[tele1962]

Please click the link to another thread and can you tell me what you think?

http://www.avforums.com/forums/plasm...l#post10873754

[Badger0-0]

I'm not sure why you have to start a new thread, as it's all being said on there
But my tuppence worth says I can't see what the problem is?
The bloke is obviously no mug and knows what he's altering and just wants that bit more info.
Fwiw, I'd also do exactly what he wants to do myself, if I was so inclined.
I wouldn't consider it without a colorimeter though.
And if I ruined my PZ70, I'd know it was my own fault.

I can partly understand his viewpoint that it seems no-one wants to tell him specifics and that's perfectly understandable, given that it costs serious money to get ISF membership, which I assume makes you privvy to the specific settings via their website(?)

As for warning people away from the service menu, again that's understandable for an everyday Joe.
But at the same time, I'm not a qualified mechanic, but would back myself to do a better job of servicing my car than any garage.

Not that I'm taking anything away from Gordon etc. I'd guarantee they'd be miles faster than me.

[tele1962]

Originally Posted by Badger0-0

I'm not sure why you have to start a new thread, as it's all being said on there
But my tuppence worth says I can't see what the problem is?
The bloke is obviously no mug and knows what he's altering and just wants that bit more info.
Fwiw, I'd also do exactly what he wants to do myself, if I was so inclined.
I wouldn't consider it without a colorimeter though.
And if I ruined my PZ70, I'd know it was my own fault.

I can partly understand his viewpoint that it seems no-one wants to tell him specifics and that's perfectly understandable, given that it costs serious money to get ISF membership, which I assume makes you privvy to the specific settings via their website(?)

As for warning people away from the service menu, again that's understandable for an everyday Joe.
But at the same time, I'm not a qualified mechanic, but would back myself to do a better job of servicing my car than any garage.

Not that I'm taking anything away from Gordon etc. I'd guarantee they'd be miles faster than me.

I just wanted an opinion on some of the views on there such as and i quote from Stu:

"I wasn't even asking any questions as far as I know - I was just saying that in my opinion, the ISF certificate is nothing more than a piece of paper than can be bought for the price of the course - from what I have read you don't even take an exam to prove you understood any of it, you just send in a questionnaire afterwards to show you know how to google, copy and paste. In this respect it is nothing like other professional qualifications which have real weight and value, such as the Cisco stuff. "

Surely this may put people off a proper ISF calibration and encourage people to go into service menus and start playing around which would be a dissaster.

[Badger0-0]

Surely this may put people off a proper ISF calibration and encourage people to go into service menus and start playing around .

If that quote is true, I wouldn't give ISF any credence either.
I suspect that would be wrong though and is coming from the session that AVForums laid on

you just send in a questionnaire afterwards to show you know how to google, copy and paste

I've looked on the ISF site and of course, it's members only, so you can't access it, but if that line is true, that's quite scary.

I'd expect ISF calibrators to scoff at that line though.

Going back to my mechanic scenario, I have 35 years experience of messing around with cars plus engineering training. I'd rather trust the likes of Gordon et al, who I know have years of experience over any paperwork alone.

Will it put people off?
No imo, because your average Joe can't be arsed with doing the work for himself.
Many people seem to have a problem with a simple Google from what I've seen, let alone learning about calibrating a telly

[Gordon @ Convergent AV]

Well I got bored reading it all.

ISF certification by itself is not enough to guarantee the best most accurate calibration. That is true. There are folk who I know in the industry who do not have ISF certification but who, without doubt, could do a very accurate calibration of a display. Equally, there were folk who were on my first ISF course in 2001 who i wouldn't trust to wire a plug let alone calibrate my TV. ( I do not know whether they passed their exam to become a calibrator aftwerwards). Yes, there is an exam. It is emailed in and it is marked. If you fail any question you are asked to re-asses your answers until you get it right.

What you need to consider is whether the idea of "calibration" is good, rather than ISF calibration. I'd assert that the idea of calibration is good. The question then is to find out how to do it yourself or who to trust to do it for you. Just as there are folk who would buy a Haynes workshop manual and who would service/tune their own car, there are also folk who would prefer to have someone else do it who they would trust. Neither approach is wrong.

