[GEO147]

Originally Posted by yesteryeargames

im very upset

apart from the other things i listed tonight whilst playing cod waw on 360
i noticed that black lines in the scenery for example gave a bluring rainbow black smearing?????? effect type trail it seems to happen on black lines, esspeiclly on the castle level in the flooring, ive tried game mode, motionflow, noise reduction options and this still happens, im very upset as its 4 days old £890

please please advise as im very disharted and sad atm , i bought from totaldigital.biz and im worried they wont help me out if need, be and if they would ill need to pay for delivery cost back to them £ 30 ?????

Sorry to hear that. If I were you I would have it replaced if you want to gamble or demand your money back. If you dont it will leave a sour taste in your mouth and you will regret it as you will never really be happy with your purchase.
If it costs you £30 quid to get your money back then so be it you will at least have options thereafter.
Best of luck with whatever you decide to do!

[sammy20v]

to reduce the smearing significantly try colour space standard and colour temp either warm1 or normal, you will find these more accuratley represent the colours anyway. It is unfortunatley a problem with LCD TVs, bothe the toshiba wlt66 and kdlv3000 I had before the w4500 had these problems, only really noticeable on cod.

[vader100]

Originally Posted by GEO147

You just keep telling yourself that then if it makes you feel better. Also, its not that Sony sold mega amounts on this panel, how could they? It was practically discontinued as it was hitting the shelves! Standard sales talk!
And I will not be buying one just to be "taken seriously" by you, as it is too late at that stage, and I value my hard earned cash!(that is the benefit of forums such as this)
And dont feel sorry for me, feel sorry for all the individuals that dropped big money on a fundamentally flawed panel based partially on ultra optomistic sound bytes such as you have been providing in this and the previous thread.

If you have as you say a perfect set then count yourself very lucky. I do want a Sony panel for its brilliant pictue quality which I agree is the best, but I will wait for them to make/design them properly.
Buying a set such as this and turning down practically every setting to hide the faults is in my opinion like buying a Porche and not being able to drive it on the motorway!

A whole 21 posts in on this forum and trolling already. You don't even own the set but feel fit to advise people on what they should and shouldn't do with it. Regardless of whether it is a Sony,Samsung or panasonic keep your uninformed opinions to yourself.

Many of the settings are there to help with poor signal I/P's,to smooth them out and process them. HD viewing does not require that smoothing so I do not use them for HD so your Porsche analogy is rubbish. Freeview and others I/P's I use what I think I need to use, that is my tired old mini that needs a bit of smoothing.

There are millions of people out there happy with this exceptional set, on the forums you tend to see people only with problems. I guess you are not to happy with your current set because you'd rather come on here stirring it up than be watching something on it.

[YellowSphere]

Originally Posted by GEO147

Buying a set such as this and turning down practically every setting to hide the faults is in my opinion like buying a Porche and not being able to drive it on the motorway!

No it's not. Usually the "best settings" are advised on the basis of being closer to industry standards, and as a side effect will make any backlighting issues harder to detect.

If people use these settings from the off and don't go looking for clouding, then not only would you be enjoying a more realistic and true-to-source representation of what you watch, but you are far less likely to notice any QC issues and will be using far less power to boot.

I would argue that a set (any manufacturer/model) is only eligible for replacement if the clouding is still noticeable on normal content at sensible settings. Also bearing in mind that it'll settle in more as time goes on.

We've had a few W4500s on display at the shop where I work over the months it's been out, one had clouding that absolutely no customer ever ever picked up on, even though it was running in standard at a high backlight. The other's didn't, in fact, none of the other Sonys we have in at the moment do. A Philips and Samsung one do, and one of the Panasonics. It definitely does not effect only Sony.

[stringbender]

Hey Foxy77,

Just got my set yesterday.Noticing those white lines flashing up on screen when streaming movies through ps3.Seems to dissapear when i turn the "Game Mode Off".

How did you get on with it? Any ideas.....its well annoying.

I take it you use the game mode just in the games themself and its fine.

Ian

[yesteryeargames]

put it on this morning back on cod, its bad black smearing , thing is i havent noticed it before last night, so the fault must of just popped up


its awful any black smears and leaves a nasty trail please any advise ? also im extreamly worried because the site i orderd from totoaldigital.biz say all faulty items . you must contact them in 3 days of purchace, its my 5th day now .


edit, string , i have these white lines too, when playin ps3 or 360 maby notice them once or twice day.

