[tereu5]

Originally Posted by Will99

Damn this thread - I probably would not have noticed it had I not read this, but now I know it's there and can't help noticing it and it annoys me (only joking - these forums are an invaluable source of info ....). JL are sending a tech out but didn't mention anything about them bringing a replacement unit. The only thing that worries me is that it's only really noticeable in dark conditions (which I have told JL), so if the tech comes at lunchtime he might think there's nothing wrong with it and refuse to replace it. I'll just have to cover the windows with blankets or something .....

Yup got same thing. Small clouding in corners. Phone up JL and they sending eng with the replacement (I said that I want replacement because still there is 28days period since I had it) Also must fix some dark blinds just to show this problem :P and dunno which feed to use to show the actual problem.
Another thing is that this clouding keeps changing (or my eyes keep failing me:P) Every day it looks different. Little bit less/more/less etc. We will se on Tuesday...

[MIL0]

Hi all,

First hi - I'm new around here - a great forum - lurked and learned a massive amount from here. Thanks all.

So, this clouding then, I'm struggling to understand why it's a big deal. My newly purchased KDL46W4500 has some "clouding" when I select an input with no signal, but when I'm watching something, the picture is, well, stunning.

I've watched on BD Hellboy II, Wanted and Clone Wars. I've watched a few things on BBC HD. And a bit of SD. The SD has been fine - better than I expected following reviews - but the HD (both 1080p and 1080i) have been absolutely stunning. The depth of the image is almost 3d like and the colours just amazing.

I've been closely looking for problems and have only witnessed a touch of "rainbowing" once on Wanted. Sure, there's clouding when the room is pitch black and there's no single, but otherwise the picture is great.

What's it I'm missing?


Cheers,

MIL0

V+ and BDP-S350 HDMI'd to 46W4500 with sound from both co-ax'd to DTS/DD A/V Receiver.

[Restorer]

Originally Posted by MIL0

Hi all,

First hi - I'm new around here - a great forum - lurked and learned a massive amount from here. Thanks all.

So, this clouding then, I'm struggling to understand why it's a big deal. My newly purchased KDL46W4500 has some "clouding" when I select an input with no signal, but when I'm watching something, the picture is, well, stunning.

I've watched on BD Hellboy II, Wanted and Clone Wars. I've watched a few things on BBC HD. And a bit of SD. The SD has been fine - better than I expected following reviews - but the HD (both 1080p and 1080i) have been absolutely stunning. The depth of the image is almost 3d like and the colours just amazing.

I've been closely looking for problems and have only witnessed a touch of "rainbowing" once on Wanted. Sure, there's clouding when the room is pitch black and there's no single, but otherwise the picture is great.

What's it I'm missing?


Cheers,

MIL0

V+ and BDP-S350 HDMI'd to 46W4500 with sound from both co-ax'd to DTS/DD A/V Receiver.

You're not missing anything and your views represent those of the vast majority of owners of this set

[Will99]

Originally Posted by Restorer

You're not missing anything and your views represent those of the vast majority of owners of this set

Yeah I admit my clouding doesn't really impact the vast majority of regular viewing - but I am just very fussy I suppose and for nearly £1000 I want a TV without any noticeable clouding.

[kultschar]

Originally Posted by MIL0

Hi all,

First hi - I'm new around here - a great forum - lurked and learned a massive amount from here. Thanks all.

So, this clouding then, I'm struggling to understand why it's a big deal. My newly purchased KDL46W4500 has some "clouding" when I select an input with no signal, but when I'm watching something, the picture is, well, stunning.

I've watched on BD Hellboy II, Wanted and Clone Wars. I've watched a few things on BBC HD. And a bit of SD. The SD has been fine - better than I expected following reviews - but the HD (both 1080p and 1080i) have been absolutely stunning. The depth of the image is almost 3d like and the colours just amazing.

I've been closely looking for problems and have only witnessed a touch of "rainbowing" once on Wanted. Sure, there's clouding when the room is pitch black and there's no single, but otherwise the picture is great.

What's it I'm missing?


Cheers,

MIL0

V+ and BDP-S350 HDMI'd to 46W4500 with sound from both co-ax'd to DTS/DD A/V Receiver.

Im glad to hear your opinion on this after just splashing out on the 52W4500!! Hopefully i will be as content and delighted as you!!!

[cupcakes aka dd]

I'm gonna start an Anti-Clouding fan club. Anyone want to join.

[MIL0]

Originally Posted by Will99

Yeah I admit my clouding doesn't really impact the vast majority of regular viewing - but I am just very fussy I suppose and for nearly £1000 I want a TV without any noticeable clouding.