I have customers who I have helped do their own calibrations with their own calbration tools. I have customers who have tried to do it themselves, given up and had me do it for them. I'm with the original poster on this...it's his tv, if he wants to access service menu and have a go let him. He's a grown up, he can take responsibility for his actions. Yes, there are things in service menu's that, if set wrongly, can ruin your tv resulting in a trip to a service centre. If you do your research though you wont fall in to those traps. If you want to read about some go look for all the folk who accidentally set off the auto cal feature in their samsung tv's resulting in broken colour (easily done) and the fix to get it back to normal (easily done). Or the folk who manage to turn off the ir control of their Panasonic tv's and disable the hard buttons on some LG's..... ISF calibrators are NOT taught about these features. ISF course is designed to explain to you the history of broadcast tv and the science behind the calibration process and what you are trying to achieve. It does not go in to how to achieve accurate calibration with each device you might come up against.

Part of the problem many self calibrators seem to have is that they don't actually understand what it is they are trying to achieve or why. Then, when faced with the possibility that it might not actually end up completely accurate they do not know what set of errrors may be the best to end up with. There are many ways to skin a cat and experience is what gives a good calibrator the edge in that dept.

I wish all self calibrators well

[tele1962]

Originally Posted by Gordon @ Convergent AV

Well I got bored reading it all.

ISF certification by itself is not enough to guarantee the best most accurate calibration. That is true. There are folk who I know in the industry who do not have ISF certification but who, without doubt, could do a very accurate calibration of a display. Equally, there were folk who were on my first ISF course in 2001 who i wouldn't trust to wire a plug let alone calibrate my TV. ( I do not know whether they passed their exam to become a calibrator aftwerwards). Yes, there is an exam. It is emailed in and it is marked. If you fail any question you are asked to re-asses your answers until you get it right.

What you need to consider is whether the idea of "calibration" is good, rather than ISF calibration. I'd assert that the idea of calibration is good. The question then is to find out how to do it yourself or who to trust to do it for you. Just as there are folk who would buy a Haynes workshop manual and who would service/tune their own car, there are also folk who would prefer to have someone else do it who they would trust. Neither approach is wrong.

I have customers who I have helped do their own calibrations with their own calbration tools. I have customers who have tried to do it themselves, given up and had me do it for them. I'm with the original poster on this...it's his tv, if he wants to access service menu and have a go let him. He's a grown up, he can take responsibility for his actions. Yes, there are things in service menu's that, if set wrongly, can ruin your tv resulting in a trip to a service centre. If you do your research though you wont fall in to those traps. If you want to read about some go look for all the folk who accidentally set off the auto cal feature in their samsung tv's resulting in broken colour (easily done) and the fix to get it back to normal (easily done). Or the folk who manage to turn off the ir control of their Panasonic tv's and disable the hard buttons on some LG's..... ISF calibrators are NOT taught about these features. ISF course is designed to explain to you the history of broadcast tv and the science behind the calibration process and what you are trying to achieve. It does not go in to how to achieve accurate calibration with each device you might come up against.

Part of the problem many self calibrators seem to have is that they don't actually understand what it is they are trying to achieve or why. Then, when faced with the possibility that it might not actually end up completely accurate they do not know what set of errrors may be the best to end up with. There are many ways to skin a cat and experience is what gives a good calibrator the edge in that dept.

I wish all self calibrators well

My point was never to put people off having a go them selves but to let you and other calibrators defend there expereance and training if this thread bored you then i apologise it is a discusion forum after all and as you could see i tried to encourage the original OP to post here.
The point one of the posts was making was very misleading in saying it was very easy to do and in so doing positivley encouraging people to go in to the service menu without any knowlege of what they are doing and causing all sorts of problems.
For me i would sooner have some one with the correct training.

All the best

Barry.

[Gordon @ Convergent AV]

Barry: I found the thread you linked to boring probably because it linked to a post in the middle of a conversation....a link to post at beginning would have been more useful rather than reading on then going back and forward trying to work out who the protaganists are and why they are upset.

Wel done for having a go at sorting out the conflict yourself