large delta errors. Changing the lightness of a primary colour in the CMS can fix this.

[youngsyp]

Right, found what I was looking for...

This is how I adjust the primary and secondary colours using the A656 CMS.

Attached is a screen grab of left hand values display from ColorHCFR. This is the only visual representation I use, and specifically the 3 red, green and blue colour percentage bar chart.

As you know, in the CMS of the A656, we have an R, G and B adjustment control for each primary (red, green and blue) and secondary (yellow, cyan and magenta) colour.

First get the luminance value for each colour correct. You'll need the specific values here and they can be obtained from the 'Calibration for dummies' guide over on the AVSforums.
To adjust luminance levels, adjust the primary colour adjustment in the specific colours CMS for the primary colours. So, to adjust the red luminance, adjust the 'R' value for red in the CMS.
To adjust the luminance value of a secondary colour, adjust the two contributing primary colours in the respective colours CMS screen. So, for yellow, adjust the R and G control for yellow in the CMS.

To adjust the x and y values, is just as easy.
If we take red as an example and using the RGB percentage bar chart in ColorHCFR.
When measuring a red test pattern, you're looking to only see the red bar on the chart have any value. This will be well over 100% so, don't worry about that. If you have a negative % value for the green bar, in the CMS for the red primary, add some green until the green % bar is 0%. The same applies to the blue % bar. As you get nearer to the mark, you will see the arrow in the 'bullseye' graphic get closer to the centre. You'll also see the cursor for that colour on the CIE chart move over where it should be.
For a secondary colour, you need to get the two contributing primary colours at equal % levels using the % colour bars. So using yellow again, it should have an equal percentage of red and green but, no blue.
Be mindful to keep the luminance level where it should be when you're doing this adjustment.
I hope that made sense.

You can use the basic 'Colour' and 'Tint' controls to influence the colour calibration too. I normally roughly set the red primary using the Colour control and the cyan secondary using the Tint control.

The bit that I'm still trying to figure out is what happens if you have a positive value in the colour you don't want and you don't have adjustment to take that out. For example, some green in the red but, the green adjustment is already a '0'.
I'm sure I read that you can adjust the opposite primary colour to take that out but, I'm sure that didn't work when I tried it... I'll have to have another look.
My problem colours are red (has a few % of green in it) and green (has a few % blue in it). I'll need to put some effort into sorting these out, although there is no detriment to the picture as a whole.

Anyway, I digress but, I hope that was helpful to some...

*Edit* I just found this (again):

To desaturate a primary, add equal amounts of both of the other 2 primaries to it. To desaturate a secondary, add the opposing primary to it.
To change the hue of a primary add unequal amounts of the other 2 primaries. To change the hue of a secondary, add unequal amounts of the contributing primaries.
To decrease the lightness of a primary, reduce the amount of the primary itself. To decrease the lightness of a secondary, decrease equally the amount of the contributing primaries.

This would seem to say that you can't increase saturation or hue...

This is specific to the CMS in out A656's

This is a very good explanation of what deviances in saturation, hue and luminance will look like on the CIE chart:

The xy coordinate of a colour establishes its saturation and hue. The Y value establishes its lightness. The correct xy coordinate for all primary and secondary colours is defined by reference points on the triangular CIE chromaticity chart. If the colour deviates from the reference point by appearing shifted towards other colours on the chart, then its hue is wrong and needs correcting. If a colour is shifted closer to or father from the white point on the chart relative to the reference, then its saturation is wrong and needs correcting. Finally, if the colour is too bright or too dim relative to the establish standard (not shown on the chart, but determined mathematically), then its lightness is wrong and needs correcting.

Paul

[whitehart]

Originally Posted by youngsyp

Having a quick look around the website, it looks like we're the only LCD owners putting the effort in to calibrate our panels properly.... Certainly in terms of sheer numbers at least.
Most seem to be using test patterns that come as extras with movies and using DVE disks etc.

I find that very interesting...

Paul

You got a point! I've calibrated mine and kind of left it now as otherwsie I'd never enjoy watching films/TV/ playing games. At some point you have to draw a line

Now where did i put my calibration kit !!!

