Problems with the Pioneer krl37v - Backlight bleed and image retention

GadgetObsessed · 30-10-2008, 9:39 PM

Today I had a Pioneer krl37v delivered. I have been checking it out some more this evening and have the following problems to report. Firstly while there didn’t seem to be significant bleed on black scenes such as the one below….

Refer to image DSC0047.jpg

....there does seem to be significant bleed when viewing something with a grey background. The example below is displaying the screen saver form my blu ray player. This should be a flat grey with the blu ray logo. As you can see the screen is much brighter everywhere other than the middle.

Refer to images dsc 36 or 43

This is even noticeable with the lights on as can be seen below.

Refer to dsc 45

Additionally there is a strange image retention problem that I have never seen before. When scrolling around the PS3 like menus of the blu ray player there is retention of previous images as can be seen below:

Refer to dsc 0053

If I switch away to another input and back then the image retention disappears as shown below. (So I do not think that this is banding.) See the vertical lighter stripes on the right hand side and the horizontal lighter bar around the "video settings" logo.

Refer to dsc 0055

To confirm that these were problems with the TV and not with the player I connected the bluray to my Sharp 26p50 and did not see either of the above issues

Overall this is one hell of a disappointment. I had seen a demo of the set but did not notice any of these problems. Tomorrow I will be calling Empire Direct to see what they can do. However, I am not sure whether I want to take a chance with another Pioneer or to switch to a completely different model. Perhaps I should just get my money back and try something else.

IanPM · 30-10-2008, 11:04 PM

Bloody hell, that's pretty bad bleed. My instinct says that's a fault, because I've never seen such bad bleed on a Sharp TV, and these screens are very similar.

GadgetObsessed · 31-10-2008, 8:11 AM

I had left the brightness level on the same setting as it was on the set when it arrived as this seemed fine with normal TV. However, if I turn the brightness down from +10 to about -5 then both the backlight bleed and the image retention dissapear.

This brightness level (-5) does seem to be closer to reality as I think that the background on the screen saver should only be a few notches above black rather than the light grey that I was seeing. (The black level on my 4 yr old LCD that I was comparing it too is so bad that it can only do darkish grey so it is difficult to know.)

Perhaps that is why there was no bleed on pure black screens???

Much happier (or relieved) now but I am still concerned that I have to have the brightness so low - is my set faulty???

audiphile76 · 31-10-2008, 8:42 AM

The general rule(irrespective of what technology the panel has) is to immediately change the settings away from default settings. Usually most of the complaints and painpoints from fresh owners is owing to this. Its best to change the settings and then check for flaws. As in this case, well done and enjoy your set

GadgetObsessed · 31-10-2008, 4:25 PM

I currently have the brightness turned down to -5 to eliminate backlight issues on dark grey screens. Initially the brightness was set at about +15 and this showed a dark grey screen as a lighter grey but with severe backlight bleed on the sides of the screen and image retention. Strangely there was no bleed on a black screen with this setting so I am not sure if this is a bleed issue or something else.

I have contacted Pioneer to ask them to have a look at the screen shots here.

Personally, I think that I will have to send the set back as I like to have the brightness around +10 to +15 for TV viewing and someone elses settings on the general Pioneer krl thread confirmed that I am not alone on this.

What brightness settings do other krl owners have?

GadgetObsessed · 03-11-2008, 7:56 AM

My settings are as follows:

Picture: AV Standard
RLS: Off
Backlight: +1
Contrast: +29
Brightness: +6
Colour: 0
Tint: +1
Sharpness: +5

Pro Adjust:
Colour Temp: Mid-Low
100HZ: on
Pure Cinema: Standard
Activecontrast: off

Option:
DNR:low

GadgetObsessed · 03-11-2008, 8:38 PM

Had a reply email from Pioneer after they had a look at the pictures here on this thread. According to Pioneer the brighter light at the sides of the screen is normal for this model and simply due to the underlying backlight technology used in LCDs.

I went and had a look at another Pioneer krl37v in a shop and when displaying a dark grey background that set was exactly the same as mine.

I do not want to overstate the severity of this problem. I have only noticed it on dark grey backgrounds. Black and light grey is not a problem. The screen saver probably makes it look worse as it fades in and out.

