[mannix72]

I'm currently in the process of buying a new 40 - 46"TV. Yesterday I went to a store, which luckily for me had the 3 TV's I'm most interested in arranged side by side to each other. The Philips 42pfl9732 , Sony 40X3500 and the Samsung 40F86.

The three where playing a Blu Ray ray signal (through a swithcer) with scenes from Spiderman 3, Casino Royale the PS3 game Motorstorm, and scenes from Destiny Childs live in concert. It was an excellent mix (lucky me again) of highlights from each with dark and bright scenes, action-fast motion and panning sequences. Although not perfect conditions eg.(store lights), it was great in giving someone a good indication of what each set is capable of.

I came to the conclusion after about an hour of observation of each sets strength's and weaknesses.


- Samsung F86: deepest blacks of the 3, vibrant eye catching colors but a tad oversaturated, great with motion and panning and the most 3D feeling of the 3, punchy picture

- Sony X3500: great blacks(almost equal to the Sammy, better shadow detail of the 3, excellent more natural colors, and fantastic with moving/panning scenes.

-Philips 9732: great design and quality, more noise/artifacts of the 3, ambilight is awesome, great color but let down with average blacks and shadow detail.

If anyone would like to comment or mention there impressions of the 3 sets...

[ChrisGgr]

So overally which set would you buy?

[Uma1r]

Im getting the Sony KDL40X3500

[Raitzi]

I ordered 40F86 two weeks ago but i haven't got it yet. Your observations show that i made a good choice.

[the porter]

well if thats the case why on earth is the sony £2500 and the samsung is £1370, there has to be some differences to justify that price tag ,but on your testing there is none, so its seams like a no brainer that the samsung is the way to go unless your filthy rich .

stop press pixmania are doing the 46 f86 for £1305 delivered and theres a £7 code knocking about somewhere only problem is i hate pixmania unless theyve changed and 3% as well going through quidco

[Fordyman]

Where are you buying your TVs from? The 40X3500 is around the £1600 mark.

[the porter]

sorry im refering to the 46 inch sony version

[mannix72]

Originally Posted by CHRISGEO

So overally which set would you buy?

Just returned from a second round at the store.....the Blu Ray demo they had is excellent testing material, replaying 3-4 minutes highlight previews of Spiderman 3, Casino Royal, Motorstorm and Destiny Childs live concert. I must have watched it 100 times......

This store had all the latest sets out at the moment on display, all running the same Blu ray signal (switcher) including latest models from Sharp, Toshiba, LG and lesser/older models from Sony and Samsung. To my eyes, they are all seem 1 generation behind, though cheaper, you can easily see where your extra money is going.


The Philips 9732 disapointed me a little with its black levels (compared always to the Sony & Samsung, it was 1 level below) and its slightly noiser picture(could be due the the switcher). I really wanted to like this set- its a looker with its elegant-sturdy design and slim dimensions, great features, awesome and involving ambilight system, vivid deep colors and shout-it-out screen brightness. But im a sucker for black levels, and I recall scenes of James Bond wearing his tuxido in the casino. It was black, but didn't seem as dense as the other 2. It seemed less 3D and textured. I recall saying to myself " its perfect, but only if it had better blacks". Blacks about equal to last years model that was also on display.

The Samsung F86 really impressed me. Their tv's have come along way from what I remember in the past. All passes by commented on the Sammy's stunning performance. Its a head turner. It's the cheaper of the 3, and you can see and feel that its plastics and not up to the standard of the Sony or Philips, being 1 click below them. But WOW, what blacks this set can produce. It really does make a difference to performance. Due this fact, the evil version of Spiderman in the demo looked awesome, giving a sense of increased texture to his suit and in other scenes. The glossy screen filter it wears does reflect light, a problem I'm sure for some, but boy does it do wonders. It really works well.

The Sony X3500 is a stunning telly. It's design, build and features are top notch. Probably the better of 3 in this respect. The black levels are comparable to the Samsung, but less glossy in a way. It had better shadow details and depth in some scenes. It produced stunning lifelike colors,eg(skintones in Casino Royal) more natural and not oversaturated compared to the Samsung. The Sony and Philips where both about equal to my eyes in brighter scenes compared to the Sammy. The sunrays could almost blind you on these 2 in Casino Royale. Both have and very slight edge in this department. The X3500 excelled in Motion and panning scenes.. whether adoring Spiderman whilst he was swinging, or the crane-chaseing scene in Royal, the Sony was more comfortable in this respect producing less noise and flicker-judder-trail compared to the Philips. The sammy was just about equal to the Sony.

