[soldierboy001]

Originally Posted by Joe Fernand

If you can't/don’t want to differentiate between a big box 'store' with hundreds of TV's lined up vs. your local specialist with one or two hand-picked displays properly calibrated under controlled lighting then yes go for something that 'looks' great in dynamic mode in a brightly lit barn with who knows what signal distribution showing RF, SD and HD feeds side by side and go for the cheapest set that’s the right size for you!

Again the purpose of this thread (as started by Stuart back in Dec. 2009) was to highlight that LCD TV's with LED Back or Edge lighting where being pushed as something revolutionary (not just a change in light source) and folk were being asked to pay a premium for them; and here we are 2 years on and folk are still saying 'I purchased an LED TV'!

Joe

PS And just to keep up the Smart Alec bit - at least Panasonic know they are selling LED LCD - Technologies for the LED LCD | 2011 EU | VIERA | Plasma&LCD TV | Panasonic Global

In essence 90% of the population could not care one iota about wether it is a RADICAL new technology or just a better picture, one could find it hard to deny that LED ( full or edge lit ) is not better than CCRT lit TV's and if you know anything looking at the specifcations will tell you it is not last years TV with the addition of LED. Improvments go well beyond the lighting of the picture we see.
going back to the 90% you can go into many a friends house and think to yourself how do they watch that? It all goes back to the saying " TV is only radio with pictures "

[Trollslayer]

here we are 2 years on and folk are still saying 'I purchased an LED TV'!

Joe

Joe, part of the reason is that TLAs work (Three Letter Ac ronyms) work.
How many five or six letter acronyms are in common use?
Also, most of the customers don't care how the TV works they just want shiny.

[Joe Fernand]

Add ‘it needs to be ultra-thin’ to the party – no matter that you then have very limited connectivity on the Display, a real hassle getting connectors that will fit behind the display and poor sound as there is no room for decent speakers.

Joe

[Trollslayer]

This also results in overheating, shortened life etc..
I have some low noise fans on the back of my plasma to extend the life (Akasa run at 6V so they are inaudible).

[soldierboy001]

Originally Posted by Joe Fernand

Add ‘it needs to be ultra-thin’ to the party – no matter that you then have very limited connectivity on the Display, a real hassle getting connectors that will fit behind the display and poor sound as there is no room for decent speakers.

Joe

So 4 x HDMI, USB, ethernet, VAG, and various phono sockets one for attaching external sound speakers for people that do require better sound is limited connectivity is it.
Not everybody wants to fit them on the wall and if you do you can spend a bit more on your wall mount that will allow you to swing away from the wall to get easy access. Personally from what I have seen most people put the set to high on the wall anyway and must get stiff necks, I have mine on a piece of furniture that allows my set to be at eye level when I sit in my viewing position.

[soldierboy001]

Originally Posted by Trollslayer

This also results in overheating, shortened life etc..
I have some low noise fans on the back of my plasma to extend the life (Akasa run at 6V so they are inaudible).

Bearings and fan disturbing air equal noise not voltage.

[HaRd2BeAr]

Originally Posted by Joe Fernand

Add ‘it needs to be ultra-thin’ to the party – no matter that you then have very limited connectivity on the Display, a real hassle getting connectors that will fit behind the display and poor sound as there is no room for decent speakers.

Joe

I have to disagree on the sound front, generally peaking thin = poor sound. But my Sony as more than impressed me. To the point where i don't feel the need to always have my amp on.

Aaron

[HaRd2BeAr]

Originally Posted by Trollslayer

This also results in overheating, shortened life etc..
I have some low noise fans on the back of my plasma to extend the life (Akasa run at 6V so they are inaudible).

Plasma yes, but my tv gives off no heat whatsoever.

[Joe Fernand]

Yes a few slim line LCD will have OK sound and yes a few have multiple HDMI - many more don't and most have very limited connectivity for legacy kit with SCART, YUV, S-Video.

Installing Flat Panel TV's too high on your wall has been a problem since day one when interior designers and marketing directors started to stick them above mantles because they 'look' good up there!

Joe

[Trollslayer]

Originally Posted by soldierboy001

Bearings and fan disturbing air equal noise not voltage.

No, by running them at a reduced voltage they run slower which in turn reduces noise.

[soldierboy001]

Originally Posted by Trollslayer

No, by running them at a reduced voltage they run slower which in turn reduces noise.

The windings determine the speed of an electric motor not voltage and if you run it slower it would not cool efficiently, but could be made more efficient by changing the pitch which would increase noise or increasing the size of blade which would again increase noise.

[DJ Ovengloves]

Yes and a lower voltage through said windings in a fan designed to be controlled by voltage equals slower speed leading to..wait for it, less noise It's been the basis of PC fan control for yonks (and early radio control cars before that).

Edit:- Without reading the whole thread, can I summise you've got an "LED" TV and don't like people saying it's not an LED TV? If that's the case, if you're happy with it, may I suggest you move along?

