[Ramspeed]

Hello everyone.

Lots of interest in these sets. The upcoming V series has a thread so I thought the new S should have one too. They're out now!!

So if you have one or have viewed one please post your findings here. I'll start the ball rolling.

Just viewed the 26" at ASK electronics on Tott Crt Road. They gave me full access to the settings and displayed Freeview and an HD feed.

Freeview. Well, it's Freeview isn't it? Not exactly mind-blowing. But the Sony aquitted itself very well indeed. As good as any LCD I've seen.

HD. Superb. But it should be.

What's terrific about this set is the overall PQ. Natural colour, excellent blacks, excellent motion handling. The Bravia Engine is good stuff. And a wealth of settings too. Almost every nuance of the picture can be adjusted to taste via the new (and very neat) menu system.

The bottom line is I thought the picture quality was at least the equal of my V32. And better than everything else in the shop. I have no brand loyalty. Just my honest opinion. In particular - significantly better than the new Panny LX60 next to it (and a damn sight better looking!).

The best thing about it? The price. It was £820 in the shop for the 26". Congrats to Sony. It's a winner.

[David Mackenzie]

I'm glad to hear BRAVIA Engine is up to the task! I was a little worried for a second.

Can't wait for my 32" V (don't mean to derail the thread though)!

[Yannis]

Great to hear that Sony has done a good job with the new S series. It's one of the sets i 'm considering to buy. Probably i will wait to see the new V series also before deciding.

[drljames]

Am off to my local Sony Centre to compare new and old S models and compare to old V.

I've seen the new 26" S-series in action today at Selfridges in Manchester's Trafford Centre, which is currently the only shop within the centre that has one on display. Its aerial feed wasn't the best either, with occasional mosaic effects visible on some digital Freeview channels, but what was surprising was how well the picture held up in quality terms despite this handicap, which must mean that the BRAVIA Engine's pixel block noise reduction is pretty effective at doing its job.

Compared with a Panasonic TX26LXD60 nearby - and probably the rest of the LCD TV's on display there - the Sony's picture was sharper and had a noticeably wider dynamic range; the others were largely showing the same TV channel (BBC1) but they all looked rather subdued compared with the Sony. A cheaper JVC model nearby (not the best comparison admittedly) reduced fine detail such as strands of hair to just a blur when a person's head moved, but the same detail was maintained by the Sony during similar movement. Overall a most impressive result for the Sony, although it wasn't exactly a scientific test under ideal conditions.

I had a quick play with the controls when the sales assistant wasn't looking; the menus look smart and have a blue background, including the Freeview EPG which is directly selectable from the main menu. The only slight disappointment was the sound quality: it was OK but nothing special, though adjustment of the tone controls will probably help here.

[JohnKen]

Just to add my views - and reasons for buying. Though I've still to have it installed - on Monday 27th.

[I've also posted in other related threads: New Sony range V or cheaper S? and one I started on "Full HD" panels: Sharp LC-37GE1E 1920x 1080 panel - anything similar around for May HD launch?]

My reasons for buying were:
"Certainty of getting one before May 22nd [being delivered on 27th April], price relative to my [initial] idea of a getting the "Full HD" Sharp LC-37GE1E, and size- just not sure the 37" would work for my lounge. Primarily though, I think buy buying what seems the best [others will have different views] of the current 2006 models, will still mean that in perhaps 5 years when its all settled down - I could upgrade to what will be, by then, a huge range of affordable 1080p panels and have a clearer view of whether the bigger sizes will work for us. I paid more than the cheaper web prices but get 3 years insurance, "lifetime supprt from the Store", and professional delivery - and my large and heavy standard TV moved upstairs for me."

So basically - having puzzled over the various threads on AV forums and looked at many of the newer models - I felt the shop service [Sony Centre Carlisle] was excellent and well informed, and that, to put it bluntly, the model was the best SD processing I'd seen and it looked just stunning in HD. It also had good connectivity [bar the one HDMI] - but enough for present needs.

And though I pondered about waiting for the new V series - I felt the colour creation upgrade - the only difference - was not likely to be worth the extra £400 [especially since I'd just bought the Sky HD box. I'll also be getting £100 off for buying siny and the box.

So - hopefully I'll post again after the 27th when the panel is installed, with my views - I'm sure confirming my decision.

[smilodon]

Just one question regarding these sets ...
I noticed on Sony's website that the 26" S Series does not have the S PVA panel but everything 32" and above does

Why is this ?