Up until now, I was always a die-hard Plasma fan..... but these 3 TV's have convinced me that LCD technology has finally matured to a point that level of performance and impact these TV's produce is almost staggering. Enough so, that it warrants parting with more hard earned cash, that I'm now moving up a size - the 46" respective models of the Sammy + Sony & the 47" Philips


Honestly, I haven't made up my mind yet. (poor sales guy ) They are all excellent TV's, easily the top 3 models in this moment of time. I guess it all depends on every individuals wants and personal taste. I guess my prob is that I haven't completely decided on mine yet......hope 3rd time round (Monday) I will, cause winter is fast approaching and looking forward to those long winter movie nights in 46 - 47 inch TV land

[ChrisGgr]

Really thank you

[the porter]

thanks for that very informative review.so would you say the sony is worth nearly a grand more than the sammy?

[mannix72]

Originally Posted by the porter

thanks for that very informative review.so would you say the sony is worth nearly a grand more than the sammy?

Is the Sony worth in performance 1 grand more than the Sammy you ask.....in that perspective...definately no...



The purpose of me opening this thread, where to discuss my humble observations of these 3 great sets, regardless of price and with the hope that through this thread, people could, whether it be owners, or people who have had a look at these TV's can express there opinions..

hhhmm . I have been on the market for a new telly for over a year now. I have, through alot of google-ing been able to come up with great prices for these 3 beauties to a point that the price differences between the 3 is almost negligible (to my pockets anyway)....200 Euro or so separating the most expensive Sony, and the cheapest being the Sammy. The Philips obviously fitting snuggly in the middle...

[flygti]

mannix72 - thanks for the great comparison.... tell me - as an ex plasma fan - how do these sets compare to the pana p70z. Same 1080p spec, same true 24p playback, same price as the sammy f86. i havent been able to see them side by side yet.

[rpcruz28]

Originally Posted by mannix72

Is the Sony worth in performance 1 grand more than the Sammy you ask.....in that perspective...definately no...



The purpose of me opening this thread, where to discuss my humble observations of these 3 great sets, regardless of price and with the hope that through this thread, people could, whether it be owners, or people who have had a look at these TV's can express there opinions..

hhhmm . I have been on the market for a new telly for over a year now. I have, through alot of google-ing been able to come up with great prices for these 3 beauties to a point that the price differences between the 3 is almost negligible (to my pockets anyway)....200 Euro or so separating the most expensive Sony, and the cheapest being the Sammy. The Philips obviously fitting snuggly in the middle...

Man...this is the post i was expecting for. Thanks a lot.
Definitely i wouldn't buy a Sony for being so overpriced and ive been watching closely the f86 forum. My choice for the moment is the f86 46". No doubt.

[Bluestraw]

Were you able to adjust the settings to your personal preference on each set, or were they running with the 'defaults'? I imagine turning off a lot of 'enhancements' may make a substantial difference to some of them!

[mannix72]

Originally Posted by flygti

mannix72 - thanks for the great comparison.... tell me - as an ex plasma fan - how do these sets compare to the pana p70z. Same 1080p spec, same true 24p playback, same price as the sammy f86. i havent been able to see them side by side yet.

Firstly, I'm not an "ex plasma fan". I still think, or rather thought plasma technology does, did, some things better than LCD's do, but now, especially with these 3 latest generation models the gap in performance between the 2 technologies has now closed to point where they are now negligable to me. Of course some will argue with facts and figures, using all there high tech equipment to prove there point, which I'm sure are correct when comparing graph charts, but i know have a new respect for LCD's, considering them now at least equal to plasma.
Now, in regards to the panny, its an awesome TV. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think it doesn't support 24p playback, (shame) but, you cant go wrong with any TV panny makes..especially its plasma's. In comparing the P70Z to the F86....um...well...the F86 would probably do better for gaming and everyday TV due to its brighter screen, but the panny may edge out the sammy when it's time for movies....

[Bloemkool]

Originally Posted by mannix72

Just returned from a second round at the

The Philips 9732 disapointed me a little with its black levels (compared always to the Sony & Samsung, it was 1 level below) and its slightly noiser picture(could be due the the switcher).

