[Vipers @ Zinc-HT]

I've been on the lookout for a while now for a good interconnect to connect the analogues from my BD player to my processor and also to connect my Arcam P777 to the AV888 without spending silly money, its alot of cables

I've always used QED Reference cables in the past but thought I should try some other cables for a change, its always good to compare, I've got cables from Mark Grant before and know that his Canare LV61S analogues get great feedback on the forum so when I saw on his website that he had a new precision analogue cable I thought I'd get in touch with him to see what he had to say.

To cut a long story short he sent my a stereo pair to compare against my QED's, the results were very interesting so I thought I post my findings.

I spent a good afternoon comparing Marks new G1000HD with my QED Reference cables that I normally use, I was using the Arcam CD37, AVR 600 and PMC PB1i's, and I was suprised at the difference in sound between the two cables, people who say cables don't make any difference really do need to sit down and have a good listen on good kit. At first I wasn't sure what I preffered as the G1000HD cable seemed to give a fuller bottom end with more weight and drive to the overall sound and the QED didn't carry the bass but had a brighter top end which initially seemed quite appealing, I listened to various kinds of music from Massive Attack and Nine Inch Nails but then I tried the SACD of Brothers In Arms and straight away I found the presentation from Marks cable far more pleasing than the QED, I think I just needed to get used to the different sound that I'd become accustomed to, there is a guitar intro at the beginning of So Far Away and Marks cable added a richness to the sound that made the QED sound hollow and lacking in comparison and it was a pretty big difference.

Marks cable is 100% copper which if I'm right after reading many threads comparing copper to silver in interconnects takes away any brightness compared to the silver variants that are available, I suppose it comes down to individual tastes, as I guess what I call brightness others would call detail, I just know that I preffered the overall sound from the G1000HD, it was just smoother and over long listening periods wouldn't become fatiguing, anyway needless to say I ordered a good few sets to hook up my analogues and amp to processor. They are definately worth an audition

[Vipers @ Zinc-HT]

A big box turned up today full of pairs of G1000HD's, power cables and HDMI's Thanks Mark for the excellent service

Is it just me or does anyone else get excited by well made cables

[Slackadder]

Vipers,

Guilty as charged - cables are a weakness of mine too!

Anthony

[onthebeach]

Interesting results Vipers.

Its good now you have a few decent and varied interconnects you'll be able to change them around a bit and really get to know their differences. One day you might be able to bring a mate around to swap some cables around and do some blind testing.
That would be interesting and would get a good debate going around here especially if or when your blind testing confirms your current findings. Should be fun.

I often wonder why there are not more independent blind testing results posted when so many people feel passionately one way or the other.

When I get a few different interconnects of various kinds I'll defiantly get a good blind testing session going.

cheers.

[Vipers @ Zinc-HT]

It was difficult for this comparison to do it blind as I was on my lonesome and had to keep swapping cables round as quick as I could but I did a blind testing session with both myself and my wife with Mark Grants power cable as I'd heard such strong views for and against upgraded power cables and wanted to have my own opinion without any bias and the results were 100% in favour of the upgraded cable, making me a believer in the process :-

Stock vs Upgraded Power Cable Test.

Since doing the BD player shootout in blind testing conditions I've really come round to the idea of this way of testing, I think HI Fi Choice do some of their testing this way making the results far more believable as a consequence.

[Jonnycomelately]

Well I bought Mark Grant's G1000HD cable for my analogue outputs from the Panasonic BD80 Blu Ray player to my Arcam AVR300 and Monitor Audio Gold series 5.1 setup. As a cable sceptic I really wasn't sure if this was a good investment, but I was SO wrong! Having taken Mark's advice (not pushy at all, just very helpful) I ordered the cables and they were here in 48 hours. I have now spent a week testing them and the difference to my audio is amazing. Its much more realistic and movies seem to just be happening right in front of me in my listening room. There is more clarity and balance with no coloration. Really just transparent sound that makes me want to watch all my movies again! Superb value for money and I'm convinced that the RIGHT cables can actually make a difference. Also, Mark is a nice guy who is very helpful. Highly recommended.

