[dtobin]

Hi,

My 3g iphone died last week!
It would not boot-up past the apple logo. I tried restoring it, dfu mode, everything, but my pc will not even see it and it freezes on every start-up.

I took it back to O2 and they sent it to Apple for repair. Today I got a call from the store telling me that it was back from repair.
However, apple hadn't repaired it. I questioned why and they said it was because signs of liquid damage had been discovered. I have had the phone in a case since day one (about 5 months ago) and know for a fact that it has come into contact with no liquid at all.

I phoned apple direct and they refused to budge on their decision, stating that this test "was never wrong" and that my repair will not be being carried out under warranty under any circumstances.

I then tried O2 who claimed that they have no option but to follow apple's lead and refused to replace my handset.

So I am now left with no phone and £35 p/m to pay for the next year and am really, really angry.

Any advice?

Cheers

[mattrixdesign2]

I would suggest two things:

1/ A stongly worded letter stating the FACTs (inc Dates, issues) sent to the Customer Service Director of Both Apple and O2 (make it clear you a copying each person). Send it recorded!!!

Give them time to respond, I think its 14 or 21 days.


Depending on the response...

2/ Make contact with Trading Standards and seek advise - after speaking to them they may suggest you make contact again (tell Apple/02 your intentions), alternatively Trading Standards me do it for you.

See how you get on.


Trading Standards offer a great FREE service, they helped to solve a dodgy fridge freezer that Currys sold me (there were adamant it was Hotpoints responsibility). In this instand Trading Standars did all the work.

I also manage to resolve a problem with an Orange/HTC over a phone that stopped working part way through a contract - Problem is they blame each other and will not accept responsibility, its even worse if you don't take out their stupid insurance which I always refuse.

It took about 3 strongly worded letters to Orange Customer Service Director to resolve - they eventually sent me a new phone, but insisted it wasn't their reposibility.

[hibee7062]

I would maybe check if it is covered under your home & contents insurance. They would probably be my own port of call personally because I bought my 2g iPhone from a seller on Ebay and it's since been jailbroken (by me) to use on other networks, so I'd have no way of going back to Apple if it was irretrievably knackered.

Mine actually crashed the other day there and then refuse to fire back up - eventually it did though after holding the Home button and the Power button together for about 30 secs or so.

Do you have insurance for the phone through 02? If so, it might be worth even trying to say you've dropped or lost the blighter.

[Inishmore]

At the top of the phone where the jack plug is if you look inside that you can see a piece of metal......if that is not white then this is where they get their evidence of liquid

[dtobin]

I have no insurance for it and I've checked the home insurance and it's not covered.

I think I'm going to go down the strongly worded letter route but before that I might pop to the Apple Store tonight and try my luck. You never know.

[cw2k]

Originally Posted by dtobin

I questioned why and they said it was because signs of liquid damage had been discovered. I have had the phone in a case since day one (about 5 months ago) and know for a fact that it has come into contact with no liquid at all.

I phoned apple direct and they refused to budge on their decision, stating that this test "was never wrong" and that my repair will not be being carried out under warranty under any circumstances.

Inside the iphone are a number of tiny moisture detectors. Any exposure to water causes them to change colour (pink or red). If apple sees it they automatically declare it water damaged and so refuse warranty repair.

If you look in the headphone jack you should see a white disc at the end, thats one of the detectors. A damp headphone connector might be able to set it off.

Apple has added these detectors to their laptops as well (including under the keyboard). An increasing number of mobile companies are adding them to their mobiles as well.

[Gamezvile]

Make a genius appointment, say the phone kept crasing and stuff before it died, the genius will run a few checks and agree that 'its not doing what it should be' , fill a few forms in and hopefuly they will replace it there and then! they did for me and that was only because internet kept crashing, If not check your house insurance as it could well be covered under that.

[Sy1441]

I work in the mobile industry and the amount of liquid contaminated handsets we see is huge.