Here someone else also looking for a new 40" LCD tv.
I was looking for the Samsung 40F86 or the Philips 42" 9632
The 9732 and 9632 share the same panel.
Though i haven't seen the Samsung F86 yet i say the Philips 42 9632 today next to the 46M86 and i saw the same thing: The Philips looks great, but the black is not as dark as the black on the Samsung.
So i guess the F86 does the same or even a better job.
I'm going for the F86 instead of the Philips. Altough the Philips has the better looks and ambilight: picture quality is the ultimate thing i'm looking for.

[mannix72]

Originally Posted by Bluestraw

Were you able to adjust the settings to your personal preference on each set, or were they running with the 'defaults'? I imagine turning off a lot of 'enhancements' may make a substantial difference to some of them!

I have been going to this store for years to check out latest releases from time to time , and the store owner is a bit of TV geek, like most of us here , so he's gone through forums and tried different posted calibrations for each set. I did adjust to suit my preferences where ever possible.

We did try different settings, turning on and off enhancements, but honestly, if you don't take the set home for a couple of weeks, its impossible to really decide what's best with these enhancements and when to use them or not.

All in all, I think we both gave each set the equal oppurtunity to show its legs .This is the reason I'm such having difficulty deciding you see..

[mannix72]

Originally Posted by Bloemkool

Here someone else also looking for a new 40" LCD tv.
I was looking for the Samsung 40F86 or the Philips 42" 9632
The 9732 and 9632 share the same panel.
Though i haven't seen the Samsung F86 yet i say the Philips 42 9632 today next to the 46M86 and i saw the same thing: The Philips looks great, but the black is not as dark as the black on the Samsung.
So i guess the F86 does the same or even a better job.
I'm going for the F86 instead of the Philips. Altough the Philips has the better looks and ambilight: picture quality is the ultimate thing i'm looking for.

I agree with your point that the F86 does a better job compared to the M86. It's not much in it, but it's a little more refined and capable during action scenes I thought.

Did you find the Philips a little bland and flat in dark scenes also?

[hollyjoint]

How is the image of philips 9632 at SD (480i)?

mannix72, thanks for the great review.
I´m choosing a LCD TV for over a year but i´ll buy for sure in this month - i´m waiting for the new x3000 series from Sony wich will appear (I hope) in the next few days in Portugal.
I was deciding between the Philips and Sony. Your review confirm the quality of 40x3500... And i´m going for the Sony, but the 46. Besides the quality of the set, the design is simply spectacular for me, Philips ans Sansung doesn´t even get near, and that is something that you have to pay also!
I´ll wait for your review of the 46x3500. Thanks in advance!

[mannix72]

Originally Posted by Rickytec

mannix72, thanks for the great review.
I´m choosing a LCD TV for over a year but i´ll buy for sure in this month - i´m waiting for the new x3000 series from Sony wich will appear (I hope) in the next few days in Portugal.
I was deciding between the Philips and Sony. Your review confirm the quality of 40x3500... And i´m going for the Sony, but the 46. Besides the quality of the set, the design is simply spectacular for me, Philips ans Sansung doesn´t even get near, and that is something that you have to pay also!
I´ll wait for your review of the 46x3500. Thanks in advance!

Thank you for your kind words..

If design is what your after, then once you see the X3500, you'll fall in love. It really is stunning. Obviously a step up compared to last years model X2000. Less plastic, and alot more elegant. Don't disregard the appearance of the Philips until you seem them side by side. She's is a beauty. Don't take my word for it.I look forward to your observations when you get the chance to see them both in the flesh

[mannix72]

Originally Posted by hollyjoint

How is the image of philips 9632 at SD (480i)?

I can't comment on quality of either set with SD signal. We where running a 1080P signal which is great to see what the sets are really capable off. Of course SD signal is just as important. If anyone has any observations, especially owners of either set, it would be greatly appreciated.

[Bloemkool]

Originally Posted by mannix72

I agree with your point that the F86 does a better job compared to the M86. It's not much in it, but it's a little more refined and capable during action scenes I thought.

Did you find the Philips a little bland and flat in dark scenes also?