[Alan Mac]

Originally Posted by vipers

... I was suprised at the difference in sound between the two cables, people who say cables don't make any difference really do need to sit down and have a good listen on good kit....

“Sitting down and having a good listen on good kit” in an endeavour to establish if cables make a difference to the “sound” is a pointless exercise.

We know from measurement that the electrical signal driving the loudspeakers is not significantly altered by the cables. This is a physical measurement, independent of human hearing.

We also know that human hearing is a poor measuring instrument. The brain is subject to many extraneous inputs which affect our perception and memory of the sound.

Given the above facts, it would be illogical to accept the results of a simple “just listen and believe your ears” test as being good evidence that cables make a “real” (ie. a physical) difference.


Alan

[scorpion88]

Decent cables costing £10 - £15.00 are just as good and it is the placebo effect you are experiencing IMHO.

I have tried the the freebie red and white cables and not noticed much noticeable difference.

Just my opionion but all the best if it significantly improves your system.

Cheers

[MarkTaylor]

Originally Posted by Alan Mac

“Sitting down and having a good listen on good kit” in an endeavour to establish if cables make a difference to the “sound” is a pointless exercise.

I will just repeat the same advice I have posted here before.

When spending your own money then what you decide you can or cannot see/hear is the best guide to the value you obtain as it relates sdirectly to your own enjoyemtn of your investment.

In the world of digital cables such as HDMI then there is little is any scope to claim image/sound improvements but with analogue cables this is less true. Ultimately telling people what they can or cannot hear is as fruitless as telling them what they should see or hear.

Perception is reality within your own head, just make sure you are forming your own opinions when you listend/view and not being told what to see/hear then decide for yoursefl if the value is there for the money you spend.

[Alan Mac]

Originally Posted by MarkTaylor

In the world of digital cables such as HDMI then there is little is any scope to claim image/sound improvements but with analogue cables this is less true.

But some people (including some magazine reviewers!) DO claim image/sound improvements with some HDMI cables. Now logically we know that it cannot be the HDMI cable that is making the difference.

Much the same reasoning applies to analogue cables. The fact that in the case of analogue cables there is a very small measurable difference does not alter the general principle that (in the case of both analogue and digital cables) it is not the cable that is making the difference.


To quote Vipers”
“At first I wasn't sure what I preffered”......“I think I just needed to get used to the different sound that I'd become accustomed to”

This is in effect an admission that the “measuring instrument” employed (Vipers’ hearing) changed substantially with time. If an electrical or acoustical measuring instrument were to change its readings like that it would be deemed useless and sent back for repair or scrapped!

So human hearing is seriously imprecise as a measuring instrument. It is important to understand this and be aware that, in the case of cables, it is just not possible to “decide for yourself” by listening.



Alan

[Mark Grant]

Originally Posted by scorpion88

Decent cables costing £10 - £15.00 are just as good and it is the placebo effect you are experiencing IMHO.

I have tried the the freebie red and white cables and not noticed much noticeable difference.

Just my opionion but all the best if it significantly improves your system.

Cheers

Hello Scorpion88,

A question about this, are you sure you are talking about the same cable?

Vipers is talking about this cable:
Mark Grant G1000HD Precision audio cable - Stereo Pair [Mark Grant G1000HD Stereo Pair] - £65.00 : AV Cables and Interconnects, UK Cables Shop

I cant find any record of you ever buying any, so when you say:

''Decent cables costing £10 - £15.00 are just as good''

''I have tried the the freebie red and white cables and not noticed much noticeable difference.''

I dont understand how you can compare to a cable that you dont appear to have ?

Not trying to cause an argument, just trying to find out what is going on as everyone that has bought the cable likes it, none have been returned and I cant find any record of you buying it and it is unusual to post negative comments about a product that I dont think you have tried.

Thanks,

Mark.