[sammy20v]

Originally Posted by yesteryeargames

put it on this morning back on cod, its bad black smearing , thing is i havent noticed it before last night, so the fault must of just popped up


its awful any black smears and leaves a nasty trail please any advise ? also im extreamly worried because the site i orderd from totoaldigital.biz say all faulty items . you must contact them in 3 days of purchace, its my 5th day now .


edit, string , i have these white lines too, when playin ps3 or 360 maby notice them once or twice day.

Firstly all lcd panels are slower to respond when cold so let it warm up a little, also try colour temp warm1 or normal and colour space standard this should help with the smearing, it is a inherent problem of all lcds I have ever seen, samsung, toshiba, sony, lg etc (some worse than others, sony and samsung being bad). was your room warmer last evening, as the general room temp will contribute.

Cod is a very good at showing these problems.

also try increasing your brightness slightly, and a lower backlight will also contribute, I have mine set to 6 and am very happy with the results

[yesteryeargames]

Hello, ive tried changing the colour temp. colour space to standard ect, and the problem is still there,

ive tried increasing the brightness, this actually made it worse, ive tried just about every setting mentioned . i would say my room as proberly wamer than last night, since thursday i have not noticed any black smearing, up until last night, now it wont go away what ever i try. if possible ill try to take a video clip somhow, just so you can see how bad this is,

i phoned totaldigital this morning, they told be to email them about the refund ,instead of simply talking to them on the phone, hmm this will take even longer to sort now. and its a 7 days tomorrow since i received it .
anyone dealt with a return with them before?

[ChrisGgr]

Originally Posted by GEO147

You just keep telling yourself that then if it makes you feel better. Also, its not that Sony sold mega amounts on this panel, how could they? It was practically discontinued as it was hitting the shelves! Standard sales talk!
And I will not be buying one just to be "taken seriously" by you, as it is too late at that stage, and I value my hard earned cash!(that is the benefit of forums such as this)
And dont feel sorry for me, feel sorry for all the individuals that dropped big money on a fundamentally flawed panel based partially on ultra optomistic sound bytes such as you have been providing in this and the previous thread.

If you have as you say a perfect set then count yourself very lucky. I do want a Sony panel for its brilliant pictue quality which I agree is the best, but I will wait for them to make/design them properly.
Buying a set such as this and turning down practically every setting to hide the faults is in my opinion like buying a Porche and not being able to drive it on the motorway!

I can quarrantee though that the W4500 in europe have outsold actually every other comparable model in this price range(and in the competitors modes as well).the shortage is actually existent now,not when it did hit the selves.for 2-3 months continiously sales volume was very high for a model in this price range,the sortage problem has been actually visible since 1-2 weeks before.thats why it seems that the W4500 has more problems than other models.when you have double or triple the amount of owners here with W4500 than other model isnt it somewhat logical to see problematic as well?and still I give full credit to a real owner for complaining if it has problems but I cant give credit to someone who hasnt even experienced any problem,because you simply doesnt own one!

[manzo]

Originally Posted by KatTV

Good luck - I guess JL either have to get with the rest of the world, and charge the same for the 46, or you should get a refund and buy it elsewhere for the cheaper price!

KatTV

Well, I ended up getting a refund from John Lewis Online, as they wouldn't honour a price match I got JL Glasgow to do with Robert Whyte (£1235); I say ended up, as it was a good half an hour on the phone, including a surreal discussion as to whether I'd had the TV replaced once already, as they had no record of it!

Unfortunately, it's going to cost me more like £1550 altogether, as my 40 came with a free BDPS550 player, so I'll need to replace that now, and nowhere seems to have the damn thing in stock! Oh well. Hopefully I won't get noticeable backlight bleed on this one, as I just want a working TV now!

[Foxy77]

Originally Posted by stringbender

Hey Foxy77,

Just got my set yesterday.Noticing those white lines flashing up on screen when streaming movies through ps3.Seems to dissapear when i turn the "Game Mode Off".

How did you get on with it? Any ideas.....its well annoying.

