[Hillskill]

The act of camping outside the enemies spawn point and pinning them down. Had it done to me and also done it to other teams. With the games being so territorial it can often happen and in particular of certain maps.....Tharis something and Academy in particular. I suspect its only really an issue on bodycount but its something that consistently happens in games I have played. At first it left me tearing my hair out but the last few times I have treated it as a challenge as the Devs have at least put several exits out of spawn points.

So what do you think ? Ruining the game or is all fair in love and war ??

[Br0ken]

In my opinion if some one is watching and waiting until you've exited your spawn point and takes you out its fair game. A team can at least regroup and tactically make a break for it.

But if said person is shooting or throwing grenades into the spawn area its not so fair. Its rather pathetic if some people need to do that to get kills. A team in this situation will just constantly keep dying without being able to regroup.

[shagaboopon]

As long as the opposition is fair enough to cover the exits and pin down then I thinks all is good, cheaply killing people as they spawn though is bad sportsmanship and lame.

I would add this is my experience in other FPS games not Killzone 2 which I don't own at the moment.

I used to play BHD and the solution they had to spawn killers was when you respawned you had around 10 seconds of invulnrability or until your fired a shot. This also was the same if you were medic revived, it used to make awesome fun creating a chain of medics to get out of spawn and push the opposition back.

[uncleclives]

Not sure if this would work but the Assault class has the ability to run like Usian Bolt for a short time! If this class is used as a squad leader and can manage a mad dash out to safety. His squad can spawn on him and if one of them is the Tactician who can then set up a new spawn point for everyone.

PSN - scarecrow73

[Gazelle]

Spawn camping ruins games, even killing people as they exit the spawn is trash, but I witnessed enemies spawning in our spawn last night! It was on the big desert map and one of the classes has a perk of making a spawn point and someone created one in our spawn.

[shagaboopon]

Originally Posted by Gazelle

Spawn camping ruins games, even killing people as they exit the spawn is trash, but I witnessed enemies spawning in our spawn last night! It was on the big desert map and one of the classes has a perk of making a spawn point and someone created one in our spawn.

Surely that can easily be fixed with a patch to restrict respawn points a set distance from a primary spawn point, assuming its a widespread cheap tactic being used so GG know about it. Was this ability not in the beta though, there must be some defense to these tactics.

In my experience on FPS games you only tend to get pushed back to be spawn raped if your team doesn't work as a unit. Once people learn choke points to hold on maps the spawn campers will be fewer.

[Gazelle]

Originally Posted by shagaboopon

Surely that can easily be fixed with a patch to restrict respawn points a set distance from a primary spawn point, assuming its a widespread cheap tactic being used so GG know about it. Was this ability not in the beta though, there must be some defense to these tactics.

In my experience on FPS games you only tend to get pushed back to be spawn raped if your team doesn't work as a unit. Once people learn choke points to hold on maps the spawn campers will be fewer.

I don't take games seriously enough to worry about tactics.

I just found it a bit odd that my enemies were spawning in my spawn point. At least let me step out of my spawn before you kill me

[Hillskill]

Didn't come across too much of it in this evenings games. One lad was sniping peeps off as the exited the spawn which slightly massively annoying but none of the massacres from previous nights. 10secs of invulnerability might help and could easily be patched if the Devs decided to act. IMHO though, it wouldn't help. Deployable spawns are probably the only way out and as someone quite rightly said team work is the key. Only problem with team work is A.) online is full of lone wolfs who have no interest in team play & B.) if you do find someone who is a team player and will do their bit, its will be sods law they don't have a headset.

[shagaboopon]

Every FPS game I've ever played (I used to play very seriously ) there will always be cheap spots for camping and sniping. Its just the nature of the beast sadly. Its up to the players to spot where these are and prevent the opposite team from taking an advantage. Its amazing how even on maps that appear huge you can effectively turn an entire 16v16+ game on its head by holding 2 or 3 spots.

I'm not defending KZ2 by the way, I'm just suggesting that in order to really get the most of online FPS then tactics must always be a consideration. If you can get online with 3 or 4 friends who can work together as a team I'm willing to bet the tables on who is owning who would turn very quickly. 2 pairs creating choke points to prevent the enemy moving forward and thus allowing the rest of your team to advance has turned many public games around in my time.

[Hillskill]

I think what highlights the problem is how much of an advantage the higher rank players have over N00bs. That said it has only taken 20 odd hours to reach the highest rank so its in reach of even casual gamers.

