[blitzed]

Hi

Using a Eye-one display 2, AVS HD 709 - Blu-ray in ps3,the greyscale guide for dummies and a lot of help from Ghostrider I decided to give callibrating my tv ago.
Have attached graphs of what ive managed so far on the panasonic 50g10b, but im sure im doing something wrong
Any advice or help appreciated

Eddie

[Ghostrider]

Damn man that is one *#$%£* up set of figures at IRE 40 m8.

For what it's worth my settings are as follows:

Via HDMI for SKY/Blu-Ray

RCUT - 7A
GCUT - 7E
BCUT - 7D

RDRV - EE
GDRV - FB
BDRV - B3

I have not calibrated for SD viewing and my untouched FREESAT settings are

RCUT - 80
GCUT - 80
BCUT - 7E

RDRV - FC
GDRV - FB
BDRV - A4

In calibrating the set I remember that I didn;t have to adjust anything too far as it was very good to begin with.

Obviously each set is different but if your CUT settings are miles away from what I have above then trying these as a starter for 10 may get things back on track.

Has anyone with more experience got any better ideas as to what is going on here?

Good luck.

Ian

[blitzed]

Cheers Ian,
I tried your settings but couldnt get the red to go high enough even on the last setting FF so i returned all the setting back to standard on mine and still cant get red high enough have attached graphs of mine as standard.

going to try the latest software update if i can find them as im sure i read about colour differences after update or is my eye-one faulty

thanks for your help its appreciated

Eddie

[Ghostrider]

If you cannot increase the RED component then try reducing the GREEN and BLUE a bit so that the overall effect balances out - all of the controls are inter-related and changing one affects the others.

By reducing the GREEN and BLUE you will effectively introduce more red and the % of red in the grayscale will effectively increase meaning that you don't have to drive the RED so hard to get closer to 100% across the board.

Your graphs are now closer to what I achieved when out of the box.

The big worry is that the BLUE vanishes off the scale at IRE30. As the rest of the run seems OK - could this be a problem with your source (PS3) or disc (DVE) or with the sensor? If you re-run the test is this dip at IRE30 repeatable?

As the PS3 plays AVCHD files you can download a set of test patterns from AVS HD 709 - Blu-ray, HD DVD, & MP4 Calibration - AVS Forum burn them to a normal DVD and play then in HD via the PS3.

These are the test patterns I used for calibrating and they worked fine for me.

BTW - what is the overall luminance that you are getting (FtL) and what are your (approximate) brightness / contrast settings on the TV?

[blitzed]

Thanks Ian,
i did download from that link and burned to a dvd thats what im using through the ps3.

going to put little-un to bed in a bit and try and find and download newest software, will then try that.

im on 1.604 atm

Cheers

Eddie

[blitzed]

right just updated to 1.611 and all the problems of dips etc are fixed i havent touched a single setting or done anything different have attached graphs.
going to try rest of calibrating in a bit

Edd

[Ghostrider]

They look about right for out of the box settings.

Low Gamma, darks too bright, and a definate green tinge to the grayscale. Just like I remember mine to be.

Get Contrast and Brightness set correctly and you'll find tha the Gamma will get closer to 2.2.

Don't forget to leave one of the RGB channels alone as a reference. Bring GREEN and BLUE down to RED - don't try to push RED upto BLUE and GREEN

When your grayscale looks OK check your luminance graph again as you may need to tweak it slightly as you will have changed the overall output by playing with the RGB controls.

NOTE : ALWAYS do your measurement run with the TV operating normally i.e. without the service menu active. For some reason the service menu effects the display so settings adjusted with the Service Menu open can only be used as a guide.

Jump out of Service Menu and re-run - decide on the changes needed - go make the changes - exit service menu and re-run.

It's a PITA cause it adds lots of time but it's worth it in the end.

[blitzed]

giving up for the night just cant get the gamma right have attached last set of graphs.

thanks for all the help Ian.

eddie

[Ghostrider]

Grayscale looks good - very good actually.

