[Matt Horne]

Hi..

I have been looking into a flat lcd tv for the bedroom..now I do not wish to spend a fortune and so from browsing the web I have seen a 15" samsung which seems to fit the bill

Samsung LW15E23C

Anyone own this ? Or have recommendations for other 15" screens under £600 (max).

Having just got back from lunch and seen the above screen in Dixons.. its not bad though it seems to have quite a bit of smearing (wimbledon was playing) -- the LG and Philips also on display looked a better picture (but u never know how well the screens are setup)

Ideally I would want a screen which could take s-video via the scart socket (or component would be good) and handle video games (which I believe is really down to the refresh rate!)

Thanks

Matt

[LV426]

For bedroom use - something to watch out for is vertical viewing angle - you may need to be able to watch this from below the horizontal, depending on how you intend to use/position it. Many (but not all) LCDs have a fairly poor vertical angle - including the more expensive Panasonic w/s ones. So, when checking them out, try crouching below the set to see if the PQ deteriorates - in the worst cases it begins to look like a negative!

For a 16x9 set - take a look at the 17inch Grundig on sale at Dixon$ for GBP700.

And, when you do buy, get it from somewhere that allows you to either:

a) check out YOUR set before you take it away or
b) return it no questions asked

because, LCDs can suffer bad pixels - these are a manufacturing 'defect' which many manufacturers have a policy that is less than 100% working - in many cases, up to say 5 permanently bright pixels is deemed to be OK - which you would not want. The good news is that, if perfect when new, it is UNLIKELY to aquire bad pixels in use.

Matt

Another (cheaper) option is to get an LCD monitor with svid etc inputs and connect it to an STB.

I've got a 15" Neovo F315 that costs around £250 connected to Sky Digital STB.

You can get a wall mount for it for little money and viewing angle up/down and side is very good.

Pic and sound quality is excellent - looks nice too (see pic).

Only problem with this for a bedroom is no remote control option although if you use a Free to View STB with sound control you;re laughing.

Cheers
OG

[Matt Horne]

Thanks guys...

Its to go on a high chest of drawers so its likely we will be looking from below so to speak, and I would only be using it with my Nintendo Q (panasonic dvd player + gamecube) via s-video cables. Maybe a monitor is a good idea.. but is there not issues with the refresh rate on PC based monitors.. or am I talking rubbish ?

Cheers

Matt

[LV426]

It's not refresh rate exactly - its the speed of the LCD cells - how quickly they can change state. Too slow, and fast motion gets blurred. They all differ; newer sets tend to be faster, as do dedicated TV's (as distinct from PC monitors). Don't know enough to offer suggestions - except to try it out.......

I use a 17" AOC (LM-720A) LCD for PC gaming and don't have any problem with that - don't know how the 2 compare spec wise in that department though.

Have a look at the Sony, looks great and very good picture. If you have a Costco (American Wharehouse shop like Macro) near you they do it for £520 inc 3 year warrantee. One month full refund available if your not happy with it as well which is a good test, I'm sure you would be though. Sharp are good as well but speakers are a bit naff.

Cheers

[Richard46]

Originally posted by Matt Horne
Thanks guys...

Its to go on a high chest of drawers so its likely we will be looking from below so to speak, and I would only be using it with my Nintendo Q (panasonic dvd player + gamecube) via s-video cables. Maybe a monitor is a good idea.. but is there not issues with the refresh rate on PC based monitors.. or am I talking rubbish ?

Cheers

Matt

Hi Matt

Surely that means you will be looking up at the set, or have I misunderstood you. I was just in a Currys looking at LCD's and I did the kneeling down test mentioned above and some of them almost dissappear completely at quite small angles from the horizontal. (the picture that is not the TV). I did not stay down there long enough to notice which ones were worst (too painful) but I think they all became pretty unwatchable.

Regards Richard

[LV426]

Originally posted by Richard46
...but I think they all became pretty unwatchable.

That's my point, almost. Many become unwatchable from just below - but there is an increasing number of newer, typically dedicated TV LCDs, that remain fully watchable from below. Some but not all Sharp and Samsung offerings have a wide vertical angle (~160 degrees +/-) which will be fine for the purpose - but you do have to check this aspect out thoroughly. FWIW, the Panny widescreen sets have very poor below-horizontal performance.