[Nuggsy]

This is possibly my biggest gripe especially when coupled with unbalanced teams.
I would have thought Guerilla could fix this with a patch though & apply a longer Spawn Shield.
I know you get 1 now but it's not long enough.
I don't think Guerilla intended Spawn camping to take place & that's why there are always default bots in Spawns but there are too many possible angles & options to get at the Spawn without triggering the bots.

Moan over!

Question - If you're in disguise do enemy bots still fire at you? I know they can't see you when you apply the Sniper Stealth!

[Robothamster]

Originally Posted by Nuggsy

Question - If you're in disguise do enemy bots still fire at you? I know they can't see you when you apply the Sniper Stealth!

Not sure about the enemies in disguise but Flying bots SHOULD see the snipers, not sure about turrets though.

[Zeromajor]

Originally Posted by shagaboopon

Was this ability not in the beta though

It seems to me like there was a lot of things beta players failed to pick up on...

That's what happens when people treat betas like exclusive demos unfortunately.

edit: i'm aware quite a few people on here were part of the beta and i'm not suggesting that you did what I mentioned above - but i'm sure you can relate to what i'm saying.

[daddyduche]

When ever the tactician places a spawn flair only that team should be able to see it, maybe that would help.

[DJ Ovengloves]

Personally I feel spawn killing opponents coming out a flare is part of the game and tough...it's the "home base" spawn killing that is beginning to grind my gears.

Originally Posted by daddyduche

When ever the tactician places a spawn flair only that team should be able to see it, maybe that would help.

[Br0ken]

Originally Posted by Lee

Personally I feel spawn killing opponents coming out a flare is part of the game and tough...it's the "home base" spawn killing that is beginning to grind my gears.

Good to know other people agree with me. I mentioned it a few days ago in another thread only to be told its part of playing an FPS.

[phairplay]

Originally Posted by Lee

Personally I feel spawn killing opponents coming out a flare is part of the game and tough...it's the "home base" spawn killing that is beginning to grind my gears.

Originally Posted by Br0ken

Good to know other people agree with me. I mentioned it a few days ago in another thread only to be told its part of playing an FPS.

I agree with you both (yes broken i agree with you don't look so shocked)

i played a few games last night where home base spawn killing was just a joke and at one point i just switched the game off.

as for flare spawns you have made a choice to spawn there so if you get killed straight away thats fair game. Yet at the home spawn zone you have not being given a choice which then makes it unfair.

[Tall_Paul]

Originally Posted by Br0ken

Good to know other people agree with me. I mentioned it a few days ago in another thread only to be told its part of playing an FPS.

I agree too, if your team has a spawn point out, then you've got at least 2 options of where to spawn. Its also the tacticians job to ensure they place the spawn grenade somewhere which wont attract spawn campers.

Its when the enemy team are waiting just outside, or sometimes inside the enemys basecamp thats the problem, because unless one of your team members somehow manages to get out, the only place you can spawn is in the middle of the carnage.

On the Pyrrhus rise map people (myself included) do snipe across the map from within the basecamps, and for me they are fair game (I've been taken out many times doing this, and fully expect to be) unless the whole team is being pressed back into basecamp, which pretty much never happens as its such a big map.

[Billy Goodgun]

But then I guess you could argue that's not really spawn killing anyway, as you haven't just spawned in... You've made a choice to stay there to pick up kills.

I definitely agree people spawning anywhere outside base camp are fair game, whether it's from a spawn flare or on a team leader. People spawning inside base camps are not fair game.

[Robothamster]

Originally Posted by Billy Goodgun

...people spawning anywhere outside base camp are fair game, whether it's from a spawn flare or on a team leader. People spawning inside base camps are not fair game.

Seems we are all on agreement with this.

Can a mod make this a new Forum rule please. Any base spawn campers will be removed from the AVF forums

[Tall_Paul]

Originally Posted by Billy Goodgun

But then I guess you could argue that's not really spawn killing anyway, as you haven't just spawned in... You've made a choice to stay there to pick up kills.

I definitely agree people spawning anywhere outside base camp are fair game, whether it's from a spawn flare or on a team leader. People spawning inside base camps are not fair game.

It just so happens that there is a certain line sight from one spot on the helghast basecamp to one of the best sniping spots in the map on the upper level of the ISA basecamp, around 2.5km away... I take great pleasure in popping an enemy snipers head if they so choose to pick that spot to snipe from

[phairplay]

Originally Posted by Robothamster

Seems we are all on agreement with this.