The poor Gamma is a result on the brightness and contrast being set wrong (too high). Looking at the luminence graph you are above the ideal line all the way from 20 - 90 IRE.

Look at the IRE100 level in your data and work out 6.9% of the Y level - this is the target luminance that you want at IRE30. Working with IRE30 grayscale window with continuous measurement set on HCFR reduce the brightness till the Y value is as close as possible to the figure you have just calculated.

Re-run the graph and have a look. If the top end (IRE 70-90) is still above the line then your contrast is too high and your set is maxing out white too soon. Your only alternative is to reduce the contrast slightly. This will reduce the overall light output a bit but it should bring the graph in line.

Repeat your brightness calculation (6.9% of new IRE100 Y value) and adjust again using 30IRE and re-run the graph.

When happy - you may need to recheck the grayscale RGB and adjust slightly - all the time bringing both luminance and RGB closer to the ideal.

Should get you close but you will probably have to make a decision to accept less than optimal gamma throughout the main body of the range (IRE30-70) or accept some black crush as the level of fine adjustment on the set is not good enough to give accurate control over the IRE10-20 range.

Good luck.

Ian

[blitzed]

still cant get this gamma right, ive followed guide and set the ftl at 30.9 @ 100% ire and ive set the Y reading @ 10% ire at .665
guide says my Y reading @100%=105.8(30.9ftL) x .0065 = my Y reading at 10% 0.687 mine is 0.665.
Am i missing something?ive uploaded my HCFR file

Eddie

Ian if you read this is there anychance you could send me a picture of your picture menu?

at the moment my contrast is up near top only 13 clicks to fill the bar
my brightness is 36 clicks away from filling up bar
colour is 24 clicks away from filling up bar
and sharpness 8 clicks away from filling up bar

[Ghostrider]

Unfortunately I don't think that the EyeOne (or any other consumer grade sensor) is accurate enough at IRE10 - just look at the RGB at 10IRE and you will see what I mean - all over the place.

The sensor will be much more accurate at 30IRE (or even 20) so why not try setting the brightness control at one of these points.

Your targets at IRE20 should be 2.97 (yours currently 4.23) and at IRE30 it should be 7.31 (currently 9.38).

If you get these figures you may start to experience some black crush where you lose detail in the very darkest areas - you can check this by using some of the other patterns on the test disc.

Don't forget, it is all about compromise.

[blitzed]

thanks for all your help Ian the picture is excellent so much better than before.
ive attached my graphs and file, luminance isnt 100% but ill tweak that another day (would it be caused by my room is pretty dark being a loft room)

Thanks again

Eddie

[Ghostrider]

It proves that with effort you can get there.

You may find that dropping the contrast a couple of clicks will pull the top end of the luminance graph into line without making massive visible difference to the overall maximum luminance of the screen.

Other than that - GOOD JOB.

Gamma is now much better than it was and can only improve with the suggested slight reduction in contrast.

Regards

Ian

[rgb31]

Originally Posted by blitzed

thanks for all your help Ian the picture is excellent so much better than before.
ive attached my graphs and file, luminance isnt 100% but ill tweak that another day (would it be caused by my room is pretty dark being a loft room)

Thanks again

Eddie

can you please post your service menu setings and your picture setings that you set to get to this results

[Ghostrider]

This question always crops up.

He could and may post up his settings for you but believe me they won't do you any good whatsoever as each TV needs to be set differently.

His settings or mine MAY make your picture better but equally they could make it a lot worse.

If you have got a EyeOne or similar and the HCFR Software then by all means have a go - if you haven't then please take this advice - stick with a DVE Essentials disc or the free downloadable patterns referred to in this thread and don't go near the Service Menu as you will be stumbling around in the dark if you do and could do more harm than good.

There is a reason why it is a hidden set of menu's after all.

[Jim Di Griz]

Originally Posted by Ghostrider

This question always crops up.

He could and may post up his settings for you but believe me they won't do you any good whatsoever as each TV needs to be set differently.

His settings or mine MAY make your picture better but equally they could make it a lot worse.

