[Stinja]

Originally Posted by ModBoy

Also, seeing as the iPad has its own sub boards - you can now feel free to start threads about different issues and points if you so wish

So i thought a thread which is less about chit-chat and "Teh iTampon is Teh suxxor!!11!" and more a polite and civilised discussion on how it compares to other tablets

To kick this off, here's the iPad's stats: Apple - iPad - Technical specifications and accessories for iPad.

Other options seem a bit messy at the moment, there's a lot of eBook readers that are very limited, some poor reviewing tablets, and some very small devices (5" - 7"). These are the ones i'm keeping an eye on:

The iRex DR800SG looks like it would tick most boxes as just a reader, but i cant see it supplied anywhere despite being released last September supposedly: iRex DR800SG Hands On: An Ebook Reader, Unchained - iRex DR800SG - Gizmodo

Not sure about the Kindle DX, it seems to have pdf support, but then dosent let you add notes, zoom or click thru links: Technical Document PDFs on the Kindle DX — Matthew Williams
Kindle DX PDF FAQ « Kindle Review – Kindle 2 Review, Books

Plastic Logic Que proReader? No price or date? But seems much better for technical documents than all the ones designed for novels:
Que: Plastic Logic's Capacitive-Touch Ebook Reader - que - Gizmodo
Plastic Logic QUE proReader first hands-on (with video!) -- Engadget

Samsung 10" models?
Samsung announces E6 and E10 e-book readers at CES -- Engadget

Tablets which i like the sound of:

The Pixel Qi's "Transflective LCD" is a very interesting development, worth clicking the links and checking out the videos:
E-Ink Is Dead, Pixel Qi's Amazing Transflective LCD Just Killed It - Notebooks - Gizmodo

Notion Ink Adam protoype reader with the Pixel Qi screen:
Notion Ink Adam Pixel Qi Tablet/Ereader Hands On: Your Screen Is Obsolete - notion ink adam - Gizmodo

The Archos 9 appears to tick most boxes for me except for no SD slot (not a biggie) and somewhat poor video playback. I found a big video hands on here:

YouTube - Archos 9 Live Testing. 1.5hr!

Yes it isnt super fast, massive battery life or small form factor, but those arent real issues for me. Main problems seem to be the TV tuner isnt out and Windows 7 being forced upon you.

Other options which are 9" or bigger and PCs (not internet devices) all have various issues, so nothing perfect out there yet: TabletKiosk Sahara i440D: YouTube - TabletKiosk Sahara i440D Slate PC Review

Viliv x70: YouTube - Viliv X70 Premium 3G review

JooJoo, which is sadly very fixed as an internet device: Joojoo tablet hands-on (video) -- Engadget

eviGroup: eviGroup 10.6″ ‘Pad’ gets Video Hands-on. Is on sale. Is in our Database. | UMPCPortal - Ultra Mobile Personal Computing

Oh yeah, and the Samsung Q1 Ultra has had a huge pricedrop, only £300-ish now!

[richard plumb]

All the other devices I've seen so far, seem like classic small company devices -they're computers with a new form factor. archos make great media players but their interface has always been clunky.

To me that (plus app store) is the differentiator between the ipad and the competition. I don't care about specs - the ipad looks to have decent enough specs for a first gen device to do pretty much what you need, and thats enough for me.

I'm curious where other companies go, now that Apple have shown their hand.

[Liquid101]

Originally Posted by richard plumb

All the other devices I've seen so far, seem like classic small company devices -they're computers with a new form factor. archos make great media players but their interface has always been clunky.

Agreed.

Shoving Windows in a tablet form is never going to work. While the iPad doesn't look perfect, the idea of having a custom built OS is going to be the difference.

performance wise - I don't think anything is going to touch it for a while. It seems to have plenty of grunt, and the OS is very simple. I suspect that Dev's are going to love it, and produce some great content.

[Stinja]

While i agree with you chaps, to play Satan's Advocate; it does seem like Windows 7 super-duper AAA edition is better for touch-input than past windoze efforts, and it's possible a better specced tablet, along with a freeer / less restrictive development environment will mean a greater user-configurable product in the longer term.

For example, Apple might block a business tool because it might be used to view pr0n on teh interwebz, on a Win7 tablet there'd be no vetting. Open source code to adjust it yourself? Better for so-called power users?

Mostly it will be interesting just to see if the iPad can push other devices into being better.

[richard plumb]

Isn't windows 7 'touch' just bigger buttons and double spacing in menus?

It isn't 'touch' replacing a mouse that interests me so much, its properly implemented touch throughout the device. Ground up developed for touch like the iphone OS.

I understand others might want an OS with touch, I want a touch OS.