[mrbenn]

Mark are the G100HD cables really that much better than your standard phono's ?

have to say i'm with scorpion88 on this - perhaps with a top end system, but for most consumers?

[philmate]

Hi,
Is there an optimum length for cables so they give their best, be it an analogue stereo pair or say a power cable or cable between processor and power amp. Gonna give Mark Grant cables a go as he has a return policy I believe, will check first though.
For those who laugh at such things take a good look at yourself and your choices of perceiving things be it cables, amps, speakers, cars, motorbikes, golf clubs, fishing rods, wine, restaurants etc, the list is endless and there is a lot of wasted money spent by all of us including you, on what you think is worth it, perceived or not..Just take a look at our women whom spend loads on cosmetics etc and still look like a bag of ****, don't stop em buying it though.

Kind regards

Phil.

[scorpion88]

Originally Posted by Mark Grant

Hello Scorpion88,

A question about this, are you sure you are talking about the same cable?

Vipers is talking about this cable:
Mark Grant G1000HD Precision audio cable - Stereo Pair [Mark Grant G1000HD Stereo Pair] - £65.00 : AV Cables and Interconnects, UK Cables Shop

I cant find any record of you ever buying any, so when you say:

''Decent cables costing £10 - £15.00 are just as good''

''I have tried the the freebie red and white cables and not noticed much noticeable difference.''

I dont understand how you can compare to a cable that you dont appear to have ?

Not trying to cause an argument, just trying to find out what is going on as everyone that has bought the cable likes it, none have been returned and I cant find any record of you buying it and it is unusual to post negative comments about a product that I dont think you have tried.

Thanks,

Mark.

Hi Mark,

I note your comments. You are correct I have not bought your cables and at £65.00 do not intend to however good the testimonials from those who have seem to be.

I am not critising your cables and I am sure they are excellent. However, I have heard in my friends set up a Russ Andrews cable costing circa £60 and compared it to my Profigold costing £13 and could not detect any difference whatsoever. I notice that Russ also sells cables costing £150 about the same price as my Oppo DVD/CD Player. I think that puts things into perspective.

I took a conscience decision given that as I needed 4-5 analogue interconnects and didn't like the freebies I would set a budget of £15 per cable.

I also took the decision to try different cables in this or about this price range mainly for comparison purposes.

The cables included, Profigold, Banbridge, Cambridge Audio, a freebie for the ancient VCR and A.N. Other.

I tried all permutations when connecting my 2 systems (see sig) and could again not notice one iota of difference.

Over the years I have seen all sorts of outrageous (IMO) claims about these 'exotic' cables and just do not believe the alleged benefits and hype.

It is the same with RA's power cable costing circa £300 which cost the same as my amplifiers and as far as I am concerned it is fools gold.

Another example is the benefits What Hi Fi claim for £1000 Hi-Fi racks with significant tangible benefits to Bass and Treble, more dynamics and top end refinement with out any scientific justification. In fact it looks like a flatpack alternative available from B&Q.

Again for speaker cable I use 2.5mm oxygen free copper at about £3.00 per metre and find it excellent.

Finally, no offence intended and I am sure you make well made and constructed cable with gold plated connecters. You never know I may actually buy one when I upgrade my set up.

However, I do hope you can understand my general point.

Kind Regards

Scorpion

[scrufftyguy]

But you do notice the difference between a £15 cable and an "out of the box" freebie cable?

[Mark Grant]

Originally Posted by scorpion88

Hi Mark,

You are correct I have not bought your cables

Hello Scorpion88, that clears it up then, I read your post as though you had done a comparison. Did not want anyone getting the wrong impression as everyone so far that tries them likes them.

However, I do hope you can understand my general point.

Kind Regards

Scorpion

Absolutely, fully understand

Mark.

[scorpion88]

Originally Posted by scrufftyguy

But you do notice the difference between a £15 cable and an "out of the box" freebie cable?

Is that all you have to say:

"I have not noticed much noticeable difference"

No you misinterpret scrufftyguy. My comment is self-explanatory.