If you have got a EyeOne or similar and the HCFR Software then by all means have a go - if you haven't then please take this advice - stick with a DVE Essentials disc or the free downloadable patterns referred to in this thread and don't go near the Service Menu as you will be stumbling around in the dark if you do and could do more harm than good.

There is a reason why it is a hidden set of menu's after all.

I think Hodg has emailed you about this but Tele gave me the link for this thread so I thought I might as well ask!

Does the recent update improve colours? My G10 isnt calibrated. Do you know if the update does anything apart from fix 1080p issues with a few things and stop ITV dimming (Ive had neither of these problems which is why I havent updated....yet)

[rgb31]

i have the spyder 3 tv is it good for that
by the way what does RGB DRV means and what does RGB CUT means
wich one is the RGBLowEnd and wich is the RGBHighEnd ?

[blitzed]

As Ian said using settings from someone else's doesnt really work,
I tried Ians but they wern't right for my set although that was before i updated
Heres mine anyways:

Rcut: 87
Gcut: 86
Bcut: 87

Rdrv: FD
Gdrv: C6
Bdrv: A0

All cut: 87
All drv: FD

contrast 41 clicks right from empty bar
Bright 17 clicks right from empty bar
Colour 35 clicks right from empty bar
Sharp 2 clicks right from empty bar

Jim Di Griz
I found updating sorted out my colour problems if you read all the thread and look at the graphs i posted i had problems getting the colours high enough then when i updated it was easy they seemed to be brighter.

I too had no other problems or issues before the update and wouldnt of bothered updating it untill i tried the calibration.

I returned a lg ps3000 after major issues with ir and am so glad i did now especially after the calibration the difference is outstanding.

Eddie

[blitzed]

Originally Posted by rgb31

i have the spyder 3 tv is it good for that
by the way what does RGB DRV means and what does RGB CUT means
wich one is the RGBLowEnd and wich is the RGBHighEnd ?

RGBLowEnd = Cut
RGBHighEnd = Drv

have no idea about spider 3 i bought the I1 as thats what was reccomended to me.

Eddie

[Jim Di Griz]

Originally Posted by blitzed

As Ian said using settings from someone else's doesnt really work,
I tried Ians but they wern't right for my set although that was before i updated
Heres mine anyways:

Rcut: 87
Gcut: 86
Bcut: 87

Rdrv: FD
Gdrv: C6
Bdrv: A0

All cut: 87
All drv: FD

contrast 41 clicks right from empty bar
Bright 17 clicks right from empty bar
Colour 35 clicks right from empty bar
Sharp 2 clicks right from empty bar

Jim Di Griz
I found updating sorted out my colour problems if you read all the thread and look at the graphs i posted i had problems getting the colours high enough then when i updated it was easy they seemed to be brighter.

I too had no other problems or issues before the update and wouldnt of bothered updating it untill i tried the calibration.

I returned a lg ps3000 after major issues with ir and am so glad i did now especially after the calibration the difference is outstanding.

Eddie

Thanks Eddie. The graphs and technical details were a little beyond me though! .

So you had your G10 calibrated and then did the Panasonic update and noticed an improvement?

So, presumably, my uncalibrated G10 will get a colour improvement from using the update?

Sorry to keep saying the same thing but, like you, Ive had no problems at all with my G10 and only want to update if there is a benefit in doing so.

[JohnG]

Originally Posted by Jim Di Griz

Sorry to keep saying the same thing but, like you, Ive had no problems at all with my G10 and only want to update if there is a benefit in doing so.

I'm in the same boat

[blitzed]

Originally Posted by Jim Di Griz

Thanks Eddie. The graphs and technical details were a little beyond me though! .

So you had your G10 calibrated and then did the Panasonic update and noticed an improvement?

So, presumably, my uncalibrated G10 will get a colour improvement from using the update?

Sorry to keep saying the same thing but, like you, Ive had no problems at all with my G10 and only want to update if there is a benefit in doing so.

What happened was before the update i couldnt get the colours to go high enough to get the calibration right.
it was only after the update i could get the colours to go right and calibration was a lot easier.