[David Mackenzie]

Because the Sony/Samsung plant doesn't make SPVA panels of that size - wish there was a better reason but that's it!

[PPPPPP]

Originally Posted by drljames

Am off to my local Sony Centre to compare new and old S models and compare to old V.

Did the same yesterday - the new S is pretty close to the old V - and very good value for money.

[drljames]

I thought the new S produced noticable better colours, it seemed crisper too.

The new S dont clean up the image in any way (only the Vs do that?)

[JohnKen]

This Thread: Sony BRAVIA LCD TV FAQ has misleading information about the new Sony Bravia KDL32S2010U - and the table of features for the S2000u series needs to be corrected. It says the model does not have the Bravia processing engine [it does] and it uses the S-PVA Panel [it does]. It is only the 26" that does not have the S-PVA panel etc.

As posted above the full details in the Sony brochure and website confirm the full scope of the S2000 series models above 26". Full details here:http://www.sony.co.uk/view/ShowArtic...site=odw_en_GB

Features lists:

• Available in 26”, 32”, 40” and 46” screens
• Powered by the BRAVIA ENGINE for outstanding colour and clarity
• Next generation S-PVA LCD panel for a unique and unequalled viewing experience*
• Super wide 178° viewing angle means a great view from almost anywhere*
• Faster response time for smoother sports and action sequences*
• Incredible 1300:1 contrast for stunning clarity*
• HD Ready with HDMI™
• PC connectivity
• Integrated Digital Terrestrial Tuner
• Built-in pure digital SRS Trusurround XT sound
• Ultra slim and space saving; 9.4cm – 10.3cm deep (depending on screen size)
• Wall mountable

*Available in all 32" and above S-Series models.

UPDATE: This information has now been corrected by Lyris in the Sony Bravia LCD FAQ

[drljames]

When I visited the Sony Centre (Wolverhampton), they only seemed to have the 2010 colour. I asked if the came in any other colours.. was told no!

Was expecting more from a Sony Centre!

[David Mackenzie]

Went to Curry's out at Braehead today and found the new 40" Sony S. It was side beside the new Samsung LE40R73BD (is this the "bordeaux" range or did I get that wrong?) so I could give some comparison. This is lucky because this is probably the nearest competitor (in this screen size)

Both were showing the RF-distributed signal so it was a tough job for both of the TVs.

Remote

Sony have changed the design of the remotes. Below is a picture of what the new V-series remote should look like (it's the Japanese one). The S-Series' one is the same only with less buttons and it's all grey. Personally I think it's a step down looks wise, it feels like the remote I got with a cheap Toshiba CRT a few years ago and it's fatter than Sony's Freeview receiver's remote.

That is where my criticism ends though.

The Samsung's remote is much nicer than the Sony's and a huge leap over last years' chunky thing. It fits in your hand nicely and looks good. It's all black but thankfully it's a matt finish (correct term?) instead of the shiney stuff the TV is made out of (more on this later). Some of the buttons are small rectangles and kinda wiggly though which'll make them a bit hard to press.

Menus / Picture Tweaks / Usability

On pressing Menu I saw that sure enough, "WEGA GATE", Sony's new menu system, is finally here in Europe. A silly thing to get excited about, but it's a good sign that we're finally getting up to date stuff.

Scrolling through the menus I at first panicked. "Where's the backlight adjustment!" - don't worry, it's there. It's FIRST thing on the list of picture tweaks instead of near the bottom where I'm used to, that's what threw me off.

All of the little tweaks that were on the USA/Australian/Japanese models that Sony of Europe seemed to cut out before, like Overscan and Y/C Select, are now on the European model, with the localised names "Picture Area" and "Auto S-Video" respectively

(Auto S-Video: this is for if you have an S-Video as well as a Composite cable plugged into the set of A/V inputs. On the older models, to view the video from the Composite cable, you had to pull out the S-Video cable. This lets you achieve the same thing without reaching behind the back of the TV. Again, nothing too important, but Sony of Europe not including it was baffling).

From what I gather the overscan adjustment does not let you completely defeat the overscan (same as the US model). But it does let you choose from 0, -1 and -2 I think (or was it 0, +1 and +2? I can't remember).

Oh, and on the old European models, you could only tweak the picture settings for the "Custom" mode in normal usage. You had to use this little tip I came up with to edit "Vivid" mode, for example. On the American versions, all 3 picture modes were always editable. As with everything else, it's the same on the European model now. You can edit everything except for the "Advanced Picture Options" in all the modes. The Advanced options are editable in the Custom mode.