Liquid contamination can be caused by a variety of things :-

Submersion in liquid
Steam from shower/kettle/cooker entering phone, cooling and causing damage
Use in light/heavy rain
Storage in a pocket/bag when out in the rain
Use in a very humid country for any prolonged period


There are indicators inside most handsets which are only used as indicators, not for engineer reports. The engineers should be able to supply you with a photo of the actual corrosion damage to the components. I know this is supplied as standard from T-Mobile's repairers.


I wouldn't waste your time with the advice above to be honest, just take it as a lesson learned that its well worth insuring your beloved gadgets!!

[dtobin]

just got back from the genius bar.

they confirmed the phone as faulty but also showed me the moisture detector and it was red. still don't believe it has come into contact with liquid at all.

so, no repair or replacement and 12 months of a contract left to pay.

[mattrixdesign2]

Hi

You say it didn't come into contact with moisture, have you ever left it in your car over night or similar? Used it in the rain? Etc etc?

If you are sure you have kept it from moisture and used it sensibly I would still argue your case.

[dtobin]

Originally Posted by mattrixdesign2

Hi

You say it didn't come into contact with moisture, have you ever left it in your car over night or similar? Used it in the rain? Etc etc?

If you are sure you have kept it from moisture and used it sensibly I would still argue your case.

I am as sure as I can be that it has never had any liquid contact at all.

I don't really see where I can regarding arguing the case, I have spoke to the Head of Customer Relations at both Apple and O2. Neither are interested at all.

Looks like I'll be selling it on ebay for parts.

[mattrixdesign2]

its up to you obviously, sorry about the bad news, but if you really feel you have done everything right you should stick to your guns.

[Markee]

Just thought, but if this moisture detector is in the head phone jack, which points up when the phone is in use, and moisture gets in during use in light rain, surely there is a fit for purpose issue here?

Does the iPhone documentation say anywhere the phone shouldn't be used when raining?

I can understand Apples stance on use around kettles / cooking / shower etc, but surely the phone should be usable in the rain, considering the weather in this country!

I wonder how many other people are going around unaware their iPhone warranty is void cos they've used it in the rain?

[dtobin]

Originally Posted by Markee

Just thought, but if this moisture detector is in the head phone jack, which points up when the phone is in use, and moisture gets in during use in light rain, surely there is a fit for purpose issue here?

Does the iPhone documentation say anywhere the phone shouldn't be used when raining?

I can understand Apples stance on use around kettles / cooking / shower etc, but surely the phone should be usable in the rain, considering the weather in this country!

I wonder how many other people are going around unaware their iPhone warranty is void cos they've used it in the rain?

That was an argument I used on the phone to apple when she accepted that the sensor could be triggered by just 1 drop of rainwater but she just re-iterated the fact the she and no-one else at apple (I have since spoke to someone else who works at apple who confirmed this) would ever go against the condition of this sensor.

I asked trading-standards about the not fit for use angle and they said if it came down to a legal argument I would have to find an independent expert who would back me up on the idea of the sensor being too sensitive or unfairly positioned. They also said it's unlikey that any such expert exists.

I would advice all iphone owners to check the condition of there sensors, one inside the headphone jack and one inside the dock connection. I reckon there could be thousands of people walking around with no warranty on their phones.

[mattrixdesign2]

You know - Apple have quite a worring build quality and can be real arses to deal with.

I forgot about the 1st gen Nano I bought from Apple online several years ago, it was a present for the Mrs at Christmas and it failed miserably on Xmas day. It took me weeks to sort it out

[dtobin]

I've had to send 3 ipods back to apple in the past and they've been excellent every time. Quick turnarounds and good customer service.

This just seems like an issue they are digging their heels in over and not going to be moved.

I must admit though, a small part of me thinks they've placed these sensors where they have to catch people out and reduce their warranty repair numbers rather than just helping them to recognise invalid claims.

[dtobin]

Result.

Just had an out of the blue phone call from senior manager at O2.

Without me saying anything he offered me a replacement iphone. Seems my complaints yesterday finally got through to someone with enough sense and authority to sort the issue.