Originally Posted by soldierboy001

The windings determine the speed of an electric motor not voltage and if you run it slower it would not cool efficiently, but could be made more efficient by changing the pitch which would increase noise or increasing the size of blade which would again increase noise.

[soldierboy001]

Originally Posted by DJ Ovengloves

Yes and a lower voltage through said windings in a fan designed to be controlled by voltage equals slower speed leading to..wait for it, less noise It's been the basis of PC fan control for yonks (and early radio control cars before that).

Edit:- Without reading the whole thread, can I summise you've got an "LED" TV and don't like people saying it's not an LED TV? If that's the case, if you're happy with it, may I suggest you move along?

Wattage controls speed as in car fan for heating and aircondition operation, and yes I do have an LED illuminated TV and if you read my initial thread you would realise I knew this when I bought said TV.

[DJ Ovengloves]

Originally Posted by soldierboy001

Wattage controls speed as in car fan for heating and aircondition operation, and yes I do have an LED illuminated TV and if you read my initial thread you would realise I knew this when I bought said TV.

Wow, you really like digging that hole don't you - have a tiny think how wattage is calculated, also then have a further think how it could be controlled (clue, it's really easy to control voltage and work with a fixed current). Why don't you go watch your TV and getting all cross people are "bad mouthing" LED (which they aren't BTW), I'm in the market for one myself as I fancy 3D and LED backlight TV's draw less power.

Seriously, let it go!

[soldierboy001]

Originally Posted by DJ Ovengloves

Wow, you really like digging that hole don't you - have a tiny think how wattage is calculated, also then have a further think how it could be controlled (clue, it's really easy to control voltage and work with a fixed current). Why don't you go watch your TV and getting all cross people are "bad mouthing" LED (which they aren't BTW), I'm in the market for one myself as I fancy 3D and LED backlight TV's draw less power.

Seriously, let it go!

OK DJ, You win it was just a wind up to see who would say what because trolley said that because they (His fans) were inaudible because they were 6 volts and I said voltage does not make noise. I expected a lot more responses than I got so it seems that people are not interested in this link anymore or they don't know the difference between volts/watts and amps or what they do the same as they don't care what LED means so long as they get a picture and it can be hung on the wall. And yes they are LED tv's as well as they are LCD tv's. So long as the people are happy with what they buy does it really matter to them?
Now lets leave it to those that it does matter too, only trouble is those people seem to be the ones on here doing all the talking and they know what LED means!!!!!!!!!

[Curly99]

ok, if all you want to do is argue the finer points then please do so somewhere else, it's not fair on other members/readers of this thread to monopolise could you just agree to disagree.

Curly

[Joe Fernand]

I see we are a step closer to actually seeing LED TV's in the market place - LG to Show ‘World’s Largest’ OLED, 3D TVs at CES - CE Pro Article from CE Pro

Joe

[MatthewTurner83]

Originally Posted by Joe Fernand

Installing Flat Panel TV's too high on your wall has been a problem since day one when interior designers and marketing directors started to stick them above mantles because they 'look' good up there!

Finally someone who agrees with me. I think TV's mounted anything higher than eye level are ridiculous. Tell me if I am wrong here but the last time I checked my eyes and most of the populations tend naturally want to sit in the middle and view something slightly lower. Viewing something at that height for extented periods of time generally gives me neck and/or headache. If it doesnt give you something in the short term I can foresee issues arising in the future.

I guess most folk missed that health and safety tip about setting up your work station and ensuring that the monitor is at or just below eye level!

[Joe Fernand]

We've pointed out the potential problem to clients who insisted we go ahead anyway and on a few occasions have been called back to remove, make good and reposition because as advised they found it uncomfortable to view a Display positioned too high on a wall!

Joe

[fiesata11]

I purchased a Panasonic 42 inch LED in August 2011 and am glad I did

Picture quality is excellent, sound is good due to larger speaker pods at the base (out of view) and it has numerous inputs more than I could ever need - but the big selling point for me was the power consumption typically just 50 watts and as our TV is on most of the day it's a really money saver

It also has internet,USB playback and HDD recording and a 5 year warranty I might buy another in the future but I'll wait until OLED technology is reasonably priced

I couldn't go for Plasma - just too greedy with expensive electricity

[soldierboy001]

Originally Posted by fiesata11

I purchased a Panasonic 42 inch LED in August 2011 and am glad I did

Picture quality is excellent, sound is good due to larger speaker pods at the base (out of view) and it has numerous inputs more than I could ever need - but the big selling point for me was the power consumption typically just 50 watts and as our TV is on most of the day it's a really money saver

It also has internet,USB playback and HDD recording and a 5 year warranty I might buy another in the future but I'll wait until OLED technology is reasonably priced

I couldn't go for Plasma - just too greedy with expensive electricity

whilst I do not wish to rain on your parade as I own a brilliant Panasonic Viera I have just been on the Panasonic site and the lowest power consumption model uses 109 watts whilst on and 30 watts in stand by and you only get HDD via USB, still very good figures.