I take it you us the game mode just in the games themself and its fine.

Ian

Hi Ian

I've not seen the flickering white lines for a while but was definitely noticeable the first couple of times I used my PS3 on the XMB (never seen it in game or video) - I will keep a look out for it again though.

I have 'game mode' off as I like to have motionflow on most games (Wipeout HD is a good example of where you can see the difference even though its silky smooth anyway)

My other notable settings are:

PS3
RGB: full
Cross Colour Filter: Off
Extra White: Off

TV
Colour space: Wide
Contrast Enhancer: Off
Full Pixel

The only problem I still have is small clouds / bleed / torch type effect in the two top corners.
Its not major but can be seen slightly in very dark scenes and seems worse when the TV has been on for more than a couple of hours.
I'm hoping it fades over time as I sometimes catch it in my peripheral vision and my mind immediately turns to this thead! My missus just laughs when I mention it and doesn't bother her at all (...and she calls me a geek for going on AVforums )

[kdombaz]

Originally Posted by yesteryeargames

so what would you guys advise i do ? its 4 days old,

i say i notice the white line at least once everyday, usually hapopens once then goes away.,

whats sonys view on this ?

swap cables, buy new hdmi cables. do it until you know it happens with all hdmi devices or any cable. it's long winded but to me the only way.

hope this helps.

[kdombaz]

Originally Posted by GEO147

I put my sig there so that YOU COULD see it, and I never said I owned one but that I very nearly bought one twice but did not because of the problems YES PROBLEMS, anyone that can read can see that there are many of them at an alarmingly high rate when purchase price and brand reputation are considered.

To think otherwise is not only foolish but only serves to convince ones self that there are none.

My Samsung is an old model and I have been ready to upgrade for months but not at the cost of having engineers round and swopping sets every other week.

THis is my opinion only and I am more than entitled to it.

The only new policy required at Sony is a new quality control one!!

Yes you are entitled to it and yes I was concerned and still bought one.

Made a consious decision to not look for anything I have read on these forums until I noticed things in my normal viewing experience and no so far I haven't noticed clouding, patchiness, white lines etc. etc.

LCD panels have their shortcommings due to native res. issues hence a lot of work has to be done by clever electronics. Some will do this better than others. None of them are perfect but yet still whilst it was CRT's I could only afford to buy a 32 inch one now I own a 46" one. I have gained something whilst maybe lost some other things (very philosophical aren't I?) but in general it is moving ahead.

In my opinion a lot of the people who post here already had gone through possibly 3-4 lcd/plasma panels by now. To me if we are not happy about it we change it where before you kept your CRT forever.

Is there going to be all singing all dancing LCD/Plasma or other tech panels in the near future I say yeah but even they will be superceeded fairly quickly. So when I buy a new TV I don't go "oh my god I am stuck with this". I have 5 year JL cover and sooner or later panel will develop something irrepairable and they will have to change it. That's how I look at it therefore I don't worry about it too much.

Besides the panel is the best that I owned so far (pioneer, samasung, sharp).

Thanks

Koray

[yesteryeargames]

hmm totaldigital. i sent them an email they said they would reply withing 24 hours, but for some reason this is the only way they said when i phoned em this morning,

anyone had any experience with them returns?

[yesteryeargames]

hmm today is 7 days since i received it, and the guy who happnes to deal with returns ect is not in today ..hmm

is black smear a common problem? ive noticed it allot on cod waw 360. can anyone else test for me? just go to castle and look at the floor where the black bits are :s


any advise on my rights with totaldigital? im really worried now

[cupcakes aka dd]

Just thought I'd re-visit this thread after having my set for a few months. Oh no..............yawn.............not still on about clouding................zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz


'Clouding' a fogging of the mind with which one cannot see what a great TV set this is.

'Clouding' an urge to find pockets of light eminating from the corners of the screen when no image is available.

'Clouding' what the weather is outside whilst you are indoors watching great HD on your W4500.

[JoeA3]

Originally Posted by cupcakes aka dd

Just thought I'd re-visit this thread after having my set for a few months. Oh no..............yawn.............not still on about clouding................zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz


'Clouding' a fogging of the mind with which one cannot see what a great TV set this is.

'Clouding' an urge to find pockets of light eminating from the corners of the screen when no image is available.

