[bukan.ijam]

From ips alpha site, there is no 42 inch ips alpha panel. does this mean panasonic 42 lcd does not use ips alpha for this set?

thanks.

[hornydragon]

Which model? Its likely to be a Neo PDP panel at 42" as Panasonic are the leaders in PDP technology

[DLoop]

Originally Posted by hornydragon

Which model? Its likely to be a Neo PDP panel at 42" as Panasonic are the leaders in PDP technology

Pana do one 42" LCD the details show it as IPS Alpha;

VIERA NeoPDP, Plasma & LCD - VIERA LCD TV - TX-L42S10 - Overview - UK & Ireland

[Nielo TM]

It has standard S-IPS panel from LGD

If I were you, I would get the Toshiba 42" (RV635)

[Bibby_83]

Hi,
It does say IPS technology but this same technology is shared in different forms by the IPS Alpha and LG Displays manufacturers. The type of panel made by LG as Nielo mentioned is called S-IPS though an H (that is, horizontal) IPS panel has also been referred to. IPS stands for in-plane switching and is a type of technology used by a number of TV makers and probably a few LCD monitors too.

I wouldn't mind an IPS Alpha 42 inch panel but S-IPS isn't that different - I would say viewing angle is better than whatever technology the Toshiba AV set uses.

[Nielo TM]

S-IPS is inferior to H-IPS (aka IPS Alpha, e-IPS and IPS-Pro).

We also don't know the generation (e.g. 2007, 2008, 2009)


Toshiba have really pulled themselves up this year and produced excellent range of LCDs. Their 42" version is likely to contain 3rd generation A-MVA, which has far better blacks than IPS based panel.

I still haven't seen an IPS panel braking the 1000:1 ANSI barrier.


PS: Toshiba (like Samsung) offer full image control. So the user can fine tune the display, which is not possible on UK Panasonic models.

[bukan.ijam]

Hi Nielo TM. I really appreciate your view. Thanks.

Recently i bought pana s1 42" plasma to use as large screen monitor. after a while, i realize that i cant stand the flicker. although the picture is very nice, plasma is unuseable as a monitor. so i have no other option but to get another 42" lcd.

I will be using the lcd mainly for pc usage and gaming. i believe, because of this, most (if not all) image processing features provided in the lcd panel is irrelevant as i can do all the processing through the pc better and faster. i also dont need any upscaling features. thats why when choosing a lcd, i look into what type of the lcd panel used. heres what i gather:

LG Display: TN, IPS, S-IPS, SA-IPS, H-IPS --- Samsung, LGE, Philips, Vizo, Panasonic, Toshiba, Hitachi, AmTRAN and Skyworth

Sharp Japan: ASV (variant of VA) --- Toshiba, Philips, Sony, Pioneer (LCD) and Sharp

Chi Mei Optoelectronics: TN, S-MVA and LCS MVA --- Samsung, Philips, Funai, LGE, Toshiba and Sony

AU Optronics: TN, P-MVA and A-MVA --- Sony, Samsung, Philips, LGE, Toshiba, Proview, Panasonic

Chunghwa Picture Tubes: TN and MVA variant --- Sony, Samsung and Konka

Samsung SDI: TN, PVA and S-PVA -- JVC, Samsung, Sony, Philips, Sanyo and Panasonic

IPS Alpha Technology (Hitachi-Matsushita): IPS Pro --- Hitachi and Panasonic

of all these brands, sony seems to be the most popular. but since sony use panel made by samsung, and i have personally see how bad samsung products are (unuseable in less than 3 years - personal experience with MULTIPLE products), i would never EVER touch samsung pos again. also, i have seen my friend bad experience with lg products. because of that, i decided to ditch any product from korea, taiwan and china from my consideration.

that leaves me with sharp ASV and IPS alpha panels. from what i read, IPS alpha have better viewing angle, better response time and reduced blur artifact. while ASV have limited (very limited?) viewing angle, good response time, somewhat bad sub pixel for pc usage, average blur artifact. both produce great image at native definition. not really sure about 1:1 pixel mapping though. havent look at other models. which model is recommended for my usage?

thank you very much.

[Nielo TM]

I need to update that panel list lol

Anyway, what you need is a public display or a large monitor, which can be costly.

If take the HDTV route, you'll get plenty of choices and get to save some well earned credits.


It also mean you'll have to ditch you believes and choose a panel that has excellent PC capability.

A panel lottery with panasonic, shocking.

[Nielo TM]

Originally Posted by bukan.ijam

of all these brands, sony seems to be the most popular. but since sony use panel made by samsung, and i have personally see how bad samsung products are (unuseable in less than 3 years - personal experience with MULTIPLE products), i would never EVER touch samsung pos again. also, i have seen my friend bad experience with lg products. because of that, i decided to ditch any product from korea, taiwan and china from my consideration.