Generally the PQ on normal (SD) TV from my Sky box and DVD is very good. Only ocassionally do I notice anything where I think that the sides of the TV look brighter than the rest of the screen.

sjw · 03-11-2008, 8:44 PM

If those pics were from a Sony etc. they would be slated for it...

Suave · 03-11-2008, 8:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by garydhooper

Had a reply email from Pioneer after they had a look at the pictures here on this thread. According to Pioneer the brighter light at the sides of the screen is normal for this model and simply due to the underlying backlight technology used in LCDs.

Hi,

Backlight bleed to that extent is normal according to Pioneer? Wow, that's pretty bad - I noticed they stated "normal for that model" & not for LCD's in general - I would be annoyed as hell paying such huge a premium for a set that acted like this!

Suave!

GadgetObsessed · 04-11-2008, 9:30 AM

But is this problem backlight bleed or something else?

I see no bleed on black backgrounds e.g. if watching a widescreen movie the black bars above and below the picture are pure black all the way up to the sides.

It is only on dark grey that the screen isn't uniformly bright. (e.g. on an Avia test disk it has grey screens going from 10 URE (or ORE cannot remember, whatever ORE/URE is??) which is almost black up to 100 URE (white or nearly white) in steps of 10 URE. Now that I have turned the brightness down from about +15 to +6 the problem is only really obvious on the 20 URE screen or on the Blu-Ray screen saver.

I tried the Avia test disk on a Pioneer krl37v at a shop and that seemed similar to my one at home (possibly a bit better but difficult to tell.) The player I tried it on was linked to a lot of LCDs and none of the others had such uniformity issues. Although it did show how bad some of the LCDs are at showing black.

Anyone out there with a Pioneer krl37v and a Sony bluray player that can test what the screen saver looks like on their set?

GadgetObsessed · 25-11-2008, 10:55 AM

I ended up returning this set so now I am looking for something else to replace it. (Possibly the Panasonic 37px80.)

Interestingly, given that this set uses a Sharp panel, the uneven backlighting on this set looks very similar to that seen on HDTVTest review for the Sharp LC42b20 here:

Sharp LC42B20E 42" Aquos Full HD 1080p LCD TV Review

IanPM · 01-12-2008, 10:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by garydhooper

I ended up returning this set so now I am looking for something else to replace it. (Possibly the Panasonic 37px80.)

Interestingly, given that this set uses a Sharp panel, the uneven backlighting on this set looks very similar to that seen on HDTVTest review for the Sharp LC42b20 here:

Sharp LC42B20E 42" Aquos Full HD 1080p LCD TV Review

That Panasonic is a great TV, and it's a bargain. I really like their plasmas, even the cheap ones.

GadgetObsessed · 01-12-2008, 3:10 PM

I have ordered the Panasonic 37px80 for £577 inc 5yr guarantee. That means that it costs less than half as much as I paid for the Pioneer.

At that price I can view the panny as a temporary solution i.e. sell it on after a year or two if there is something better around.

jpowell79 · 28-01-2009, 3:15 PM

I purchased the KRL37v on saturday, and have the same issue with the uneven backlight

In fact it was the first thing I noticed once I'd switched it on.

Gutted, considering the amount of money it costs. (£899)Apart from the backlight issue, I can't fault the picture quality.....its stunning!

From an SD sourcse (Standard sky+) i'd give 8/10
From my BlueRay player, i'd give 10/10 !

Even the audio is pretty decent!

I bought it from Richer Sounds in the city, and the one in the shop was playing Ratatouille, and the blacks were miles better than every other LCD panel in the shop!

The sales guy insisted that this is the best 37" LCD in the world, and like I say, apart from the uneven backlight, I have to agree with him.

I phoned Pioneer Support today, to ask them definitively whether or not I just had a faulty TV, or if this was a known issue.....and the guy reassured me that I should NOT expect to see this uneven backlighting, and that I should return it back to Richer Sounds immediately to swap it for another one.

So that's what I'll be doing straight after work tonight.....hopefully its just a bad batch, because I really want to keep this model.....I can't fault anything else with it......it just looks and feels "high-end" and I really want to stick with it.