'Clouding' what the weather is outside whilst you are indoors watching great HD on your W4500.

Quality.

I don't even know what "black smearing" is! How do I know if I have it?!!

[cupcakes aka dd]

Originally Posted by JoeA3

Quality.

I don't even know what "black smearing" is! How do I know if I have it?!!

Just keep reading this thread. Your TV will develop all sorts of things you never knew existed.

[yesteryeargames]

the company i bought from said they would doa refund, however they expect me to pay return postage whioch was quated as £60
ive already paid £30 for it to be deliverd to me, so thats £90 down the drain on this tv,? any9one know my rights please?

or i can get it sent myself anyone know a courier that would ship from cornwall to birmingham? im in deep trouble here ,


i think im going to have to except the £60 and get my refund, then look at further action against this compnay to claim some of my postage back, any advise on this also please?

[SolefeverX]

Originally Posted by yesteryeargames

the company i bought from said they would doa refund, however they expect me to pay return postage whioch was quated as £60
ive already paid £30 for it to be deliverd to me, so thats £90 down the drain on this tv,? any9one know my rights please?

or i can get it sent myself anyone know a courier that would ship from cornwall to birmingham? im in deep trouble here ,


i think im going to have to except the £60 and get my refund, then look at further action against this compnay to claim some of my postage back, any advise on this also please?

Why not give Consumer Advice a call Consumer Direct. Someone there should be able to help you.

[pavr27]

Originally Posted by yesteryeargames

the company i bought from said they would doa refund, however they expect me to pay return postage whioch was quated as £60
ive already paid £30 for it to be deliverd to me, so thats £90 down the drain on this tv,? any9one know my rights please?

or i can get it sent myself anyone know a courier that would ship from cornwall to birmingham? im in deep trouble here ,


i think im going to have to except the £60 and get my refund, then look at further action against this compnay to claim some of my postage back, any advise on this also please?

If the TV is faulty, then you should not have to pay delivery cost and you should get a full refund including delivery. If the TV is not faulty, then I think you have fewer rights.

[yesteryeargames]

Hi , the tv is faulty ive listed about 6 faults, ive tried explaining on the phone but the compnay has a poor customer service. so im having to pay about £60 postage for it to be returned


think im just going to have to do this, wait untill i get my refund , then do what ever it takes to try and claim back my postage refund, i need to find out which trading rights company i need to get in contact with,

im very sad about this, the fact that the tv was excellent when working, before the faults came, the fact it cant be replaced, and im loosing £90 in total on delivery , if i had this money back id happily donate it to charity or somthing rather than it being wasted like this,

[kdombaz]

Originally Posted by yesteryeargames

Hi , the tv is faulty ive listed about 6 faults, ive tried explaining on the phone but the compnay has a poor customer service. so im having to pay about £60 postage for it to be returned


think im just going to have to do this, wait untill i get my refund , then do what ever it takes to try and claim back my postage refund, i need to find out which trading rights company i need to get in contact with,

im very sad about this, the fact that the tv was excellent when working, before the faults came, the fact it cant be replaced, and im loosing £90 in total on delivery , if i had this money back id happily donate it to charity or somthing rather than it being wasted like this,

If I am allowed I can give you a company link which I use to send my stuff which I sold on EBay. If not I can pm you.

[rolegh1]

I also have had my W4500 for several months and am very pleased with it. Its beyond my expectations as explained elsewhere. As soon as it was set up and ready to go I was realy curious to see how it performed against my Panasonic Quintrix 32 inch CRT. Disregarding the difference in resolution he picture quality matched perfectly. It was scrutinized very carefully for many hours with different program material and remained identical in every way.

Remember that there is no backlighting on a CRT so for the LCD to perform to the same standard is excellent.

After reading so much about the clouding issue I felt very lucky to have escaped this problem however later on a poster submitted a photograph to illustrate the effect. Out of curiosity I turned off the lights and switched to a black screen and sure enough the back lighting could be seen and it also displayed unevenness at the corners.

It is the nature of the technology and I know that Pioneer like to proudly display how black its blank screens can be in a darkened room but LCDs require backlighting to work and in practice it works very well. In fact while auditioning the W4500 a Pioneer 50 inch was displayed on the wall behind playing the same program material and I noticed that the Black on the Sony was blacker. There must be an explanation for this but perhaps another time.