Believe me - I'm fussy! And I would send it back like a shot if I thought it faulty in anyway.

But the thing is - the clouding is not noticeable -only if I switch off all the lights and have an all black screen do I see it. But I don't watch telly like that (well, only if I've had a *really* good night out!).

Seriously - I'm not trying to be funny or argumentative - I just want to understand why people are considering a return of the telly when they only see clouding in unusual viewing circumstances...

Cheers

[Will99]

Originally Posted by cupcakes aka dd

I'm gonna start an Anti-Clouding fan club. Anyone want to join.

Would that be an 'Anti-Clouding' fan club, or an 'Anti- people complaining about Clouding' fan club ?

[MIL0]

Originally Posted by kultschar

Im glad to hear your opinion on this after just splashing out on the 52W4500!! Hopefully i will be as content and delighted as you!!!

I doubt it - I was literally *shaking* with excitement when I 'd finished putting it all together and saw the first BD image! I guess that was partly relief that I didn't spank it when putting it all together and that all the cabling, internet connections, A/V all worked without major issue...

[andicapped]

A bit of info for some. Dont know if this is common knowledge but here goes.

i have a W4500 (or did, faulty) having 20mins ago ha an engineer out i explained the issue and also said i had 2x W4000 previous he asked what was wrong with them i said bad clouding issues to which he giggled and said do you want to see an email from sony.

the email says sony are aware of this clouding on w4000 and w4500 and are unwilling to replace any panels with the problem, it is a problem with LCD tv's and not sony. They also suggest settings to "minimise" it

what a crock of poop!

yes i know lcd technology isn't perfect and some backlight bleed and minor clouding can be expected but the clouding i've seen on some of these sets is horrible

anyway my W4500 had other issues but just thought i'd share what i found out
dont shoot me down i'm just passing on what i've been told

[Will99]

Originally Posted by MIL0

Believe me - I'm fussy! And I would send it back like a shot if I thought it faulty in anyway.

But the thing is - the clouding is not noticeable -only if I switch off all the lights and have an all black screen do I see it. But I don't watch telly like that (well, only if I've had a *really* good night out!).

Seriously - I'm not trying to be funny or argumentative - I just want to understand why people are considering a return of the telly when they only see clouding in unusual viewing circumstances...

Cheers

Well I notice mine in the evening with low ambient light when the affected area of the screen is dark, eg. maybe some dark movie scenes, in the dark screens between game level loads or when switching channels or inputs. Not critical for sure but it just annoys me when I believe it is a technical fault and I have paid the same as others who don't have this issue.

[vader100]

Originally Posted by Will99

Would that be an 'Anti-Clouding' fan club, or an 'Anti- people complaining about Clouding' fan club ?

Both. I'm in.

[vader100]

Originally Posted by MIL0

Believe me - I'm fussy! And I would send it back like a shot if I thought it faulty in anyway.

But the thing is - the clouding is not noticeable -only if I switch off all the lights and have an all black screen do I see it. But I don't watch telly like that (well, only if I've had a *really* good night out!).

Seriously - I'm not trying to be funny or argumentative - I just want to understand why people are considering a return of the telly when they only see clouding in unusual viewing circumstances...

Cheers

My 46" is the same. Slight clouding only visible in very lowlight levels and only when on pure black screen eg. changing a/v channels. Not a sign of it during normal watching conditions, I have calibrated using the DVE disc and I am stunned at how good my HD picture is.

[MIL0]

Originally Posted by andicapped

A bit of info for some. Dont know if this is common knowledge but here goes.

i have a W4500 (or did, faulty) having 20mins ago ha an engineer out i explained the issue and also said i had 2x W4000 previous he asked what was wrong with them i said bad clouding issues to which he giggled and said do you want to see an email from sony.

the email says sony are aware of this clouding on w4000 and w4500 and are unwilling to replace any panels with the problem, it is a problem with LCD tv's and not sony. They also suggest settings to "minimise" it

what a crock of poop!

yes i know lcd technology isn't perfect and some backlight bleed and minor clouding can be expected but the clouding i've seen on some of these sets is horrible

anyway my W4500 had other issues but just thought i'd share what i found out
dont shoot me down i'm just passing on what i've been told

Sorry to hear of your woes and returned telly's - hope you get one you are happy with soon.

When do you notice the clouding - in film, when it's off, etc.

Cheers

[Will99]

Originally Posted by andicapped

the email says sony are aware of this clouding on w4000 and w4500 and are unwilling to replace any panels with the problem, it is a problem with LCD tv's and not sony.

That's self-contradictory - Sony are saying they are aware of the issue on their W4000 and W4500 models, but then say it's a problem with LCD TVs and not Sony.