Clearly a £15 cable is better constructed with more shielding and gold connectors and looks more robust in your system which to a great extent involves the placebo effect.

However an out of the box freebie will still do the job and yes I did not "notice much noticeable difference" in the audio performance if any between the freebie and £15 cable although I prefer the look and have more confidence about the £15 cable's longevity and longer term performance.

Hope that assists your understanding.

BTW do you have any views about power cables, speaker cable and Hi-Fi racks

Cheers

Scorpion

[scrufftyguy]

Thanks for clarifying, I couldn't understand why you'd pay £15 for a cable, if you didn't notice any difference.

Like you I generally go for a "well-made" looking, well shielded anologue/digital interconnect, same with speaker cable, and I also don't like to spend too much, if money was no option I'd probably pay more. Can't comment on mains cable, though have been tempted to try a cheap one out, just to hear if there's any difference for myself (and at least it would make it easier to identify which mains lead belongs to which device if nothing else). To be honest, when I bought my rack I did think it made a slight difference to the sound, but could have just imagined it but I didn't buy the rack for any sound improvements I just bought it as I was running out of space to keep everything!

[scorpion88]

Hi, thanks for that. I think the point I was generally trying to make is that a lot of these perceived improvements in sound are very subjective and I would never critisice anyone for paying whatever is considered best for their system.

However, for example, I personally would not pay £300 for what is essentially a glorified kettle cable. But hey, it may be worth it to some people and that is their choice and money.

Just my opinion,

Cheers

Scorpion

[pwood]

OP thanks for your post. Nice to read someones thoughts on a product with a decent comparison.

[milesr3]

I recently bought two pairs of G1000HD interconnects to connect my Linn MajikDS to pre and power amp. I was using the Linn Black interconnects that came in the box to the pre-amp and some Canare LV61S (also from Mark Grant) from pre-amp to power amp. Neither are poor quality by any means.

The sound from the G1000HD is clearer with less bloom, particularly in the bass and there are more subtle details now being revealed throughout. At first I though that all the bass had dissappeared, but it's still there - just better defined. I have a 40Hz room node that my sub is EQ'd for, but not my fronts which can still be a little boomy here when listening to music in stereo without the sub. It's definately taken the edge off this.

I have a couple of familiar tracks that I use to test my system and there is one bit where it is now clear that one sound is actually two separate sounds with a clearly defined overlap. This wasn't audible before, where you could just hear the composite of the two. The sound is somehow 'faster' and more punchy and dynamic, like it isn't being stored and discharged by the cable. The imaging now has real depth to it as well, and more precise focus and clearer separation of individual instruments, presumably due to less phase distortion.

By all means say I'm imaging it - I haven't done an blind test or anything, but then I don't feel I need to. The difference is very obvious and like when I fitted a Dynamik PSU to my MajikDS, or changed to Cara firmware, or bi-amped my fronts I didn't feel the need to go back and listen to it again with the old configuration just to confirm the difference was for real.

[Alan Mac]

Originally Posted by milesr3

By all means say I'm imaging it - I haven't done an blind test or anything, but then I don't feel I need to.

OK, then I will. You’re imagining it!

And no of course you don’t feel that your senses are misleading you - that’s what being misled entails!

I don’t understand why the concept of being misled by our hearing sense is so difficult to accept when nearly everyone recognises the existence of optical illusions.


Alan

[milesr3]

Originally Posted by Alan Mac

OK, then I will. You’re imagining it!Alan

Quite happy to accept that I'm imagining the difference as I know how much of an effect expectation bias can have when the testing method doesn't isolate it. Don't think I am though...

[scorpion88]

Originally Posted by milesr3

Quite happy to accept that I'm imagining the difference as I know how much of an effect expectation bias can have when the testing method doesn't isolate it. Don't think I am though...

I guess a hearing aid could isolate/improve the sound effect although not suggesting you possess such an implement. However I am biased as a non-believer as per my previous posts.

I also believe the placebo effect applies to many things particularly if more expensive.

