LED BLU vs CCFL

[weblah]

I understand that LED BLU is (potentialy) better than CCFL. Mainly due to the yield of higher contrast ratios (I'm trying to fight the big numbers!) and potentially plasma-esque blacks. In SONYs 'guff' it states that their RGB implementation makes 'your blacks darker than the night sky' . . . hmm

I just wanted to scout peoples experienced opinions on if this:

1) Is it really as good as made out (ie LED BLU is better than CCFL)?
2) Is this something that should be a key consideration in purchasing a new set? (I can't see it in the ]FAQ, so maybe not?)
3) How does the the RGB LED BLU implementation fair against the the white implementation? (in terms of overall picture quality)
4) I am resultantly looking firmly in the direction of the [SIZE=1]Samsung LE46A956D1M. Which I have seen for £1454.70. This is pushing my budget of ~£1200, but I don't mind if it is really worth it! Any other potential contenders (>=46")?

Background - I am upgrading from a >10 year old CRT - solid performer, mind; good old Trinitron!

The main uses of the new set (no particular order) will be gaming, SD TV <edit>including sport</edit> (maybe HD later down the line), DVD and a some Blu Ray. The extra features on the Samsung (DLNA - videos from computer / USB) would probably be put to good use too.

[DaveC]

I think it's still a bit early to get an awful lot of forum opinion yet...there only seems to be a couple of Sammy 9 series and Phillips 9803 owners out there at the mo. I don't think the Sony 4500 has actually hit the shops yet (although I believe it's imminent), so nobody can really tell if the RGB LED variety of backlight will offer anything over regular white LEDs.

The general feedback from the review websites seems to be very good though try reading these:


Samsung LE55A956 Review

Samsung LE55A956 55in LCD TV Review - TV Reviews - TrustedReviews

Philips 42PFL9803H 42in LED LCD TV Review - TV Reviews - TrustedReviews

For me personally, I've ruled out the Sony on the basis that it's physical size is too big for my lounge. I'm currently swayed towards the Sammy 9 series because I'm not convinced that the 2k phillips will be worth the extra 500quid.

[weblah]

I didn't realise that the LED BLUs were so new - I thought that these were the 2nd gens. Guess I was wrong

I am pretty certain I like the sounds of the Samsung too - I guess I should go and have a good play, when I can, before I commit!
As an aside - I had seen a couple of those reviews before, but failed to understand the greyscale and colour charts on them (under the "Calibration" section). Anyone know of a link where they are explained simply?

[ziffius]

Originally Posted by DaveC

so nobody can really tell if the RGB LED variety of backlight will offer anything over regular white LEDs.

Seeing “Green Displays� at FPD International 2008 | LEDinside - Let There Be Light with LED

It says Samung's RGB LED backlight uses 50% of the power consumption as their White LED backlight. I don't know if that has been shown in Sony's X4500 though. From this you could maybe assume that Samsung's successor to the A656 will have a white LED backlight, and the higher end sucessor to the A956 will have an RGB LED backlight? It's also meant to much easier to calibrate the white balance with an RGB LED backlight.

[ziffius]

Originally Posted by weblah

I didn't realise that the LED BLUs were so new - I thought that these were the 2nd gens. Guess I was wrong

The A786/ A956 are second generation. The first generation was the F96/F97 Samsung LE52F96BD 52in LED LCD TV Review - TV Reviews - TrustedReviews.

[ziffius]

Due to high production costs, the penetration rate of LED backlighting in LCD TV applications may only reach 10% of the total LCD TV market by 2012, according to LCD panel maker AU Optronics (AUO).

AUO executives indicated that currently the price for an LED lamp for a 42-inch LCD panel is 3.4 times more expensive than the price of a similar CCFL lamp. In terms of the entire backlight unit (BLU), Chi Mei Optoelectronics (CMO) noted that a white LED backlight unit (BLU) for a 42-inch LCD TV panel is 2-3 times more expensive than a CCFL solution, while a RGB LED BLU is five times more expensive than a CCFL BLU.

In terms of LED backlight technology, the AUO executives commented that the current direct-type LED backlight technology with local dimming and boosting would be replaced by edge-type LED backlight technology in the future and LED lighting efficiency will improve 10-20% annually.

AUO is planning to equip its LCD TV panels with edge-type LED backlight technology, which require fewer, but higher-powered LEDs in 2010.

Penetration rate of LED backlighting for LCD TV applications to only reach 10% in 2012, says AUO

[weblah]

Originally Posted by ziffius

Samung's RGB LED backlight uses 50% of the power consumption as their White LED backlight....you could maybe assume that Samsung's successor to....the A956 will have an RGB LED backlight? It's also meant to much easier to calibrate the white balance with an RGB LED backlight.

Other than the mamoth energy saving, is there anything else WRT picture quality?
I thought the A956 was relatively new and you are referring to a successor!? - eek. Do you know if this successor would be weeks/months/a year away? . . . I can hear the Samsung beckoning me

[ziffius]

Originally Posted by weblah

Other than the mamoth energy saving, is there anything else WRT picture quality?
I thought the A956 was relatively new and you are referring to a successor!? - eek. Do you know if this successor would be weeks/months/a year away? . . . I can hear the Samsung beckoning me

Normally they have a 12month lifespan before being replaced. It's rumoured that the replacement for the A656/ A686 will have a BLU, presumably the B656. The A756 could also be replaced as although it was slow to show up here, it was avalible in the US about a month after their A656.