[Matt Horne]

I had better be very careful then

OGIII any chance of a view from below test on your screen


Cheers

Matt

[gmt steve]

Hi Matt, how you doin'? Iv'e got a couple of the Sharp sets. A big advantage would be if you can tilt the set down, so that whilst below it, you're still actually looking at it head on so to speak. I know that the Sharp sets let you do this, the ones with integral stands anyway. Unforunately, the 22" widescreen model is the only one with a tilting stand and the newer ASV panel, which gives a wider viewing angle. I got mine for £1250, twice your budget I'm afraid. See if the Samsung has a stand that allows downward tilt, it could be the solution to one of your worrys.

[Dutch]

Hi Matt,

How about the 17" Relisys RLT1720 from dabs at £468? Hi-res screen, 160 degree V and H viewing angles, 16 ms refresh rate, VGA and component inputs. There is a teletext tuner available next month if required.

Steve

Originally posted by Matt Horne
I had better be very careful then

OGIII any chance of a view from below test on your screen


Cheers

Matt

Why not - I'll let you know in the morning.

[Ekko Star]

If you want to go the monitor route then these guys are doing a 17" F-17 Neovo for a blinding £269. 20ms refresh rate as well, which should make it great for AV usage.

http://www.blankdiscshop.co.uk/acata...Section__.html

I got myself an LG 15" LCD TV a couple of months ago for £349 from HoF. I think they were on promotion back then as they seem to have gone back up nearer to £500 in some places.

The LG I thought was better than the equivalent Samsung, and had a better picture overall. It still suffers from some blurring on fast motion but you tend to get used to it. Close up it is very easy to spot the digital artefacts and the poor quality picture on most LCD screens. However, if you view these screens generally as a TV, ie from a few feet away, then the picture is very good indeed.

For static images or for PC use though LCD screens are fine and are generally as good in this use as their CRT counterparts.

[Matt Horne]

Cheers OGIII!

Hi Steve.. yes a bit over budget.. wife would kill me

I wonder if HOF will have them in the sale as I have some furniture to buy there anyhow!..

I have seen (on the web) the Relisys screen.. very nice but I would have to see it IRL before buying...I think for the price and spec the AG Neovo is leading the way at the mo

Cheers everyone

Matt

Firstly Matt it does have Component input in addition to S-Vid and Composite.

Mine sits on a kitchen top and is still viewable from almost floor level albeit that the picture does become darker.

I'll mail you across some pics later.

Cheers
OG

[Matt Horne]

Thanks for that... the monitor seems superb from the piccies.. and at such a great price..!

Cheers

Matt

[gunrock]

Matt,

As you state that you'll be hooking up a Panasonic Q to the LCD, I'll assume you'll be playing the odd game or two (when the wife allows!). I think you'll find that the Neovo's response time is a tad too slow for the 60hz fast moving games that you might like to play.

If an LCD response time is 20ms then in one second (or 1000ms)it can change the whole screen (1000 / 20) times a second, which is 50. An NTSC gamecube title for your Panasonic Q runs at 60hz which redraws the screen 60 times per second. As the monitor can update only 50 times a second you'll most likely suffer ghosting and blurring especially on games like Metroid Prime where the camera view point changes constantly.

Ideally a monitor with 16ms response time should be aimed for, but you'll pay more for the newer technology, of course.

Just a heads-up. If games aren't really your prerogative (why buy a Q if that's the case), then it may not be an issue.

Cheers

[Matt Horne]

Thanks.. so any recommendations for LCD TV's with a 16ms reponse time ? 15"

Games have to be a consideration as I have a Q,PS2 and dreamcast to use (all NTSC machines/games).. I admit I don't play many games at the mo.. but I would prefer it not to blur everywhere!

How are the philips/sharp 15" with regards to this (neither have component inputs which is a shame) but I may be able to stretch to these if I find a good interest free option!


