[The Captain]

I'm currently 6 months into an 18 month Vodafone contract. I would like to get the iphone, but don't want to spend over £200 to buy my contract.

So I was thinking about picking up an unlocked Iphone 3g from Italy using it with my vodafone sim and then moving across to O2 as they appear to have decent tariffs.

My questions:

I have read that if you buy an Iphone in Italy, then it is unlocked....so will this work on my vodafone sim?

Can I then move to O2 and will it also work on a simplicity tariff sim?

The Italian Iphone retails at £400, the O2 PAYG phone is £360, however can I do the same thing with the O2 PAYG iphone, i.e. is it unlocked or will it only work properly with O2?

I appreciate that this may have been asked on numerous occasions, but there are so many different opinions. I suppose when the PAYG phone comes out I'll have a better idea!

Many thanks.

[The Captain]

Found out the answer. Only the Italian one will work as the PAYG will be locked to O2.

[Matt_C]

It's something I have been looking into a lot myself, as I really want an iPhone but don't want to buy out my T-Mobile contract (£355) and don't want to go onto o2 anyway, and certainly don't want two contracts running side by side (my T-Mobile one and a new o2 one for the iPhone)

So I have been looking at trying to get an Italian iPhone - and if you can get one for £400 then do it as they are selling over here for upwards of £550, some as much as £700/£800!

As for your answer, as you said, you already found it; the o2 PAYG will still be locked to o2 SIM cards

Let me know if you go for getting one from Italy as I might come in on this deal with you, as I very much want one......

[dblack1]

So,

is this the same situation with a French Iphone and my Orange contract?

would I be able to get an iphone from france and use my orange UK sim car in it over here?

would it be fully functional?

thanks for the help lads

D

[Matt_C]

French iPhones are locked to Orange network, so you shouldn't have a problem putting a UK Orange SIM in it if what T-Mobile tell me is correct (as I asked about getting a German iPhone, locked to T-Mobile, and using with a UK T-Mobile SIM, which they said should work, except for visual voicemail, which probably wouldn't work)

As for officially unlocked iPhone 3G's, here's the list;

http://support.apple.com/kb/HT1937

So thats Hong Kong, Italy, Greece, Czech Republic, Macau, New Zealand, and Singapore

[The Captain]

I assume it would be better to get an unlocked one as then you can use it with any network......

[hutch]

Originally Posted by Matt_C

French iPhones are locked to Orange network, so you shouldn't have a problem putting a UK Orange SIM in it if what T-Mobile tell me is correct (as I asked about getting a German iPhone, locked to T-Mobile, and using with a UK T-Mobile SIM, which they said should work, except for visual voicemail, which probably wouldn't work)

Just because a phone is locked to a Network doesnt mean it will work with a sim card from that carrier in a different country, from my experience all carriers have different country "codes" which means you cant use them in different countries.

Originally Posted by Matt_C

As for officially unlocked iPhone 3G's, here's the list;

http://support.apple.com/kb/HT1937

So thats Hong Kong, Italy, Greece, Czech Republic, Macau, New Zealand, and Singapore

Plus all the countries which you can contact the carrier to unlock.

Just bear in mind that if you buy an officially unlocked iPhone it still wont have a warranty so if something goes wrong it wont be covered.

[The Captain]

I believe the Iphone has a 2 year European Warranty and a 1 year worldwide warranty...not sure if it makes sense, but the warranty should be valid in the EU....

[ash]

How much is the iPhone being sold for in Italy?

[The Captain]

£400, which will be £40 more than the locked O2 PAYG coming next week.....

[Moogle]

Originally Posted by The Captain

I believe the Iphone has a 2 year European Warranty and a 1 year worldwide warranty...not sure if it makes sense, but the warranty should be valid in the EU....

That is incorrect. Apple does give a one year warranty on it but they will not honour the warranty on foreign iPhones. They have signs posted in all their stores and if you ask any of their sales people they will tell you the same. If you buy an Italian phone and something goes wrong with it Apple UK will not help you even if it does have an EU warranty as well.

[The Captain]

I stand corrected....so this is the big problem - is it worth the risk....Now I don't think so.....there goes another way of getting an iphone.

[Matt_C]

Originally Posted by hutch.

Just because a phone is locked to a Network doesnt mean it will work with a sim card from that carrier in a different country, from my experience all carriers have different country "codes" which means you cant use them in different countries.