[youngsyp]

Originally Posted by Mike RB

Hi Paul,

I didn't have such as large green peak on the 360 when I calibrated that (using AVS HD HD-DVD), but I'm not sure I can trust the readings at 0 IRE? I have FW 1020.1 with dynamic dimming on so at 0 IRE, the screen is VERY black. 10 IRE is within 10 DeltaE and 0 IRE is around 300!!

I wonder if the problem with calibrating the colour is that I have dynamic contrast on (low) as I thought I'd calibrate it with that feature on as I like it despite me being well aware I shouldn't really use it if I want a very accurate picture.

I think what I'll do is take readings again tonight with the dynamic contrast off (as this completely ruins the gamma and luminence charts) and post up the charts data for you to see. I'm at work at the moment so have access to nothing I'm afraid.

Back onto the green peak at 0 ire. As its something silly like 1800% green, surely I'd see that on a black image? I don't however, it looks black to me and I notice these things fairly easily. I just think its the inaccuracy of my sensor low end.

Also, no matter what I do, I can't get red accurate. I'll have another go and post up the data.

thanks again. As always, very helpful.

Hi Mike,

If you can't see any green in a dark picture or in blacks, I don't think you should worry about the measured results. I'd tend to agree with you in that the Spyder is just not accurate at that light level. You'd definitely see a green picture if it was indeed 1800% at any luminance level.

I don't think the Dynamic Dimming should affect the luminance calibration of the colours... When measuring these, they'll be at 100% luminance so, the dimming shouldn't be active.
Having said that, it's definitely worth measuring them with the Dynamic Dimming off, just out of a process of elimination.

I think red is the hardest colour to get right on this panel. It's certainly the hardest for me. The frustrating thing is that I can see why. I just don't understand how to do anything about it. More reading needed me thinks.

Paul

[Mike RB]

Originally Posted by youngsyp

Hi Mike,



I don't think the Dynamic Dimming should affect the luminance calibration of the colours... When measuring these, they'll be at 100% luminance so, the dimming shouldn't be active.
Having said that, it's definitely worth measuring them with the Dynamic Dimming off, just out of a process of elimination.



Paul

It's the dynamic contrast I have set to low. The dynamic dimming (in the SM) is active but like you say, I don't think affects setting the CMS.

And, yeah, its strange the figures for 0IRE. But, like you say, I'd see a lot of green on a dark image, whereas I can't see any colour in dark images. They look black to me, so I won't worry about that.

Once I get my colours closer to spec, I'm leaving it. Only reason I've started messing with it again is because of the new blu-ray player I bought which is lovely by the way.

[Butty85]

woow youngsp nice guide.

I've found out exactly these things and that's the problem, I have some green in my red value.
It seems you have to balance the other 2 colours. I will have a try.

But one thing is unclear. What are the Y values for the secondary colours ?

Red = 21% of white
Green = 71% of white
Blue = 8% of white

[youngsyp]

Originally Posted by Butty85

What are the Y values for the secondary colours ?

Red = 21% of white
Green = 71% of white
Blue = 8% of white

Here you go:

Colour Definitions
SMPTE-C (Standard Definition)

-----x--------y--------Y
R---0.6300---0.3400---0.2124
G---0.3100---0.5950---0.7011
B---0.1550---0.0700---0.0866
Y---0.4209---0.5067---0.9134
C---0.2306---0.3262---0.7876
M---0.3144---0.1606---0.2989
W---0.3127---0.3290---1.0

Rec. 709 (High Definition)
----x-------y--------Y
R---0.6400--0.3300---0.2126
G---0.3000--0.6000---0.7152
B---0.1500--0.0600---0.0722
Y---0.4193--0.5053---0.9278
C---0.2246--0.3287---0.7874
M---0.3209--0.1542---0.2848
W---0.3127--0.329----1.0

PAL (Europe)
----x---------y--------Y
R---0.6400---0.3300---0.2220
G---0.2900---0.6000---0.7067
B---0.1500---0.0600---0.0713
Y---0.4172---0.5018---0.9287
C---0.2197---0.3287---0.7780
M---0.3271---0.1576---0.2933
W---0.3127---0.3290---1.0

As you can see, blue as 8% of white at 100% is quite a way out...