[noidea]

I strongly agree with Richard Plumb. If the ipad had snow leopard on it I really wouldn't want it and likewise for a windows device - at that point the only differentiation from a laptop is the form factor. What currently drives me to sitting at home surfing on an iphone rather than one of our laptops we have (macbook and a windows one) is that the surfing experience is so superior on an iphone in my opinion.
Someone linked an article yesterday that nailed it for me - desktop operating systems are designed for creating files and media, the iphone operating system is designed for consuming media. If you want to do anything more than consume media, the laptop form factor is more suitable.

[Sonic67]

There's the HP Slate and others:

BBC News - Microsoft and HP show off 'slate' PC

HP's Windows 7 Slate Device Revealed by Steve Ballmer - Hp slate - Gizmodo

The Courier:

Courier: First Details of Microsoft's Secret Tablet - Microsoft courier tablet - Gizmodo

Archos 9:

http://www.archos.com/products/nb/archos_9/index.html

It would be interesting what Google could do with Chrome as well.

[Br0ken]

Many of those devices posted are proper PCs. It's too much for my needs of a device like this. The other eReaders are ok, but colour screen?

Has anyone seen a like-for-like or like-for-nearly-like device out there? Ideal would be a very similar device but half the price of the iPad lol

[Sonic67]

The original netbooks ran with just a Linux OS. There was quickly a feeling that this wasn't enough for people and soon Linux was junked in favour of XP. Now you will find only a few of the very cheapest netbooks still around are running Linux or being a small net device and running something like Windows CE.

It depends on their useage. If you are using it at home you always have your home PC. Away from home and it being your only device you might want more.

[Br0ken]

Yeh I really just want the lightweight OS so the iPhone OS is fine, its just the number of £'s that isn't lol

[noidea]

netbooks were introduced because people were using their laptops just for browsing and their specs were overkill. However when everyone and his uncle produced a netbook they started to compete with eachother on specs and now they have become just like laptops, albeit cheap ones.
Apple has started the process again of introducing a device that addresses the needs of those for whom a laptop is overkill and even before it is launched there is a clamour for more and more features that a desktop os can provide. To me it misses the point entirely.

[Br0ken]

Agreed noidea. Critics should accept it for what it is, not for what it isn't and decide on that. Its almost fine for what it is to me.

[silent ninja]

This device just needs to control your TV, your cooker, your lights, even the camera at your front door then you can let people in without getting up. Then we can all get fat together

[dejongj]

I must admit that off all the 'competition' I think only the courier is worthy of the reference. i think it looks very interesting what they are doing, and personally think more innovative than Apple has been with the iPad...However saying that I just can't help but expect that the real courier when/if it ever gets released is nothing going to be like that, it will be watered down just like those nice concept cars who then never make it into production....

Shame as that looks very promising...But I want it to integrate with iSync as a very minimum such that I can no fuss sync with music, contacts, calendar, media browser etc...And I just can't see that happen....

[Sonic67]

Netbooks were also popular because they were so cheap. Something I think Apple has missed the point of why they were so popular. You will still be able to get a netbook for at least half the price of an ipad and with more capacity, USB's, SD slots, webcam, multitasking, keyboard and with a 20 year back catalogue of software. Really they should never have been compared. It won't rival netbooks but it might sell as a lifestyle gadget.

[usenetz]

Google Chrome about to join the fray:

A First Taste Of What The Google Tablet’s Interface Will Look Like (Pics)
Tablet (The Chromium Projects)

john

[Stinja]

I really dont know about Google, Android seems to have the same issues as the iPad -> it's designed for phones, so you're scaling it up and hoping. While Chrome OS may just be a web browser with a few extras thrown on? At least nothing i've seen has made me go "wow".

There's an odd synergy between hardware and software for tablets, the hardware isn't really important if it does enough, noone is expecting them multi-dimensional guassian integrals, but software is a big bone of contention as people's needs are different. Catering for more needs means you need better hardware, which then reduces other important aspects like size/weight/batterylife, which then makes it less appealing to some, as you try to appeal to others. I dont think we'll know what works until a few devices are out there and us the buying public have a chance to vote with our wallets as to what we like and dont.

Saw this article which may be worth a read if you've got a spare 5 mins:

The Two Wrong Ways To Make a Tablet - Tablet interfaces - Gizmodo

[Sonic67]

Next Gen Archos 7 Android Tablet Leaks - Laptop News - TrustedReviews

we're actually talking about a base price of just £149.99

http://www.trustedreviews.com/laptop...ne-Ups-iPad/p1

[pcp]

Originally Posted by richard plumb

Isn't windows 7 'touch' just bigger buttons and double spacing in menus?

It isn't 'touch' replacing a mouse that interests me so much, its properly implemented touch throughout the device. Ground up developed for touch like the iphone OS.