I'm only going on what the guys from both T-Mobile UK and T-Mobile Germany said.....

Originally Posted by hutch.

Plus all the countries which you can contact the carrier to unlock.

So..... Which countries are these? And how do you contact the carrier to unlock?

[Matt_C]

The Captain - re-reading your initial post, since you intend to switch onto o2 after your Voda contract runs out anyway, you're probably best off buying out your contract for that £200 and getting a new contract (and iPhone) from o2, as importing one is gonna cost £400 + the shipping + the import duty, and you don't get any carrier support (ie if settings or something goes wrong you can ring Voda to sort it, they probably won't help you if you have an iPhone), and you don't get warrenty cover - so for £200 outlay, I'd be buying it out and switching..

My problem is my buy-out is £355, and I don't want to move to o2. I like my T-Mobile tariff, don't want to lose it, don't want to move to an o2 contract with inferior recpetion, especially with 3G coverage, nor do I want to have to get a new number by getting a new o2 contract and running it side by side with my T-Mobile contract....

[The Captain]

Is O2 really bad? I've heard that with the new firmware 3g is working well.

[Matt_C]

It's their coverage. My friend at work has both an iPhone and a Nokia N95 on o2 contracts, and I can get 3G web n walk service in many places he can't get any.....

[5to1]

Originally Posted by Matt_C

French iPhones are locked to Orange network, so you shouldn't have a problem putting a UK Orange SIM in it if what T-Mobile tell me is correct (as I asked about getting a German iPhone, locked to T-Mobile, and using with a UK T-Mobile SIM, which they said should work, except for visual voicemail, which probably wouldn't work)

As for officially unlocked iPhone 3G's, here's the list;

http://support.apple.com/kb/HT1937

So thats Hong Kong, Italy, Greece, Czech Republic, Macau, New Zealand, and Singapore

The sim lock uses the MCC + MNC. Orange UK and Orange France will have different MCC + MNC, therefore a locked phone from one network will not work with the other.

The network may however give you the unlock code, as unless they operate as completely different entities they will have access to it. (They are not obliged to give you the code until the contract on which the phone was purchased has been payed out/completed. But they will sometimes do it for long standing customers/etc, you will ofcourse still be liable to complete your contract. There is usually a cost for this ofcourse, around £20-£30 I believe).

[ROBIN50N]

Originally Posted by The Captain

Is O2 really bad? I've heard that with the new firmware 3g is working well.

with the update 3g signal seems good.

[amcluesent]

So, what's to stop me getting a cheapo flight with Ryanair to Rome, using CC to buy an unlocked iPhone in a shop and returning to the UK to use with an O2 SIM from my current 18 month contract? Can you just walk into a Vodafone shop in Rome and buy an iPhone over the counter?

[JonStatt]

As a PAYG phone does not have a contract, don't O2 legally HAVE to provide you with an unlock code (albeit with an administration charge), from day 1?

Secondly, regardless of what Apple say about the warranty, if you purchase anywhere in the EU, Apple has to honour the warranty no matter what they say. They could ask you to send it back to a service centre in the country of purchase, but they cannot say you have no warranty. That would be against EU regulations.

[The Captain]

Originally Posted by JonStatt

As a PAYG phone does not have a contract, don't O2 legally HAVE to provide you with an unlock code (albeit with an administration charge), from day 1?

Secondly, regardless of what Apple say about the warranty, if you purchase anywhere in the EU, Apple has to honour the warranty no matter what they say. They could ask you to send it back to a service centre in the country of purchase, but they cannot say you have no warranty. That would be against EU regulations.

Not sure about your first point, I think if it could be done, then people would already have done it?

Your second point is correct, but the hassle is to send it to Apple in italy as opposed to walking in to an Apple store in London for example.

[5to1]

Originally Posted by JonStatt

As a PAYG phone does not have a contract, don't O2 legally HAVE to provide you with an unlock code (albeit with an administration charge), from day 1?

Secondly, regardless of what Apple say about the warranty, if you purchase anywhere in the EU, Apple has to honour the warranty no matter what they say. They could ask you to send it back to a service centre in the country of purchase, but they cannot say you have no warranty. That would be against EU regulations.