[milesr3]

I was a firm non-believer too and didn't expect there to be a difference.

FWIW the G1000HD interconnects are cheaper than Linn blacks

[philmate]

Hi,
I am going to order these cables for my processor to power amp and do not care what anyone thinks.....
I have wasted more money drinking beer etc.
Mark has spent many years of his life dedicated in this area and is of an obvious believer that cables do make a difference to a system ,why would he continue.... and if he did not believe....contemplate or think that it was not a worthwhile venture, do you think he would continue, his life and family life could end up in the gutter. It is for our benefit and his family that he believes in his passion to ensure here and many other forums that his/HIS cables could improve in our enjoyment of the films and music we enjoy from our equipment. Try them or get your money back. Is your Denon better than my Yamaha, Sony, HK, Nad or Pioneer etc at the same price point, sooo better than the opposition, they all want our money so why make an inferior product in that price range, makes no sense to me, or would his cables make the difference, it is up to you to believe or perceive.....

Regards

Phil.

[marscay]

Originally Posted by milesr3

I was a firm non-believer too and didn't expect there to be a difference.

FWIW the G1000HD interconnects are cheaper than Linn blacks

Don't worry about the nay sayers, anyone with good gear knows the difference interconnects can make especially between the pre-amp/power stage.

The difference between the G1000HD range and his Canare cables are quite noticable for me and the Canares are as good as anything upto £100/m from chord/qed etc.

Originally Posted by scorpion88

I guess a hearing aid could isolate/improve the sound effect although not suggesting you possess such an implement. However I am biased as a non-believer as per my previous posts.

I also believe the placebo effect applies to many things particularly if more expensive.

Why would anyone be under pressure to hear anything from Marks cables?

He offers a money back guarantee if you aren't satisfied.

[Vipers @ Zinc-HT]

Just a quick re-cap really, I've had my system up and running for a couple of months now using Marks G1000HD interconnects through my whole system and I have to say its sounding better than ever now

As I had a major upgrade with every component it has taken time for everything to run in and settle down and it just sounds superb now with Marks cable being a big part of the system.

I know alot of people here don't believe interconnects can make much difference but I really feel you can fine tune your system to give you the overall tone you are after. Once you have chosen the major parts of your system trying different cables can make quite a big differnce to the overall sound you are trying to achieve.

I've just been doing similar tests with power cables as I did when testing Marks G1000HD and I'll stand up and be counted as a believer that power cables make a difference, so by chosing carefully interconnects and power cables I feel you can lean your system towards a more detailed but slightly brighter sound or a more weighty, musical sound which is what I aimed for and feel I've achieved.

OK guys, tear me down

[pwood]

Originally Posted by vipers

Just a quick re-cap really, I've had my system up and running for a couple of months now using Marks G1000HD interconnects through my whole system and I have to say its sounding better than ever now

As I had a major upgrade with every component it has taken time for everything to run in and settle down and it just sounds superb now with Marks cable being a big part of the system.

I know alot of people here don't believe interconnects can make much difference but I really feel you can fine tune your system to give you the overall tone you are after. Once you have chosen the major parts of your system trying different cables can make quite a big differnce to the overall sound you are trying to achieve.

I've just been doing similar tests with power cables as I did when testing Marks G1000HD and I'll stand up and be counted as a believer that power cables make a difference, so by chosing carefully interconnects and power cables I feel you can lean your system towards a more detailed but slightly brighter sound or a more weighty, musical sound which is what I aimed for and feel I've achieved.

OK guys, tear me down

Its time those that have sensitive hearing stood up and be counted the unbelievers are getting the upper hand In the Analogue domain anyway.

What Hifi's review this month was surprising. I'd try myself but I'm happy my Kimber cables bought many moons ago. Is any other mag got them for review MARK?

[Alan Mac]

Originally Posted by pwood

... In the Analogue domain anyway.

Why only in the analogue domain?

Surely you can hear or see differences due to HDMI cables and S/PDIF cables, or if not why not?


Alan