I think you're right about balancing the other two primary colours too.

Paul

[Butty85]

Here you go:

Colour Definitions
SMPTE-C (Standard Definition)

-----x--------y--------Y
R---0.6300---0.3400---0.2124
G---0.3100---0.5950---0.7011
B---0.1550---0.0700---0.0866
Y---0.4209---0.5067---0.9134
C---0.2306---0.3262---0.7876
M---0.3144---0.1606---0.2989
W---0.3127---0.3290---1.0

Rec. 709 (High Definition)
----x-------y--------Y
R---0.6400--0.3300---0.2126
G---0.3000--0.6000---0.7152
B---0.1500--0.0600---0.0722
Y---0.4193--0.5053---0.9278
C---0.2246--0.3287---0.7874
M---0.3209--0.1542---0.2848
W---0.3127--0.329----1.0

PAL (Europe)
----x---------y--------Y
R---0.6400---0.3300---0.2220
G---0.2900---0.6000---0.7067
B---0.1500---0.0600---0.0713
Y---0.4172---0.5018---0.9287
C---0.2197---0.3287---0.7780
M---0.3271---0.1576---0.2933
W---0.3127---0.3290---1.0

As you can see, blue as 8% of white at 100% is quite a way out...

I think you're right about balancing the other two primary colours too.

damn my mistake, I hadn't seen the last row

now it's clear. Thanks.
Next week I'm in holiday and spend some time to calibrate my TV

Will get a feedback soon

[Mumid]

Originally Posted by youngsyp

The bit that I'm still trying to figure out is what happens if you have a positive value in the colour you don't want and you don't have adjustment to take that out. For example, some green in the red but, the green adjustment is already a '0'.
I'm sure I read that you can adjust the opposite primary colour to take that out but, I'm sure that didn't work when I tried it... I'll have to have another look.
My problem colours are red (has a few % of green in it) and green (has a few % blue in it). I'll need to put some effort into sorting these out, although there is no detriment to the picture as a whole.


Paul

Excellent post mate. Shame such useful posts end up getting lost in threads on here.

Anyway, same issue for me mate too. Would be interesting to see if there's anything that can be done to help this. I have just put it down to one of those things you will have to live with! I wonder if maybe Gordon might be able to shed some light over this if he's reading!?

One thing to note, in order to get some of my colour delta's under 3, i had to give more luminance to that colour than it should have. I think this is probably because of this issue you mention above. For example, I have to give Red about 7% more luminance than its supposed to have, otherwise the delta error for Red will increase to way over 3 if i set it to the right luminance. Im guessing this is because there is too much Green in it which means Red needs to have more luminance than it should have.

[youngsyp]

Originally Posted by Mumid

One thing to note, in order to get some of my colour delta's under 3, i had to give more luminance to that colour than it should have. I think this is probably because of this issue you mention above. For example, I have to give Red about 7% more luminance than its supposed to have, otherwise the delta error for Red will increase to way over 3 if i set it to the right luminance. Im guessing this is because there is too much Green in it which means Red needs to have more luminance than it should have.

That's interesting....

Before I re-calibrated red after the 1020 FW update, it was something like 8 dRE. After setting up luminance and getting the saturation and hue much closer to where it should be, dRE's went up to 13. I bet that's the luminance...

I may have a look at that this week. I'm sure a bit of trial and error may sort it.
I wonder if playing with the 'Colour' control may affect it much?! I've not changed that for a good few calibrations but, relied on the CMS instead.

Reading through some of those notes I found again too, I think I may be able to improve my red and green primaries fairly easily. We'll see.

Paul

[Just Me]

Was thinking about getting a Spyder 2 Express, do the results warrant the cost of the kit, (I know its about £60 but it is near Christmas)

[Mumid]

Originally Posted by Just Me

Was thinking about getting a Spyder 2 Express, do the results warrant the cost of the kit, (I know its about £60 but it is near Christmas)

Depends how happy you are with your current picture mate but on the whole I would say yes

[Mumid]

Originally Posted by youngsyp

That's interesting....

Before I re-calibrated red after the 1020 FW update, it was something like 8 dRE. After setting up luminance and getting the saturation and hue much closer to where it should be, dRE's went up to 13. I bet that's the luminance...