I understand others might want an OS with touch, I want a touch OS.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding you but I was under the impression that W7 is fully multi touch integrated?

I was a little underwhelmed by the ipad, and I don't think there's a comparable device at present, except the iphone

Personally rather than mobility (we already have smartphones and laptops that IMO already out perform the ipad) I'm looking forward to fixed touch devices, can't wait to have a play with Surface, just to see if it works as well as the promos.

[dejongj]

I can't help but thinking that Apple does create a stir for other companies...Sure Apple is not so original, they buy up companies, disappoint peoples high expectations etc...But just like with the SmartPhones, tablets are now getting a proper revival with quite a few more credible players popping up opposed to the touchscreen windows machines with no other changes that have existed for over a decade...

So whilst arguably not the most original, or highest tech spec list (like the iPhone), they do get sector moving with their perceived inferior products...

[Iccz]

Originally Posted by dejongj

So whilst arguably not the most original, or highest tech spec list (like the iPhone), they do get sector moving with their perceived inferior products...

But were Apple the ones who started everyone moving on tablets?

I mean we've only had a couple of months of tablet rumours, all the companies working on tablet products have been developing them for a long time, who knows who was the first to do it and why everyone else is releasing them shortly. It wouldn't surprise me if Apple hear about it and quickly put one together to be the first to release it, but that's all speculation.

I do generally agree with what you're saying though.

[dejongj]

Tablets have been bubbling under the mainstream radar for a very long time...But just as we see now, the technology isn't really the issue in my opinion and lots of companies have those devices some better than others...But creating the software such that it works in harmony and provide that word a good user experience...That is a whole different ball game...And none of the competition have done that part yet besides very early prototypes....

That's perhaps a little better explained what I tried to state...I mean just take a look at the iPhone and the biggest argument used against it...Based upon tech specs nobody should have bought one, Nokia, Samsung, SonyEriksson all much better tech specs and still have...And they are still competing on tech specs....Even Android but in my opinion to a slightly lesser degree...I think the openess of Android whilst its greatest asset is also its biggest downfall...I mean it looks totally different on all the various phones...Bit like why again in my opinion Linux still hasn't made the big time...Great, stables, very open, does everything you want to do...But everything just works that little bit different, lack of consistency....Oh dare I say, why techies need management :-) Even ITIL recognises that...

[Sonic67]

None of this new crop of tablets has been a hit yet. There’s plenty of hype going around for those who are looking for it but not a single person has mentioned to me they want one or are interested in buying one outside of these forums. They might sell well, though they also just might stay as a niche product for geeks but don’t assume they are a hit or will be a hit until they actually out there and are as ubiquitous as netbooks or ipods. I can remember similar hype over launches of Apple TV and Macbook Airs but I’ve still yet to meet anyone who actually owns one.

Tablets aren’t new either. I had a HP PDA years ago which did contacts, music, games and photos. Tablet PCs have been around for ages and so have machines like the Samsung Q1. None of them were a hit as they fell between two stools. Too big for the pocket, not good enough for work. Time will tell if the market really wants this stuff. Even some of the posters on here have posted along the lines of, ‘I’ll buy it first, try and think what I will use it for later.’

The Gadget Show did bring up another point. E-readers were tested in the sun on holiday this week to see if it’s actually possible to read a book with light shining on the screen. Not being able to see the display is a problem with LCD screens in sunlight which could still mean the ipad won’t compete so well against e-readers and traditional books/newspapers.

Second the iphone is a sort of hit. It has influenced design and been a standard at which other phones are compared with but in terms of market share it’s still only 2% of the mobile phone market. The big player is still Nokia. At present now up to 39% of the mobile phone market and enjoying a resurgence.

BBC - dot.Rory: Nokia's quiet comeback

Nokia has also now announced an intention to open up its Symbian architecture. It will be interesting to see what happens as a result.

Linux has never been big as it has been lacking in a lot of things. Backing for one. People want to run Windows apps. Even Apple uses that as a selling point on its computers. Linux netbooks were not a hit like Windows netbooks were, as people preferred a Windows computer for doing their work on. They might have bought a netbook for the Internet but they still wanted to do work on it as well.

I’ve used Linux in the past but it requires some technical know-how, is lacking in games, and everyone else uses Microsoft Office and I want to use it too. In the end I thought it’s just tacking up hard drive space and ditched it.

(I also have an Android phone. Lack of consistency isn't a problem. I only have one Android phone and once you have anything for a few days you know how to use it.)

[dejongj]

People think they want to run Windows applications as that is all they've known for a long time ;-) The change is happening though to such an extend they realise there are very valid alternatives...