Indeed. They were running some promotion video with lot's of different stuff on both tv's which made comparison very easy.
They showed nature parts with green and black and on the philips the black was a lighter then on the samsung. This was always visible, also in fast scenes.
In other stores you see demo's where they show a lot of slow motion scenes which is really stupid. As if you're watching movies in slomotion at home

I like the Philips frame better and it's 42" but when it comes down to picture quality i liked the samsung better for it's blacks.
As far as picture quality itself and artifacts i couldn't see any on both sets.

[flygti]

Mannix... I thought the PZ70 handled 24p ? My dilemna is to go for the F86 and risk the poor quality issues or go for the PZ70 and probably get a good'un first time. My only concern about the Pany was the lack of hdmi 1.3 support.

[mannix72]

Originally Posted by Bloemkool

Indeed. They were running some promotion video with lot's of different stuff on both tv's which made comparison very easy.
They showed nature parts with green and black and on the philips the black was a lighter then on the samsung. This was always visible, also in fast scenes.
In other stores you see demo's where they show a lot of slow motion scenes which is really stupid. As if you're watching movies in slomotion at home

I like the Philips frame better and it's 42" but when it comes down to picture quality i liked the samsung better for it's blacks.
As far as picture quality itself and artifacts i couldn't see any on both sets.

Running a Blu Ray signal with a switcher through 15 or so sets, I'm sure artifacts a bound to pop up...Nice to know that you didn't notice any artifacts. I was little concerned that maybe it was the sets...Puts my mind at ease now)

[mannix72]

Originally Posted by flygti

Mannix... I thought the PZ70 handled 24p ? My dilemna is to go for the F86 and risk the poor quality issues or go for the PZ70 and probably get a good'un first time. My only concern about the Pany was the lack of hdmi 1.3 support.

I wouldn't say the F86 had poor build quality, it was actually good, but the Sony and Philips are 1 step ahead on this matter.

Again, I'm not sure if the panny accepts 24p signals, prob better to look up a forum to confirm this. I guess 1.3 support isn't that much of an issue now, since there aren't many players that support it yet anyway, but if future proofing is on your list then it's up to you if the benefits are important to you or not.

[rpcruz28]

Mannix, is it worth £1000 more to pay for a Sony??? I really think for those money is not a problem, yes. for 1000 more you can buy another 40f86.

[j3ff3]

its not £1000 difference between the two. its more like £600. The 40f86 comes in at around £1000 and the x3500 at £1600

[Bloemkool]

Originally Posted by mannix72

Running a Blu Ray signal with a switcher through 15 or so sets, I'm sure artifacts a bound to pop up...Nice to know that you didn't notice any artifacts. I was little concerned that maybe it was the sets...Puts my mind at ease now)

Well i don't know whether it was a Blu Ray signal, could be.
It looked better then normal DVD but it defenately was splitted 15 times.
That was noticable in the picture because you saw a bit of grain or whatever it's called, it's a bit hard to write down in English.
But that wasn't noticable in other stores where they were running an WMV HD demo on the M86.
So apart of that i tried to look for weird things around people, moving objects, or just the picture when the camera pans from one side to the other.
I kept watching for at least 15 minutes trying to see weird things but i didn't.
And a saw the demo at least twice.

When everything works out i will order the 40F86 this week, and when it's on stock i will also have it this week.
Then i will post some pictures and i can answer questions.
I don't have a blu ray, ps3 or hd dvd player though. But when i get the correct cable i will hook up my pc and run some HD content :-)

About the Sony X3500, when you have the opportunity to see it in action: go see it.
A friend of mine has a 40X2000 and if i had the money i think i would go for the X3500.
It's the best LCD TV i've seen, which also gives a great standard cable signal picture.
The X2000 already has great black levels, i would say better then the Philips 9632.

[Twin Turbo]

This is exactly the thread I've been waiting for! Thanks Mannix!

I too will be in the market for a 46" LCD, and given the online prices of the F86 and the x3500 are relatively similar, I was wondering which would be the one to go for.
From what I've read so far:
The Samsung has the deeper blacks.
The Sony has the greater detail.
The Sony looks/feels better built.

So for me, it looks like the Sony is the one to get. Detail is all important in picture quality, and given it's blacks are almost on a par with the F86 (and probably excellent in their own right), it seems like the best set...even if it is the most expensive!

I still look forward to your next viewing tomorow though!!