[MIL0]

Originally Posted by Will99

Well I notice mine in the evening with low ambient light when the affected area of the screen is dark, eg. maybe some dark movie scenes, in the dark screens between game level loads or when switching channels or inputs. Not critical for sure but it just annoys me when I believe it is a technical fault and I have paid the same as others who don't have this issue.

Hi - I get it if you're seeing it in-film/game/whatever and it interferes with viewing pleasure - but I've not noticed it in film yet. Maybe I need a BD copy of Alien....

[andicapped]

MILO- My w4000's were both cloudy all the time, my w4500 just noticable at night in darker sceens or when rthere are bars top and bottom for films more noticable on the top left corner looked like a shooting star

Will99- i think sony mean (dont think i was clear) that it is the technology of LCD's that is the problem not Sony Built products, although in my own experience sony seem worse than others, my older bigger sammy had no clouding issues at all

[MIL0]

Originally Posted by Will99

That's self-contradictory - Sony are saying they are aware of the issue on their W4000 and W4500 models, but then say it's a problem with LCD TVs and not Sony.

It's just the wording - they will have said something like:

"We're aware some customers are reporting issues with clouding on W4000 and W4500 models. We'd like to point out that "clouding" is an issue with LCD technology and not a specific fault with these sets. We'd like to assure our customers that Sony remain fully committed to our customer experience and that our internal quality control checks are second to none. We will, of course, replace or repair any Sony equipment that is faulty subject to the normal terms of the Sony manufacturers warranty."

[MIL0]

Originally Posted by andicapped

MILO- My w4000's were both cloudy all the time, my w4500 just noticable at night in darker sceens or when rthere are bars top and bottom for films more noticable on the top left corner looked like a shooting star

So - I get that - if I saw clouding during semi-dark scenes or white bars top and/or bottom, I'd want to return a set like that. That sounds faulty to me - especially the shooting star bit.

But would you be happy with clouding on just a black screen?

[MIL0]

So - 2 mins google (apologies if this has been posted before), but this is the mail What Hi-Fi published from Sony about this:

"To achieve a high level of performance and picture clarity, Sony utilises a very bright backlight setting. This helps deliver the brightest picture possible, as well as exceptional picture clarity even with the darkest image sources.

However, under certain dark viewing conditions, the setting may cause the screens on some of these televisions to exhibit a slight uneven uniformity, especially for a blank screen with no video source.
This condition is not normally visible under typical viewing situations, such as watching movies or television programmes, and should not affect viewing experience.

Should customers find that this condition affects their viewing enjoyment, we suggest adjusting the following settings to minimise this condition:

1) Setup Menu - select - Light Sensor: ON
2) Setup Menu - select - Power Saving: Low or High
3) Picture Menu -- Reduce the Backlight Level eg 'Standard' or 'Cinema
mode' (Factory Setting = 'MAX')"

My bold. That implies to me that if you see it under conditions other than that i.e. in film, obvious bleeding at the edges, then it's a faulty set.

[unununium33]

I too suffer the dreaded b/l bleed syndrome, mainly top & bottom right h side. What gets me is this is not evident (even on max b/l settings) during the daytime. My TV is situated in the corner of the room with the windown directly behind the TV. As soon as it goes dark and curtains are closed then the bleeding rears it's ugly head. I've placed a lamp behind the TV and it actually helps eliminate most, but not all of the bleed. The rest of the room is illuminated by lamps. I don't watch the TV in total darkness.

My question is, what forces are at work here, when daylight viewing totally eliminates b/l bleed? Is the bleed being eliminated by natural light pouring into the rear of the TV or the front aswell. If so, can I artificially recreate these conditions for nighttime viewing? Are there any better (more natural) sources of light I can place behind the TV?

[Will99]

Originally Posted by unununium33

I too suffer the dreaded b/l bleed syndrome, mainly top & bottom right h side. What gets me is this is not evident (even on max b/l settings) during the daytime. My TV is situated in the corner of the room with the windown directly behind the TV. As soon as it goes dark and curtains are closed then the bleeding rears it's ugly head. I've placed a lamp behind the TV and it actually helps eliminate most, but not all of the bleed. The rest of the room is illuminated by lamps. I don't watch the TV in total darkness.

My question is, what forces are at work here, when daylight viewing totally eliminates b/l bleed? Is the bleed being eliminated by natural light pouring into the rear of the TV or the front aswell. If so, can I artificially recreate these conditions for nighttime viewing? Are there any better (more natural) sources of light I can place behind the TV?