[cruiser27]

regarding led technology:
i just got my first flat panel tv, an led lcd. enjoying it, but i had a question on backlight and bleed

is it true lcd tvs need to be backlit in some way because they do not produce their own light like crt technology
so with led lightning it's either at the edge (corners) or in a matrix right across the tv?

so it would make sense that you will see some sort of glow on any tv that is lit like this. it's just a 'feature' of this technology. something that will be seen to varying degrees but unavoidable with most sets?

if the answer is yes it will make me feel better about the glow i can see in dark scenes when the lights are out

i don't want to think there is a perfect tv out there when it's highly unlikely, and take it back dozens of times to eventually give up and get a refund like i've read in some threads

thanks

[trimmysheen]

Even mostly the LED TV's are a lil bit expensive, I love this technology on TV's. My favorite one is the Samsung UE469090 with Full HD, 200 Hz, Smart TV, CI+, 3D and his great design.

[Joe Fernand]

Hello cruiser72

LCD TV’s do require some form of light source – before the advent of LED they all used mini CCFL tubes; just like those horrible overhead lights in many an office!

LED LCD TV’s use Edge or Full array positioned LED’s to illuminate behind the LCD panel – most Full Array use ‘local dimming’ to give more precise control of the illumination; though that then makes them slightly thicker than the Edge-lit units.

Uniformity of illumination is a problem and some models are better than others and yes you can see variances between one sample and another!

Joe

[HHGTTG]

One question that I can't seem to to find the answer to by Googling!
I was, just before Christmas, looking at a lot of these newer thin LED sets in my local superstore and noticed that because of their construction, I suppose, did not have any female scart sockets. How, then, is one supposed to connect equipment that only has this method of ouput?
I presume there are adapters available but what do they convert the Scart feed into, is it S-video, Composite, HDMI or what? Can you give me a link to these converters?

My current TV is now almost 5 years old (how time flies). It is a Sony Bravia 32" V 2500, I believe.

[Joe Fernand]

It varies from manufacturer to manufacturer and model to model in terms of 'old world' analogue SD support.

Some Displays will be supplied Inc. short 'adapter' cables for Composite, Component or 'SCART' signals.

Others will reply on you having all digital (HDMI or DVI) Source devices or use an external box to convert from Analogue to Digital.

How and where you choose to convert can have a big effect on the quality of image you achieve on your chosen set!

Joe

[HHGTTG]

Originally Posted by Joe Fernand

It varies from manufacturer to manufacturer and model to model in terms of 'old world' analogue SD support.

Some Displays will be supplied Inc. short 'adapter' cables for Composite, Component or 'SCART' signals.

Others will reply on you having all digital (HDMI or DVI) Source devices or use an external box to convert from Analogue to Digital.

How and where you choose to convert can have a big effect on the quality of image you achieve on your chosen set!

Joe

Thanks.
That worries me a bit to be honest. I have two HDMI inputs on my TV and have, to date (and goodness know why) not been impressed by the quality of my picture when using that, rather than SCART.
My latest acquisition i.e. Humax FOX T2 HDR PVR, gives indifferent results compared with SCART input which seems to defy all logic according to the experts. Try as I might the HDMI picture looks murkier than the scart one although tweaking the TV's HDMI input settings (thank goodness for that feature on my Sony) has made thing better.
To be honest I cant be bothered with HDMI in view of my watching habits but would be worried if the alternative was not there on a new TV.

[rover]

Members might be interested in this posting I made on the Samsung UEXXD8000 thread:

I have a 46D8000 and reported the light bleed and banding to Samsung. Today an engineer arrived and although he agreed that there is light bleed he told me that Samsung do not regard this as a fault but as a characteristic of LED screens! he gave me print out of Samsung's FAQ page:

How can I reduce backlight leakage on my LED TV?

Conclusion, if you don't want light bleed don't buy a Samsung and /or LED TVs?

[Joe Fernand]

Really

LCD screens are illuminated by various means - by far the most popular being CCFL or more recently LED; the LED’s are arrayed around the edge of the Display (Edge-lit) or as a Matrix across the whole screen area (Back-lit) which makes them a bit thicker!

LCD with LED lighting is not the ‘true’ ultra-thin ‘film like’ Display that folk are hoping for and have been promised since the dawn of sci-fi movies!

What folk are keen to see are Display devices that don’t use LCD (with LED or any other form of illumination) and instead use OLED - LG to Show ‘World’s Largest’ OLED, 3D TVs at CES - CE Pro Spotlight Article from CE Pro

Though how the marketing guys will explain that one is another matter!!!

Joe

[Wassja]

I can tell you one thing that hasn't changed with LED introduction to LCDs - the method of dimming (PWM). Because of PWM LEDs just as CCFLs are being turned on and off about 200 times a second, which we can subliminally perceive. For less healthy individuals this can be a huge problem, causing symptoms such as eye strain, headaches, dizziness, nausea and so on.