The new Sonys also have 3 options for the Power Saving mode: Off, Low and High.

So, the "Eurotrashing" has stopped The only technical inferiority to the US models now is having interlaced-only RGB SCART sockets in place of some extra Component ones. A bit annoying but nothing a switch-box won't solve, the European ones have 1x Component in. I'll let that slide now because I understand it's partly a Localisation issue. (Give us two next time though, and two HDMI )

The Samsung's menus are the same as last years' only the remote control IR sensor is improved. It responds better to remote commands now so tweaking the picture isn't as big a chore. For example on last years' LE32R41B I used, decreasing the Sharpness control by 20 notches meant 20 presses of the remote control to make it happen a good speed. You can just hold the button down now - makes tweaking the picture a lot easier.

Also I'm glad that Samsung have given the user more control over the backlight under the "Power Saving" mode which i think has 3 settings, Low Medium and High, but I could be wrong there because I spent more time with the Sony.

The picture

At first I was a bit surprised because the Samsung looked as if it was producing better blacks. I found this wasn't the case though, what was actually happening was that Currys' poor quality in-store loop had been telecined (telecine = film to video transfer) poorly and as a result had a sort of blue light shining behind the picture. The Sony was re-producing this faithfully to the source (a good thing, because at home you'd never have material that had been transferred this poorly), whereas the Samsung's DNIe engine was artificially boosting the contrast so high that the subtle blue tint was gone from the picture, as were most of the details in the black areas. I don't know if this can be gotten rid of by tweaking or not, but the Sony's contrast was whacked up to FULL and there was no dark details disappearing from the picture - no "black holes". Very impressive. Disclaimer: I didn't spend enough time with the Samsung to find the Dynamic Contrast and turn it off (if it was on). So if you were considering the Samsung don't knock it off your list just yet because of this, not without giving it a look over first anyway.

Samsung still don't let you turn DNIe off. I left the store with my mind made up: DNIe is a joke and the fact that the user is allowed to see a split-screen "demo" of DNIe off on the left and on on the right, with the DNIe-less side looking BETTER, is ridiculous. DNIe applies a lot of edge enhancement. This made the in-store loop look (even more) terrible. It brought out all the noise and dot crawl from the image. Samsung seriously need to let the user turn DNIe off because it really isn't good at all.

The Sony's renderng of the shoddy RF loop was honestly no worse than you'd get from a CRT. Any objectionable noise reduction can be turned off completely. You get the feeling that BRAVIA Engine restores the picture to as close to what it would have looked like before it was sent down a shoddy RF cable whereas the other manufacturers' clean-up systems try to "improve" the picture beyond that and end up making a mess of it. As usual, any "messing around" with the picture that the Sony LCD does is very conservative.

From adjusting the Sharpness, it looks like it is possible to have NO edge enhancement on the Sony but I'll tell you for sure some other time. Take that with a pinch of salt because it's kind of hard to tell on the poor quality RF loop the store was using.

The viewing angle on both was good. Far better than my old 2004 LCD WEGA.

Looks

The Sony one looks great. It was the black version (2010U I think?) Not quite as nice as the V-Series but nice to look at nonetheless. It looks a lot better in the flesh that it does in pictures, I'm not sure why this is.

Sorry to say it but the Samsung one looks cheap. The entire TV is made out of that shiney black stuff - even the back. Imagine reaching around the back to plug in some equipment and pulling away and getting the thing covered in sweaty finger-prints. I didn't touch it so I don't know if it really collects finger prints or not but I'd imagine so?

Conclusion
All in all, very impressed by the new Sony S-Series. From just looking at the picture, I couldn't find a single thing wrong with it. Pity that the remote doesn't feel as nice as the older models but that's really the only thing I can think of. I'm not saying it's definitely as 100% perfect as the technology allows, every TV will end up having it's strange quirks - but nothing stuck out at me which is very promising.

Oh, and also regarding my Samsung criticisms, do remember that the Sony ones' RRP was about 400 pounds more (worth it if you're into getting the closest to perfection you can get at that price range, like me).

I honestly don't know how I'm going to wait for the new V-Series model. Early May can't come soon enough!

[Mr-Bananas]

Great news, I have just ordered a 40" Series.

Can't wait !!!!!!!!!!

[RunDMC]

Originally Posted by Lyris

From adjusting the Sharpness, it looks like it is possible to have NO edge enhancement on the Sony but I'll tell you for sure some other time. Take that with a pinch of salt because it's kind of hard to tell on the poor quality RF loop the store was using.