Most components found in today's electronics are manufactured in either china or Taiwan.

For example, my Dell 2209WA (which I love to death) was designed by Dell and manufactured by Foxconn (Twain). The panel used was contracted from LG.Display (e-IPS).

So no one can guarantee a produced designed and manufactured 100% in Japan or in Europe. Also, no one can guarantee IPS Alpha or ASV will last longer than S-IPS, MVA or PVA.

So you have to change you mindset regarding these things.

The question you should be asking is, which model will suite my needs?

And the answer would be the Samsung series 5 LCD

BTW, Samsung has improved their quality control, so you shouldn't have any issues.

Originally Posted by bukan.ijam

that leaves me with sharp ASV and IPS alpha panels. from what i read, IPS alpha have better viewing angle, better response time and reduced blur artifact. while ASV have limited (very limited?) viewing angle, good response time, somewhat bad sub pixel for pc usage, average blur artifact. both produce great image at native definition. not really sure about 1:1 pixel mapping though. havent look at other models. which model is recommended for my usage?

thank you very much.

Again, no point in comparing LCD modules if the display is incapable of meeting your requirements.

1. IPS Alpha is primarily used by Panasonic, and 2009 Panasonic LCDs are not recommended for PC usage to view text based contents due to 1:1 mapping issues.

2. Due to the odd sub-pixel architecture of the ASV, it's not recommended for PC use.

[Nielo TM]

Originally Posted by Sthal

A panel lottery with panasonic, shocking.

It was a general information

Most Panasonic LCDs use their own IPS Alpha panel

But the smaller versions and the 42" version use 3rd party panel.

[Raitzi]

What kind of usage are you looking forward for your TV? We might be able to narrow down good alternatives for you.

This is one way to put answer(eg.):

40% SD TV
30% Gaming
20% HD movies
10% SD movies

[Nielo TM]

He will be using it mainly with his PC and gaming


So he needs a display that accepts VESA formats via HDMI and full 1:1 pixel map. Input lag is also a major factor.


Considering all that, I can't think of a better set than a Samsung Series 5 LCD (B550)


He could get a 40" 1080p public display from Samsung, NEC, Philips etc... but it will cost.

[Raitzi]

I recommend Sony z4500 which has been said to the best set for gamers with low input lag good motion resolution.
hdtvtest review: Sony KDL40Z4500 / KDL-40Z4500 Review: Bravia 200Hz LCD TV

[Nielo TM]

It's way too expensive for PC and Gaming. If he can find a reputable store selling it below £800, then its worth considering

[bukan.ijam]

Thanks for the reply guys. This evening, i went to electronic store to see some lcd panel in action. I must say, samsung, sony and sharp have very impressive panel.

1. samsung
the non crystral series 6 panel from samsung is under my budget. the image is great with 100hz capability. still, even in avforum.com, samsung have many reports of faulty panel. the warranty is 1 year.

2. sony
v series is under my budget. but no 100hz capability. w series with 100hz looks amazing though. unfortunately, w series is unjustifiably expensive. sony z series is wayyy out of budget. 200hz is very impressive though.

3. sharp
77 series have great picture with 100hz capability. and the price is under my budget. i find the viewing angle is acceptable. not great like plasma, but better than most lcd i saw at the shop.

anyway, panasonic 42" is out of question because it does not use ips alpha.
i use my lcd 100% as my pc monitor(80% text, 20% pc gaming). i have panasonic plasma for my tv needs.

my requirement for lcd are:

1. 1:1 pixel mapping
2. at least 100hz. excessive blurring is unacceptable
3. low response time.
4. non noisy image would be better
5. no colour banding would be better

what i dont need for my lcd are:

1. upscaling. i use my powerful pc for upscaling thank you very much mr bravia, resolution+ etc.
2. filters. like sharpening, edge enhancement, noise reduction, deblocking etc.

so now my choices of panel are
1. sharp a77
2. sony w series. maybe too expensive for me.
3. samsung (the one that have 100hz)
4. any other choice?

thank you very much.

[Raitzi]

Just to add my opinion, sharp looks best for you from that list. (samsungs might not have low enogh input lag be able to use 100 Hz mode while gaming)

[Nielo TM]

Originally Posted by bukan.ijam

Thanks for the reply guys. This evening, i went to electronic store to see some lcd panel in action. I must say, samsung, sony and sharp have very impressive panel.

1. samsung
the non crystral series 6 panel from samsung is under my budget. the image is great with 100hz capability. still, even in avforum.com, samsung have many reports of faulty panel. the warranty is 1 year.