I didnt think to take note of the settings after the update as I had the out of the box settings wrote down.
Allthough im sure the AllDrv setting had changed but couldnt be 100% now

So for me yes the update definately improved the colours and i still had no issues or problems after the update.

Eddie

[Iain Gibson]

Just a note about these settings -- in the service manual, Panasonic recommend a maximum RGB Drive value of FC, so you might want to re-do grayscale with that in mind. (Hopefully lowering by 1 click each will do it!)

Cheers,
Iain

Originally Posted by blitzed

As Ian said using settings from someone else's doesnt really work,
I tried Ians but they wern't right for my set although that was before i updated
Heres mine anyways:

Rcut: 87
Gcut: 86
Bcut: 87

Rdrv: FD
Gdrv: C6
Bdrv: A0

All cut: 87
All drv: FD

contrast 41 clicks right from empty bar
Bright 17 clicks right from empty bar
Colour 35 clicks right from empty bar
Sharp 2 clicks right from empty bar

Jim Di Griz
I found updating sorted out my colour problems if you read all the thread and look at the graphs i posted i had problems getting the colours high enough then when i updated it was easy they seemed to be brighter.

I too had no other problems or issues before the update and wouldnt of bothered updating it untill i tried the calibration.

I returned a lg ps3000 after major issues with ir and am so glad i did now especially after the calibration the difference is outstanding.

Eddie

[rgb31]

Originally Posted by blitzed

As Ian said using settings from someone else's doesnt really work,
I tried Ians but they wern't right for my set although that was before i updated
Heres mine anyways:

Rcut: 87
Gcut: 86
Bcut: 87

Rdrv: FD
Gdrv: C6
Bdrv: A0

All cut: 87
All drv: FD

contrast 41 clicks right from empty bar
Bright 17 clicks right from empty bar
Colour 35 clicks right from empty bar
Sharp 2 clicks right from empty bar

Jim Di Griz
I found updating sorted out my colour problems if you read all the thread and look at the graphs i posted i had problems getting the colours high enough then when i updated it was easy they seemed to be brighter.

I too had no other problems or issues before the update and wouldnt of bothered updating it untill i tried the calibration.

I returned a lg ps3000 after major issues with ir and am so glad i did now especially after the calibration the difference is outstanding.

Eddie

i dont anderstand your picture settings
how many clicks from the left to fil the bar did you do

[blitzed]

take all setting to zero so you empty the bars the click to the right
contrast 41 clicks right from empty bar
Bright 17 clicks right from empty bar
Colour 35 clicks right from empty bar
Sharp 2 clicks right from empty bar

[rgb31]

isn't the brightnes very low ?

[Mark Hodgkinson]

Originally Posted by rgb31

isn't the brightnes very low ?

It is compared to mine but then again contrast is high in comparison. Whatever works I guess

[Jim Di Griz]

Every set is different and our eyes are all different of course! And thats before calibration etc...

I have my brightness set just below halfway - one notch below halfway gets rid of the 'motes' that are visible (on close examination) in the black borders on 2:35etc films. They are visible on exactly halfway and above. Seems right to me anyway.

Try it yourself - put a 2:35etc film on with borders. Push the brightness right up (it will look horrible of course) then start reducing it. Look in the border carefully. Just below halfway the 'motes' will vanish - thats the setting for me.

[Ghostrider]

Originally Posted by Jim Di Griz

I think Hodg has emailed you about this but Tele gave me the link for this thread so I thought I might as well ask!

Does the recent update improve colours? My G10 isnt calibrated. Do you know if the update does anything apart from fix 1080p issues with a few things and stop ITV dimming (Ive had neither of these problems which is why I havent updated....yet)

Haven't bothered to upgrade yet m8 - been too busy and haven't bought a CF card yet.

The joys of being self employed.

[Ghostrider]

Originally Posted by hodg100

It is compared to mine but then again contrast is high in comparison. Whatever works I guess

If all the sets were the same then Panny would set them at the factory and be done with it.

It's probably fair to say that all of the sets are "similar" but if you want perfection then you have to put in some effort.