[ROBIN50N]

Originally Posted by dtobin

Result.

Just had an out of the blue phone call from senior manager at O2.

Without me saying anything he offered me a replacement iphone. Seems my complaints yesterday finally got through to someone with enough sense and authority to sort the issue.

good result in the end there mate.

[dtobin]

Definitely. Persistance won out in the end.

[ROBIN50N]

are they letting you go pick one up from a shop or they sending you one out?

[dtobin]

Sending one out. Would rather collect one but I think I'll just let that ride and be grateful that they came to their senses at all.

[Golf_turbo]

Nice one mate.

That's probably because the moisture sensors are only inidicatiors, and would need actual water corrosion to invalidate a warranty.

They just hope 99% of people will back down!

Congrats.

To be fair though, i have used my iPhone in the rain a few times, touched it with very wet soapy hands while in the bath and obivously the steam from the bath too and all my external senors are fine.

On some phones (N95 for example) you can peel the sticker off as it is very easy to get to. Then, they can't prove anything (unless it is very badly water damaged and does have corrosion!).

[sim667]

Contact trading standards and the CAB

Stop your direct debit til O2 until the situation is sorted.

[mattrixdesign2]

Originally Posted by sim667

Contact trading standards and the CAB

Stop your direct debit til O2 until the situation is sorted.

Not any more, O2 sorted it for him

[dtobin]

Originally Posted by mattrixdesign2

Not any more, O2 sorted it for him

Yep O2 came through in the end.

Very dissapointed and surprised by Apple's attitude though, not like what I've previously experienced from them.

[J7MAN]

Good result. Things like that are why I've been with o2 for 8 years. Never had any trouble from them.

[StuBFrost]

Originally Posted by sim667

Contact trading standards and the CAB

Stop your direct debit til O2 until the situation is sorted.

You should never stop a direct debit when in dispute since you will almost certainly get a black mark against your credit file that may take ages to get removed.

[Sy1441]

Originally Posted by sim667

Contact trading standards and the CAB

Stop your direct debit til O2 until the situation is sorted.

Stupid comment to make.

[thelurch]

Ive just taken my 3rd iphone 2nd Gen back to O2

This is after my original I got when I took out the contract at the begining of November decided all it would do was flash the apple logo every 30 seconds and nothing else. That was after 2 days use!

The brand new replacement has been faultless until this Saturday when I tried to make a call, at home and it immediately said call failed and the signal bars ( which were on full ) went to nothing, then the phone started freezing, I couldnt turn it off. Then applications would randomly start. Safari would not connect to the net and I couldnt update my mail. Eventually I managed to turn it off.

Once it rebooted it was fine...everything worked until I tried to make a call and then it just did the same thing.

The guy in O2 today agreed it was faulty and its been sent off, unfortunately they didnt have any loan phones in stock so I hope it will be quick!

I found this thread this morning and is very interesting reading, I had no idea they had such things as moisture sensors. It will be interesting if I get the same response from the engineers, as I know for a fact its not been anywhere near any liquid, humid atmosphere,swimming pool or sauna.
Ive never used it in the rain and Ive never plugged headphones in the headphone socket. Its only ever been on a shelf in the lounge, my bedside cabinet, against my ear, in my hand or in my shirt pocket.

Its never been dropped, banged or bashed and is encased in an Elan Griffin case.

I absolutely love the phone but Im now more than a little concerned about the reliability of this phone, especially as Ive looked after it like a baby! this must be a hardware/circuitry problem.

My wife was just about to get one after using mine.

So we shall see. Hopefully I will get no problems but if they do use the moisture sensor get out then I would like Apple to tell us users exactly what we have to do to protect our phones from damage.And as a previous poster said, there may will be 1000s of people with iphones which have no warranty on them and dont know it.

I will report back with any news

[dtobin]

Originally Posted by thelurch

It will be interesting if I get the same response from the engineers, as I know for a fact its not been anywhere near any liquid, humid atmosphere,swimming pool or sauna.

This was exactly the same with me but the sensor was tripped somehow.

Good luck.