I may have a look at that this week. I'm sure a bit of trial and error may sort it.
I wonder if playing with the 'Colour' control may affect it much?! I've not changed that for a good few calibrations but, relied on the CMS instead.

Reading through some of those notes I found again too, I think I may be able to improve my red and green primaries fairly easily. We'll see.

Paul

Yes, definately trial and error needs to be used. What i do is change the lightness of a colour up or down a couple of notches, remeasure and then check delta's to see if they go up or down. Looking at my calibration, the luminance for every colour is correct except for Red and Green and like you, they are the colours that are the problem ones - I have had to add more luminance than they are supposed to have in order to bring the delta errors for these two colours down. However, I have got all delta errors under 3 so I am happy with that.

EDIT - Yes I never use the colour control, I just set everything in the CMS too. Let me know if you find anything .

[Butty85]

Yes, definately trial and error needs to be used. What i do is change the lightness of a colour up or down a couple of notches, remeasure and then check delta's to see if they go up or down. Looking at my calibration, the luminance for every colour is correct except for Red and Green and like you, they are the colours that are the problem ones - I have had to add more luminance than they are supposed to have in order to bring the delta errors for these two colours down. However, I have got all delta errors under 3 so I am happy with that.

EDIT - Yes I never use the colour control, I just set everything in the CMS too. Let me know if you find anything .

hm I mean I read that the human eye is more sensitive for changes in lightness like in colour difference. so should it be better to get a higher Delta but the correct luminance.

[Mumid]

Originally Posted by Butty85

hm I mean I read that the human eye is more sensitive for changes in lightness like in colour difference. so should it be better to get a higher Delta but the correct luminance.

Gordon made an excellent post about this:

http://www.avforums.com/forums/lcd-t...libration.html

I think it is best to get the lowest possible delta errors you can.

[kurkosdr]

Originally Posted by youngsyp

What are your 'Tint', 'Gamma', 'White Balance' and 'Colour Space' settings set to? The same question for 'Colour Tone'?
Do you have any of the picture 'enhancements' switched on?
Overall, your settings look quite average... By that I mean along the same sort of lines as others I've seen. The backlight level is a bit high for my taste but, I'm not watching your screen!
DNIe doesn't function in 'Standard' and 'Movie' mode, only 'Dynamic' mode.

Thanks for the answers pal!!
-Unfortunately, my TV's menus are different than yours. There are no 'Detailed Settings', 'Custom Colour Space', or 'White Balance' in mine, so I may have to enter the service menu to change these. The only relevant options available 'Picture menu' and 'Picture Options' (except the 100Hz thing and blue only mode).
-The backlight is so high due to lots of ambient light during daylight my room has (I use to reduce it to 4 when it's night).
-Since my TV is different than yours, how can I see if DNIe is really turned off in my set at normal mode?

------

Anyway, these are not my problems, the problem with normal mode is this (screenshot taken in dark room)

See? Altough it shows perfectly the white and yellow darks, the blue is crushed up to '3', and red '1' is also crushed. Call me a nerd, but, if you ask me, this is lost detail, plain and simple. Increasing brightness will only make matters worse, as the crushed blue and red is NOT recovered, it just increases the 'jump' from the non crushed parts of the picture. And it is hell of noticable. When people are wearing blue taxuedos, you are able to see the non-crushed blue in the shoulders, and then suddenly the taxuedo becomes black! Same thing with dark blue cars (able to see the upper part of the door, the suddenly the lower part of the door turns to black)

This is not happening at all in movie mode! Taxuedos never turn to black, they turn smoothly from blue in the shoulders in very dark blue in the lower part. I am also perfectly able to see all the colours (red and blue included) from '1'(barely visible) to '32' -forgot to take screenshot in movie mode, sorry-.

I want to make the dark parts of the picture in normal mode to become the same with the ones in movie mode! It may be wrong from the calibrator's point of view, but tell me how to do it and you 'll make me a happy man! (my idea is simply to copy the service menu settings of the movie mode that make it's dark parts so damn good to the settings of the normal mode, but I don't know which settings of the service menu control the dark parts of the picture )