Thanks

Matt

[Matt Horne]

Just checked the AG Neovo website and for the F315/F317 they have listed the response time as :

Response Time 15ms / 10ms (Typical)

Shouldn't that be good enough ?

cheers

Matt

If you do see the relisys 1720 working in real life i would be very interested to know what they are like as i am considering it as well. I can not find anywhere that has them on show to look at. by the way i would definately go for the samsung 15e23c, you can get it at greatsaves.co.uk for the £330 + £6 delivery charge.

[Matt Horne]

It did not look worth £400 when I saw it in Dixons.. every other screen looked better (and has less smear?)

Matt

Has anyone come across other LCD monitors with component inputs capable of taking an progressive scan picture? Is the Relisys capable of taking an progressive scan input?

Cheers,

Jean-Paul

[gunrock]

Originally posted by Matt Horne
Just checked the AG Neovo website and for the F315/F317 they have listed the response time as :

Response Time 15ms / 10ms (Typical)

Shouldn't that be good enough ?

cheers

Matt

Here's where it can get tricky. The repsonse time of an LCD is made up from the what's called the rising time and the falling time (I'm not sure what these are, but I suspect that they are the time to go from white to black and from black to white). SO in the case of the Acer AL732 with a 16ms response time, it is made up of 12ms rising and 4ms falling.

Now the Neovo specs. suggest that the combined rise and fall times are a max of 15ms with 10ms being the norm. I think that this is marketing misinformation as Neovo haven't released any new models in some time and these times are faster than many screens that have just arrived on the market with a repsonse time of 20ms combined. I suspect that the repsonse time is actually 25ms, which sounds right for a screen at this price and age of design.

I have heard some good things about the Neovo screens but most of the reviews are from when the screen were released, a year or two ago and hence the comparison with newer, faster panels could not be made.

If you search in this forum for Neovo you'll find some more opinions.

Steve

[gunrock]

Originally posted by dejongj
Has anyone come across other LCD monitors with component inputs capable of taking an progressive scan picture? Is the Relisys capable of taking an progressive scan input?

Cheers,

Jean-Paul

According to the spec sheet for the Relisys it has a analog vga port for PC access if that's what you mean.

[Matt Horne]

Ahhh... this is too complicated!..

Gunrock I see from other posts you also had been looking at the Neovo's.. what was the final outcome ?

I am still trying to find the refresh times for the Sharp 13"/15" and the philips... its like trying to get blood from a stone!

Cheers

Matt

[Matt Horne]

Update time... I am booked in on Monday to go to AVSALES to try out the Relisys 17" with my panasonic Q.

I'll report back once I have seen it

Cheers

Matt

[gunrock]

Originally posted by Matt Horne
Ahhh... this is too complicated!..

Gunrock I see from other posts you also had been looking at the Neovo's.. what was the final outcome ?

I am still trying to find the refresh times for the Sharp 13"/15" and the philips... its like trying to get blood from a stone!

Cheers

Matt

From what I can tell, all of the LG / Sharp / Philips small form LCD TV with scart inputs have quite low response times. The demos I had in John Lewis of the Philips was particularly poor too on DOAXBV on the Xbox.

Edit: Sorry Matt, I have pretty much decided to compromise on image quality by going for the Acer AL732 which has 16ms refresh rate but only s-video and composite ins. The reason for doing this is three-fold: the monitor is supposedly very good and the price reasonable, also it has a DVI input so my PC output will be clearer and as my wife's going to have our baby soon I'll have less time for gaming than I do now, so I'll have to live with it!

Having said that I could be swayed by the Relisys if it got some good reviews!

Gunrock


Gunrock

[gunrock]

Originally posted by Matt Horne
Update time... I am booked in on Monday to go to AVSALES to try out the Relisys 17" with my panasonic Q.

I'll report back once I have seen it

Cheers

Matt

Matt,

May I suggest you take something like Metroid Prime or Mario Sunshine (maybe Zelda:TWW) to get an idea of refresh rate. Something that has wild camera movement. I think Zelda may be a good test as the ghosting would be very evident of the cel-shaded gfx.

Look forward to hearing your views.

[Matt Horne]

No problems will do (I have all those games as well!)

Any ideas for movies to try out on it ?

Cheers

Matt