You'll see some very different statistics when you don't compare to just the phone market, but the smartphone segment within...Just left an 8000 people company who are phasing our RIM and changing over to iPhone fully, I think a lot are very slow to change since the low level techies still run some of the show in product selection...But that will change as well...

Totally agree about sunlight, but don't forget the LCD is not LCD...There are huge difference between them...and an S-IPS is a very good start, just need to get the coating right as well...But since the iPhone can be seen in Sunlight, I'm not too concerned about that...

[Tempest]

There seems to be a problem here.............

Making a notepad and slapping Windows onto it has been proven to not work. Albeit, to be fair there has not been any really powerful sexy hardware at the right price to make this happen either.

But putting restricted front end software does not work either as you are trying to second guess what everyone will want to do.

The joy of having full windows (for me) would be, "I" can decide the programs I do and don't want to run on my tablet, knowing I can make it exactly into what I want.

Give me something cut down that can't do 75% of what I want and I'm not a happy bunny.

Perhaps I want Word or Excel on a tablet, but again, perhaps I'm a teen and want facebook, MSN chat, Limewire and My favorite flash games site on it.

Perhaps I want to be able to touch up my photo's a little whilst I'm on holiday.

It's impossible to second guess what everyone will want.

Even for me, I have some video files that iTunes will not see, hence they are in the wrong format so I guess they need converting.

Perhaps in the end, it might actually be the real answer to make Tablets with Windows and OSX on them, and then wrap a nice tablet front end on top.

Then allowing programs in Windows or OSX to be pulled into the pretty tablet front end area.

So, you have the easy to use "light" front end, and yet, you can also select from the full range of software (for either system) to make it your own.

What do you think?

[dejongj]

I did 'screenscraping' in the early nineties to make the AS/400 user friendly ;-) On windows 3.11...Those are just little plasters...

I think the biggest challenge is that some people seem to want a tablet to do everything, I'd love my car to be able to fly and sail but I'd rather have limited devices that do the individual things great. Trust me my boat is a lot better on water than my car...

I think for your tempest, get one of those nice windows laptops with a hinged screen that you can flat around and then have a touch screen...And then you can do it all....

[Tempest]

Originally Posted by dejongj

I think for your tempest, get one of those nice windows laptops with a hinged screen that you can flat around and then have a touch screen...And then you can do it all....

I'd just like not being in the position of sitting on my sofa in the evening, tv on and tapping away at my iPad then thinking, oh, I can't do that, I'll have to wait till I'm back at my PC again and again and again.

Re flying cars it's not quite the same As if all it needed was some software to be loaded into your car and it flew, then I'm sure you'd want it

To be honest (not being an Apple user at the moment) I'd be happy with OSX as I know I could do what I wanted with it.

My issue (I know) it going to be how much I feel tied down and restricted when using a tablet.

And could be it's downfall if people keep putting it to one side and having to fire up the laptop for the 1 thing the tablet won't do, but they want to do.

My x's kids for example would love an iPad, but they also love their flash games web sites, so they would be screwed.

[dejongj]

So get the laptop as I suggested...

The real problem people don't seem to get is that one's finger is quite rudimentary...it is just not easy to create a user interface that does everything well (just incase someone wants to do something you haven't thought about). Then have keyboards slide in and out etc....I mean just look at Android on the phone horizontal there is qwerty and vertical there is T9...Not a great experience in consistency for users (well except that it consistently does that)...

But that is why it is good you have a choice, don't have to get an iPad...

[Sonic67]

Originally Posted by dejongj

Then have keyboards slide in and out etc....I mean just look at Android on the phone horizontal there is qwerty and vertical there is T9...Not a great experience in consistency for users (well except that it consistently does that)...

Yep I have the G1. One thing I've learned from it is that the next phone I have has to have a physical keyboard. Even if it means the phone is a bit fatter I find it so much better for typing.

Many Smartphone Users Veering Away From Touchscreen Handsets, Says Survey - ITProPortal.com

Survey: Less than half of touchscreen users prefer touchscreen

[dejongj]

Originally Posted by Sonic67

Yep I have the G1. One thing I've learned from it is that the next phone I have has to have a physical keyboard. Even if it means the phone is a bit fatter I find it so much better for typing.

Many Smartphone Users Veering Away From Touchscreen Handsets, Says Survey - ITProPortal.com

Survey: Less than half of touchscreen users prefer touchscreen

I thought that after the Motorola A1000 and was quite concerned about the iPhone (didn't have a touchscreen in between), but Apples combination of hardware and very very good software prediction does make it an incomprehensibly good system...My last customer insisted I need one of their secure phones and got a blackberry, yuk...You are just not allowed to touch the key next to the one you want by mistake....

Have you tried an iPhone for longer than say 10 days?