Can a mod make this a new Forum rule please. Any base spawn campers will be removed from the AVF forums

If they started that rule last night there would only be a hand full of ppl left (thats talk about killzone 2)

also i think that the ACADEMY MAP should be locked if there more then 16 ppl. (8v8) as if you are a helghast the isa can get into your base and camp out with ease.

[Hubba-EX]

Originally Posted by uncleclives

Not sure if this would work but the Assault class has the ability to run like Usian Bolt for a short time! If this class is used as a squad leader and can manage a mad dash out to safety. His squad can spawn on him and if one of them is the Tactician who can then set up a new spawn point for everyone.

PSN - scarecrow73

That is the best thing about the game, it really is a mix of tactical and twitch shooting.

Because of the class system it really pays to communicate well in games more then any other shooter I have played.

When I was in the beta, I didnt even reach medic level, found it really hard and the spwan camping really put me off. But now I realise there are ways around it.

[Tall_Paul]

Originally Posted by uncleclives

Not sure if this would work but the Assault class has the ability to run like Usian Bolt for a short time! If this class is used as a squad leader and can manage a mad dash out to safety. His squad can spawn on him and if one of them is the Tactician who can then set up a new spawn point for everyone.

Once you've unlocked the airbots and got the ribbons/medal for them, you can use the other 2nd abilities with the tactician, so you get... a tactician who can run like Usian Bolt

I was playing as a scout with the boost pill last night, its great for taking out a couple of players, then legging it to the next sniper spot, rinse and repeat. Also very useful for legging it to the S&D targets, sneaking in unseen, then planting explosives while cloaked

[Sinzer]

I wonder if base spawn camping will balance out though in a few weeks.

A major factor seems to be the power of the later classes, with only a small percentage with current access to those classes, it only takes a few on one side to be able to spawn camp. Also, the only times I have experienced spawn camping is on servers where the sides are imbalanced numbers wise.

It can be annoying, but you have the power of voting with your feet, you can move servers, or create your own with restrictions to lower the risk of it happening.

[TeggDon]

There is always a way out. Ussualy every spawn point has at least three distinct exit routes. Its just that some prefer to see if they can win the lottery of grenade and killing. This is where Tacticians and squad leaders come in handy.

[Hillskill]

Theres normally 2 or 3 exits out of a spawn point. On some maps I have found direct shortcuts to the enemy spawns but if I could get to them then surely they could get to me. The most unbalanced appears to be Academy but I think thats only because people aren't aware of all the exits yet (underground passage for example). I will normally play as a tactician first of all, I then try get a spawn point about midway into the map and slightly in cover. I'll then announce it to whoever is listening. If my team is totally pinned down then I roll out the assault class, its then fairly easy to clear a path and push the other team back a bit.
Once more players reach the higher ranks it should balance out a bit more.

[daddyduche]

Originally Posted by Hillskill

Theres normally 2 or 3 exits out of a spawn point. On some maps I have found direct shortcuts to the enemy spawns but if I could get to them then surely they could get to me. The most unbalanced appears to be Academy but I think thats only because people aren't aware of all the exits yet (underground passage for example). I will normally play as a tactician first of all, I then try get a spawn point about midway into the map and slightly in cover. I'll then announce it to whoever is listening. If my team is totally pinned down then I roll out the assault class, its then fairly easy to clear a path and push the other team back a bit.
Once more players reach the higher ranks it should balance out a bit more.

I joined your game this afternoon when you were playing that map and got absolutley hammered, it's a spawn campers dream, but that underground passage can be great for getting your own back.

[Hillskill]

Originally Posted by daddyduche

I joined your game this afternoon when you were playing that map and got absolutley hammered, it's a spawn campers dream, but that underground passage can be great for getting your own back.

Exactly ! There are always ways out. When you spawn into academy locker room turn around, there you will see a series of rooms, one of these rooms has a hole in the floor through which you can escape to another area in the map. There always a chance you could get pinned down there too but someone should be able to make it out of one of the exits. If your playing as a tactician get a spawn point down ASAP !

[Fen Star]

I don't mind being spawn camped saves me running halfway across the map only to die with the first bullet...

What i hate is the person who camps at your spawn miles away from the battle just to shoot you as you walk out of the spawn and as you die you'll normally see them slide back behind the box where they were hiding no realising that when you spawn that will be your first port of call....