Forget 100Hz because it'll be disabled when using PC mode/game mode. So get the Samsung B550

Originally Posted by bukan.ijam

2. sony
v series is under my budget. but no 100hz capability. w series with 100hz looks amazing though. unfortunately, w series is unjustifiably expensive. sony z series is wayyy out of budget. 200hz is very impressive though.

Again, (100Hz) MCFI will be disabled and the new BE3 sets are known to have high input lag

Originally Posted by bukan.ijam

3. sharp
77 series have great picture with 100hz capability. and the price is under my budget. i find the viewing angle is acceptable. not great like plasma, but better than most lcd i saw at the shop.

The DH77E is one worst LCD I've seen for some time. Also, due to it's odd RGB pixel structure , it's not recommended for PC

Originally Posted by bukan.ijam

1. 1:1 pixel mapping
2. at least 100hz. excessive blurring is unacceptable
3. low response time.
4. non noisy image would be better
5. no colour banding would be better

As I said before, 100Hz is usless

Originally Posted by bukan.ijam

what i dont need for my lcd are:

1. upscaling. i use my powerful pc for upscaling thank you very much mr bravia, resolution+ etc.
2. filters. like sharpening, edge enhancement, noise reduction, deblocking etc.

You have no choice in this regard

The only way to escape is to buy a public display

[Bibby_83]

Hi,

Originally Posted by Nielo TM

S-IPS is inferior to H-IPS (aka IPS Alpha, e-IPS and IPS-Pro)...

...I still haven't seen an IPS panel braking the 1000:1 ANSI barrier.

I had a feeling you might say that since I think when I read your guide a while ago you mentioned some difference between panel types or those manufacturing them. But in all honesty what are the technical differences between the S-IPS and IPS Alpha really like today? My understanding of the subject is based on IPS Alpha or Hitachi/Panasonic's idea of the technology which claims mainly better contrast. I think there were some things I read about the H-IPS standard being applied by the LG Displays company but I might have been mistaken. In other words, is it just black that is an issue with S-IPS against Alpha?

[Nielo TM]

LGD does manufacture H-IPS panel, but I don't know if it's used on their sets.

The main difference is the viewing angle, efficiency, cost effective etc... It's not a major upgrade, but just to eliminator the minor annoyances

[bukan.ijam]

sigh.

i originally thought 100hz would probably improve the blurring. i forgot the extra frame requires extra processing which will increase input lag. does this means that while in game mode, i should expect blur image? what kind of feature to look that minimize this problem?

about bravia engine 3, can it be disable?

by the way, what is public display.

[Nielo TM]

Originally Posted by bukan.ijam

sigh.

i originally thought 100hz would probably improve the blurring. i forgot the extra frame requires extra processing which will increase input lag. does this means that while in game mode, i should expect blur image? what kind of feature to look that minimize this problem?

Only when playing 60p games via game controller

Originally Posted by bukan.ijam

about bravia engine 3, can it be disable?

No

Originally Posted by bukan.ijam

by the way, what is public display.

A display designed for the commercial sector

It's usually composed high-grade components for continues 24/7 operation, hence the hefty price tag

Sony : Public Displays : United Kingdom


computer monitors | SAMSUNG

Philips - Public signage - Sound and vision - Professional products

NEC Display Solutions - Public Displays

[bukan.ijam]

Originally Posted by Nielo TM

Only when playing 60p games via game controller

does this mean, there is no(minimal) blurring if i play games/watching movies using pc?

[Raitzi]

I liked to play games with 100 Hz mode with my toshiba. There was no noticable increase in lag but this of course depends on tv (eg. most philips have terrible lag with 100 Hz mode) Motion resolution was better with all games with 100 Hz mode. Some 30 fps almost looked like they run in 60 fps if smooth(toshiba term) setting was used.

But you should test before you buy if you wan to have tv with 100 Hz and be able to use it while gaming.

[Nielo TM]

Originally Posted by Raitzi

I liked to play games with 100 Hz mode with my toshiba. There was noticable increase in lag but this of course depends on tv (eg. most philips have terrible lag with 100 Hz mode) Motion resolution was better with all games with 100 Hz mode. Some 30 fps almost looked like they run in 60 fps if smooth(toshiba term) setting was used.

That is the effect of low-level MCFI (not 100/120Hz)

[Nielo TM]

Originally Posted by bukan.ijam

does this mean, there is no(minimal) blurring if i play games/watching movies using pc?

When using the mouse an keyboard for playing FPS games, it's harder to detect motion blur as there no/minimal panning involved.

When playing games using a game controller/pad, it's the exact opposite.



For low-motion contents such as movies and seasonal programs, it's irrelevant