First point. There is still an implied contract of purchase, with details listed in the terms an conditions. You'll usually find that these state the phone is locked, can only be used on said network and may justify this by saying its subsidised or something. They will however agree to unlock it after a certain amount of topups and possibly a minimum period of time for "halo" phones like the iPhone.

Secondly, given the nature of the product, I'd be suprised if they didn't capitulate given some well worded emails/letters. Its clear that restricting the warranty to country of purchase impinges on cross border trade. And further considering its a product you are likely to take with you when you travel, it adversely affects the consumer for no good reason but to protect Apples margins/deals. I think they are simply making it as difficult as possible, but will give in if you push them in the right way.

[Matt_C]

amcluesent - Nothing at all. And as far as I have been told, yes - any Vodafone shop in Italy (along with Voda in Greece and New Zealand) will sell you an iPhone 3G without a contract : just the phone in a box. After speaking to both T-Mobile and Vodafone over here in the UK, aswell as the CPW, all have said they will work on the UK networks no problem, and both T-Mob and Voda have said there shouldn't be a single issue putting a UK SIM into the iPhone, but the CPW were the only ones to say that they aren't 100% sure the phones aren't country locked. They said it was highly unlikely as people do use them abroad and often buy cheap disposable sims to avoid high roaming charges, but they wouldn't want to say 100% - probably just to cover themselves I should think.

However, it is HIGHLY unlikely you will get any warrenty over here with an imported phone...

JonStatt - o2 PAYG phones are sold with a 12 mth contract! It's not a contract like the "contract" contracts, but it's a 12mth "plan" if you like, for that number that gives you 12mths of free wifi and 3G (allgedly) access - apparently all you pay for are calls and texts. After the 12mths is up, you have to pay £10 a month to continue the 3G and wifi access, plus whatever your calls and texts come to.... Strangest "PAYG" set up I ever heard!

[hutch]

Originally Posted by amcluesent

So, what's to stop me getting a cheapo flight with Ryanair to Rome, using CC to buy an unlocked iPhone in a shop and returning to the UK to use with an O2 SIM from my current 18 month contract? Can you just walk into a Vodafone shop in Rome and buy an iPhone over the counter?

Well I live in Australia and you can buy a prepaid iPhone over the counter and pay $80 (about 40 quid) to have it unlocked officially. They will not however sell the unlock to anyone who hasnt got Australian ID and an Australian address.

[Moogle]

Originally Posted by JonStatt

As a PAYG phone does not have a contract, don't O2 legally HAVE to provide you with an unlock code (albeit with an administration charge), from day 1?

Secondly, regardless of what Apple say about the warranty, if you purchase anywhere in the EU, Apple has to honour the warranty no matter what they say. They could ask you to send it back to a service centre in the country of purchase, but they cannot say you have no warranty. That would be against EU regulations.

That is the point really. It's not that there is no warrranty on it. The problem is that Apple UK will not honour it and it will be have to be repaired either by Apple or an authorized repair company in the country of origin. That is obviously a lot of hassle. You can't just walk in to an Apple store here in the UK or a CPW or O2 store if you bought it from there and expect it to get it repaired if you imported it from abroad.

[twilight08]

Originally Posted by JonStatt

As a PAYG phone does not have a contract, don't O2 legally HAVE to provide you with an unlock code (albeit with an administration charge), from day 1?

From what I have read they get around this by adding an extra line to the contract terms which basically says you agree to use the phone on 02 only in the UK .

[ROBIN50N]

Originally Posted by twilight08

From what I have read they get around this by adding an extra line to the contract terms which basically says you agree to use the phone on 02 only in the UK .

am sure pay and go phones can be unlocked after 12 months use on the network then your free to unlock.

[hutch]

There is no law which says any phone should be unlocked after a certain time and as Twilight says there will be something in the T&C where you have to agree to using in the UK on the O2 network.

[ruth11]

Anyone tried one of the various turbo-sim style options for unlocking? I'm considering the PAYG iPhone to use with my current 3 contract and have been looking into this option - for £20, why not?

I think I'm going to buy a turbo-sim and see if it successfully unlocks my N95 (which is locked to 3), then will try it in a friend's iphone....

[amcluesent]

So Ryanair do a day trip from London to (near)Rome for £43 all taxes paid. The Vodafone Italy web site isn't too clear about over the counter sales of iPhones, it all seems gears to online sales. Might have to pop along to my local Italian for a meal and some translations