So Lyris, are you implying that with the limited testing you have done, the new Sony S series (and by implication, the V too) do NOT have the edge enhancement bug, as featured in your other thread?

Originally Posted by Lyris

Conclusion
All in all, very impressed by the new Sony S-Series. From just looking at the picture, I couldn't find a single thing wrong with it. Pity that the remote doesn't feel as nice as the older models but that's really the only thing I can think of. I'm not saying it's as 100% perfect as the technology allows, every TV has it's nuances - but nothing stuck out at me.

Me too. I had decided on the WLT66, but the natural PQ of the Sony S, coupled with the apparently vast tweaking you can do, has swayed me (and I have always had Sony CRTs until this point). I can forgo the extra HDMI. Now may just wait a few weeks to see if prices come down a bit...

[David Mackenzie]

So Lyris, are you implying that with the limited testing you have done, the new Sony S series (and by implication, the V too) do NOT have the edge enhancement bug, as featured in your other thread?

From the very, very, very limited testing, yes. But on an RF feed that lousy it's almost impossible to tell.

[Yannis]

Lyris could that be the S series remote? It says "26S2000" on the image's tag.

[Yannis]

I just found in Sony's site that the remote of the S2000 is RM-ED005 (whatever that means). The remote of the V2000 wasn't listed.

[David Mackenzie]

Ah, thanks for that. I assumed that was the V's remote because it has some black on it, like the V-Series TVs. I also found the picture of that remote on the Japanese V-Series page so maybe it's the same one, or Sony aren't sure themselves.

The European remote is the same basic idea but is more plain. Maybe Sony of Europe are saving money on black paint and are downgrading the remote controls now instead of the TVs. Sweet deal

Have been trying to decide between a panasonic lxd60 and sumsung le26R74 - but it now looks like the Sony KDL26S2010 is a much better option.

Does anyone know when they are going to be availble to buy in the UK? As I can find any info/retailers online at the moment to get one.

Thanks for your help

Brad

A variety of UK online (and high street) retailers now have the 26" S-series (and larger) in stock:

http://www.pricerunner.co.uk/sound-a.../580387/prices (for the KDL26S2010U)

I have also considered the Panasonic 26LXD60 (which was my second choice), the Samsung LE26R74 and the JVC 26LXD7, but the Sony wins by a fair margin and I will be buying one shortly (possibly from John Lewis with an Empire Direct pricematch). And I have seen the remote control; it may be grey and chunky (roughly the same as my old Sony VCR handset) but the large buttons are very easy to use and the size means that it won't easily slip down that gap in the sofa

[smilodon]

Im looking at the 26" too RGB Direct have it for £772.00 but the specs the show are wrong eg they say it has a s pva panel, 1300:1 contrast ratio sony have confirmed it dont has have other members here

Originally Posted by smilodon

Im looking at the 26" too RGB Direct have it for £772.00 but the specs the show are wrong eg they say it has a s pva panel, 1300:1 contrast ratio sony have confirmed it dont has have other members here

Went down to Currys and had a look at the 26". Very impressed.

The spec card on the TV listed it as an SPVA panel etc.

Is this not correct?

[smilodon]

Im not sure as im confused as anyone i have rung a few retailers and they have said the specs they have were given to them by Sony Europe

[HHGTTG]

Am I right in assuming that these are yet even newer 'S' and 'V' models to replace those introduced only some 6 months ago?

How do the model numbers of these 'new' panels differ from the old ones using a 32" LCD as an example - for instance I noted down months ago that I should, then, have been looking at a KDL S32A12 and so now what does that evolve into?
Can someone please eludcidate?

JL have the new S series on their website for £1295 for the 32 inch model

What companies will JL pricematch with ???

[David Mackenzie]

Yes, that's correct, the Summer 2005 models are outdated now.

All info about the model numbers over at the AVF BRAVIA FAQ Thread: Sony BRAVIA LCD TV FAQ

Does anyone know when they are going to be availble to buy in the UK? As I can find any info/retailers online at the moment to get one.

They've started shipping to retailers. Just had a look at one today at the Glasgow Camcorder Centre (friendly guys). They're checking for me (well OK, for you guys, I'm getting a V) whether or not they support 1:1 over VGA.

[Ramspeed]

"JL have the new S series on their website for £1295 for the 32 inch model

What companies will JL pricematch"

Empiredirect are prob your best bet. Usually very cheap and lots of people have done price matches with JL using them.

[Mr-Bananas]

John Lewis dont match internet prices.

They will not match Empire Direct.

Who do they normally price match with ???