I have a feeling they might refresh the A956 with a Divx certified version marchish. Although the A956 will play Divx files, it isn't certified. According to a Divx press release, Samsung are releasing Divx certified TV's early next year. DivX, Inc. - Samsung and DivX Announce Agreement to Add DivX Video Support to Leading Line of Digital Televisions.

Any 2009 new models should be announced in six weeks time at CES next 8th-11th January. A high end TV like the A956 has the potential to be discounted in the January sales with the credit crunch effecting the high end TV's the most.

[ChrisGgr]

but what would actually give a benefit to samsung to introduce the LED BLU on the successor of A656?This mid range model needs to be priced at a very competitive price and with economic crisis prices will be driven even more down.furthermore this plan doesnt collocate with samsung's ranging.there would be no reason for someone to buy the hi end 9 series!

[ziffius]

Originally Posted by CHRISGEO

but what would actually give a benefit to samsung to introduce the LED BLU on the successor of A656?This mid range model needs to be priced at a very competitive price and with economic crisis prices will be driven even more down.furthermore this plan doesnt collocate with samsung's ranging.there would be no reason for someone to buy the hi end 9 series!

I did say it was a rumour, I imagine there's a 50/50 chance of it becoming true. There will still be plenty of models above it, and it still won't be competition for the 9 series. Next year mid range could be LED.

I imagine it was already planned before the credit crunch started. We knew there was going to be a LED 9 series from early this year. It takes quite a while to design a new set and will already be designed. There are already references to next years 5 series 'B' model numbers from Samsung. It looks like next years 5 series are this years 6, this is how Samsung is going to save money.

The 40A786 can be had from Robert Whyte for £869 with a 5 year warrenty included, just £130 more than the A686. It's clear that Samsung are working on both White HiddenWires - Freescale and Samsung Electronics Announce Collaboration on LED Display Technology and RGB backlights, so you got assume the RGB are for the higher end models.

[weblah]

Originally Posted by ziffius

I have a feeling they might refresh the A956 with a Divx certified version marchish. Although the A956 will play Divx files, it isn't certified. According to a Divx press release, Samsung are releasing Divx certified TV's early next year. DivX, Inc. - Samsung and DivX Announce Agreement to Add DivX Video Support to Leading Line of Digital Televisions.

Great! - this isnt the first time I have read about Samsung about mid-range. I guess I am not too bothered about a certificate. Especially if (as you say / I have seen elsewhere) the current version already plays them!

Originally Posted by ziffius

Any 2009 new models should be announced in six weeks time at CES next 8th-11th January. A high end TV like the A956 has the potential to be discounted in the January sales with the credit crunch effecting the high end TV's the most.

Grrrr. This, however, is a problem - it's the opposite of what I have heard / read elsewhere

[ziffius]

Originally Posted by weblah

Grrrr. This, however, is a problem - it's the opposite of what I have heard / read elsewhere

The reason why Sony are likely to put up prices is because the Pound is doing very poorly against the Yen GBP to JPY Share Price Chart | GBPJPY=X | | Yahoo! Finance UK. Some of the Japanese manufacturers are really struggling. Sony/ Pansonic/ Pioneer can probably get away with this as they have a reasonibly large fanbase who will buy regardless, but the likes of Toshiba, JVC, Hitachi could be in serious trouble.

It's very different against the Korean currency the Won. The pound is actually doing reasonably well against it, so they don't need to increase prices. GBP to KRW Share Price Chart | GBPKRW=X | | Yahoo! Finance UK The question is will LG/ Samsung keep the prices as they are and attempt to get a bigger market share when the Japanese firms up the prices, or will they follow the Japanese and increase the prices and then make more of profit on each set.

[weblah]

Originally Posted by ziffius

...you got assume the RGB are for the higher end models.

I guess this again touches on part 3 of the original post. Is the assumption based purely on the fact that RGB BLU allows white balance to be set better and provides improved power consumption? Or are there other factors you are taking into consideration?

[ChrisGgr]

Originally Posted by ziffius

I did say it was a rumour, I imagine there's a 50/50 chance of it becoming true. There will still be plenty of models above it, and it still won't be competition for the 9 series. Next year mid range could be LED.

I imagine it was already planned before the credit crunch started. It takes quite a while to design a new set and will already be designed. there are already references to next years 5 series 'B' model numbers from Samsung. It looks like next years 5 series are this years 6. We knew there was going to be a LED 9 series from early this year.

The 40A786 can be had from Robert Whyte for £869 with a 5 year warrenty included, just £130 more than the A686. It's clear that Samsung are working on both White HiddenWires - Freescale and Samsung Electronics Announce Collaboration on LED Display Technology and RGB backlights, so you got assume the RGB are for the higher end models.

what references are there about B 5 series?

[ziffius]

Originally Posted by CHRISGEO

what references are there about B 5 series?

Product numbers are LE32B530P7W,LE37B530P7W LE40B530P7W,LE46B530P7W,LE32B550A5W LE37B550A5W,LE40B550A5W,LE46B550A5W along with the 'B' 6 series Plasmas PN50B650S1F,PN58B650S1F.

It's possible LE40B550A5 could have 100hz.