I'll let you all know how I get on with it

holiver · 28-01-2009, 5:36 PM

Please do! I am keeping an eye on the KRL-37V at the moment.

jpowell79 · 29-01-2009, 11:20 AM

Woo hoo!!
Went back to the Shop last night after work. Hats off to Richer Sounds! They were totally sympathetic, and agreed that I should not have to put up with backlight bleeding on such an expensive tv, and swapped it for me on the spot.
I told them if I had the same problem with this one, that I would bring it back and get a refund, but the guy in the shop told me I was the only person to make a complaint about the krl37v since they'd started selling them, which was quite reassuring.
Anyway, got it home and plugeed it all in and whoo....its fixed!!!
I'm now absolutely delighted with the tv and couldn't fault it! (apart from the price maybe!)
Very happy :-)

Lammy68 · 24-02-2009, 8:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by garydhooper

Today I had a Pioneer krl37v delivered. I have been checking it out some more this evening and have the following problems to report. Firstly while there didn’t seem to be significant bleed on black scenes such as the one below….

Refer to image DSC0047.jpg

....there does seem to be significant bleed when viewing something with a grey background. The example below is displaying the screen saver form my blu ray player. This should be a flat grey with the blu ray logo. As you can see the screen is much brighter everywhere other than the middle.

Refer to images dsc 36 or 43

This is even noticeable with the lights on as can be seen below.

Refer to dsc 45

Additionally there is a strange image retention problem that I have never seen before. When scrolling around the PS3 like menus of the blu ray player there is retention of previous images as can be seen below:

Refer to dsc 0053

If I switch away to another input and back then the image retention disappears as shown below. (So I do not think that this is banding.) See the vertical lighter stripes on the right hand side and the horizontal lighter bar around the "video settings" logo.

Refer to dsc 0055

To confirm that these were problems with the TV and not with the player I connected the bluray to my Sharp 26p50 and did not see either of the above issues

Overall this is one hell of a disappointment. I had seen a demo of the set but did not notice any of these problems. Tomorrow I will be calling Empire Direct to see what they can do. However, I am not sure whether I want to take a chance with another Pioneer or to switch to a completely different model. Perhaps I should just get my money back and try something else.

I have just got the KRL37V and also have the same problem. I dont think its as bad as garydhooper's but you can still notice it.
Not really sure if i should take it back.
If i get a replacement then it might just be the same or even worse.
Other than that the TV is absolutely awsome. I love it.
HD is just stunning and SD is much better than my old CRT.
Its just this damn uneven back light thing.
Does anyone think i should send it back or should i make do?

skyform · 24-02-2009, 9:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sjw

If those pics were from a Sony etc. they would be slated for it...

Actually this looks less annoying then Sonys clouding, imo clouding is way more annyoing then bleeding, you should have seen my W4500 and Z4500, it was awful, both full of problems.

mr_lizard13 · 22-03-2009, 6:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpowell79

Woo hoo!!
Went back to the Shop last night after work. Hats off to Richer Sounds! They were totally sympathetic, and agreed that I should not have to put up with backlight bleeding on such an expensive tv, and swapped it for me on the spot.
I told them if I had the same problem with this one, that I would bring it back and get a refund, but the guy in the shop told me I was the only person to make a complaint about the krl37v since they'd started selling them, which was quite reassuring.
Anyway, got it home and plugeed it all in and whoo....its fixed!!!
I'm now absolutely delighted with the tv and couldn't fault it! (apart from the price maybe!)
Very happy :-)

Good to hear this- I'm seriously considering this set as a replacement for my Samsung 32" Series 4.

I work just round the corner from that Richer Sounds - might pick one up from there soon

Do they have a display model hooked up to a blu-ray player? I'd like to take some discs along to test

HRF1T2007 · 25-03-2009, 8:58 PM

I saw this in comet today and have to admit it looked superb and played around with it coud not see any bleed or clouding on the demo model showing its show reel

i have to choose a replacement tv after 3 faulty screen uniformity/ back light faulty delivered toshibas

anyone say what football looks like on this tv motion wise