[iceking]

Don't know if anyone has mentioned this before, but I measured the energy consumption of this on the 46w4710 and it was just less than my 32 inch crt. Coming in at 140W on the recommended settings.

[Jack Ryan]

So I switched the original set after 3 weeks. Mrs and I had found obvious and noticeable bleed in top corners and a kind of patch bottom right.

New one, a second 40W4710 from JL, is a good deal better. Settings tweaked, tweaked and tweaked again, half the fun of it all of course. I feel that there is a small area, almost shaft of bleed in top left, super minor on top right, nothing elsewhere except patchy clouding across the centre that never show (only between inputs), with either black or colour filling the space.

Problem with clouding is the habit of looking for it. My wife says much the same coz I am a perfectionist and sometimes have to accept that 'there'll just always be something to moan about'!

Originally Posted by cupcakes aka dd

Just thought I'd re-visit this thread after having my set for a few months. Oh no..............yawn.............not still on about clouding................zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

'Clouding' a fogging of the mind with which one cannot see what a great TV set this is.

'Clouding' an urge to find pockets of light eminating from the corners of the screen when no image is available.

'Clouding' what the weather is outside whilst you are indoors watching great HD on your W4500.

Reckon this is spot on really. For goodness sake I have a 20 inch Sony Bravia that has 5 times worse light bleed.

Watched some dark scenes on Hellboy (Bluray). Picture is jaw dropping. Nothing noticeable expect that small bit in the top left. Thing is, whilst it annoys me one minute it kind of disappears the next. Viewing angles aren't great as others have said.

Many have suggested that the set will bed in and problems almost disappear over time. Had been panicking about the 28 day refund exchange policy (have been told that it runs from date of original purchase not exchange). Can't imagine JL would be too chuffed me trying another set, although I'm sure I'd be able. Strikes me that this issue of 'clouding' is just a part of this set to begin with.

As I have said before the picture is just amazing and I don't know what I would do if I couldn't have this set.

Would anyone here consider returning this second set, trying to exchange (how long do you go on for) or should I just stick with it?

[hansniew]

Hello all. I have been reading for some time now in this topic so I thought it was time for me to introduce myself. I'm Hans, living in the Netherlands, Zoetermeer to be exact. I'm about to move to a new built house and therefore bought a Sony KDL-52W4730. Got it Saturday last and immediately checked for clouding. There is some very minor clouding in the left top corner, but as I read here this may improve over time. Did not notice anything while watching a movie. But what a terriffic picture!! I tested with Earth and Baraka and was completely stunned! The picture is really a BIG improvement over my Sony KDL-40V2000! Ofcourse it also helps that I bought a Pioneer BDP-LX71 Bluray player and a Pioneer SC-LX71 receiver
But for the moment all new equipment is back in the boxes, ready to be moved! Can't wait to install my livingroom HT and test and tweak the thing.
Planning to calibrate the 52W4730 with the Datacolor Spyder TV, which has done a good job already on the 40V2000!

[Restorer]

Originally Posted by hansniew

Got it Saturday last and immediately checked for clouding. There is some very minor clouding in the left top corner, but as I read here this may improve over time. Did not notice anything while watching a movie.

So why would it matter if it improved with time or not if, as you say, it does not show when watching a picture?

[yesteryeargames]

my tv was picked up on friday from totaldigital.biz i phoned them monday they said they had received it and my refund was put through, its wednesday and i still have no refund on my card, im very worried ive been conned here, ive already lost £90 to them. i dont wann loose my cost of the tv too


anything i should do,? my card is a meastro debit card,m should it be taking this long? thx

[reddwarf2002]

Originally Posted by yesteryeargames

my tv was picked up on friday from totaldigital.biz i phoned them monday they said they had received it and my refund was put through, its wednesday and i still have no refund on my card, im very worried ive been conned here, ive already lost £90 to them. i dont wann loose my cost of the tv too


anything i should do,? my card is a meastro debit card,m should it be taking this long? thx

Refunds on Credit or Debit card usually take 3 working days (from when it is applied) to show on your account, so don't worry. The banks hold onto it to earn themselves extra cash!