I may be wrong but I would have thought that it is simply a question of the contrast between the brightness of the clouding/bleeding on the screen and the ambient light - ie. compared to normal daytime viewing, in dark conditions the clouding/bleeding is relatively brighter than the surrounding light and is more evident.
To use an analogy, stars are still in the sky during the day but we can't see them because of the light from the sun. When the sunlight goes away the starlight stands out more.

[MIL0]

Originally Posted by unununium33

My question is, what forces are at work here, when daylight viewing totally eliminates b/l bleed? Is the bleed being eliminated by natural light pouring into the rear of the TV or the front aswell. If so, can I artificially recreate these conditions for nighttime viewing? Are there any better (more natural) sources of light I can place behind the TV?

Okay - so I'm not a light engineer or biologist, but my understanding is this:

During the day, there's masses of ambient light from the sun. You just cannot re-create (without great expense) the light created by the sun - it why architects are so particular about letting in as much natural light into a building as possible.

In addition, the pupil of your eyes narrows to let in less light - there's so much of it, eyes compensate for this by the pupils narrowing and letting less light in. This is the principle reason why a light you happily read by at night seems dull during the day.

I suspect it's a combination of these effects that lessens the effects of bleed or clouding during the day and heightens it at night.

Having some ambient light in the room at night will help, but it'snot really the answer. If it so bad as to be noticeable during films and not just when there's no signal on the TV in a dark room, then you may have a faulty set.

Has an engineer looked at it?

[unununium33]

No, I've not had anyone out to look at it. I can virtually eliminate the bleed at night using the lamp at the rear of the TV and turning b/l down to 3, with light sensor "on". This is an ok fix, but I feel the picture is slightly too dull for my liking and prefer a higher b/l setting, say 5 or 6, but then the bleed is quite noticable at night even with the lamp behind the TV. I'm out of the 28 day return policy, set was purch 28th November 2008, but I could still attempt a warranty claim. Trouble is an engineer is only going to visit during the day when the bleed will not be visible.

[Richard]

Originally Posted by vader100

My 46" is the same. Slight clouding only visible in very lowlight levels and only when on pure black screen eg. changing a/v channels. Not a sign of it during normal watching conditions, I have calibrated using the DVE disc and I am stunned at how good my HD picture is.

Glad you finally got your DVE disc.



Can you post your settings on the settings thread please mate I want to see what you got compared with mine??

[unununium33]

Originally Posted by Richfell

Glad you finally got your DVE disc.



Can you post your settings on the settings thread please mate I want to see what you got compared with mine??

me too!

[BrianPK]

Tiny minority with serious clouding/backlight during viewing and normal settings .......get it replaced....it shouldn't be like that.
Vast majority with hints of clouding/backlight only between inputs on blank screen(welcome to LCD)............forget about it and enjoy your peerless and wonderful picture quality

[vader100]

Originally Posted by Richfell

Glad you finally got your DVE disc.



Can you post your settings on the settings thread please mate I want to see what you got compared with mine??

Will do. I keep meaning to and never get round to it. Too busy gawping at my ace telly.

[Restorer]

I think people are being too quick to jump on what Sony are saying about these panels.

1. There has not been a single CCFL-lit panel produced that does not suffer to some degree from backlight issues. That is a simple fact. It is in the nature of the beast and until the new LED technology gets established it just has to be accepted.

2. Until recently the backlight issues have shown up mainly as the inability of LCDs to produce good blacks. In dark conditions screens have been uniform but because of the amount of light getting through they have been uniformly grey!

3. With the new sets we are getting LCD blacks to die for (well dark dark greys anyway lol) - those of the w4000/4500 even approaching those of top end plasmas. But the technology is not perfect and those great pictures have come at a price. In very dark conditions with no video input you will see a some leakage of light - usually at some or all of the corners.

4. Sony are just pointing out that these issues can be well sorted by using the recommended settings. If you have to watch TV in the pitch black well then you will need to adjust the backlight accordingly. I can't think why but I know a few people seem to think that just because it's called Home Cinema it means you have to turn out all the lights.

5. I know this upsets a few of people who say the company should be more up front and inform people about this. Well I think this whole thread is an example of just how spooked people can get about issues like this and you really can't blame them for wanting to avoid the kind of hysteria that gets generated.

6. I am still convinced this is the best value for money large panel LCD out there and if you watch it and enjoy it under the recommended conditions i.e. subdued lighting using the recommended settings then you will be more than satisfied.

[Si_B]

Hi

Can anyone help. I've got my pc connected through dvi-hdmi at 1080p. Iv got a problem when viewing videos on media player classic where the picture keeps going dim and also some times its like I have the settings on cool then it goes to warm.

Does anyone know if this is anything to do with setting on the tv?

Thanks