[marscay]

Originally Posted by pwood

Its time those that have sensitive hearing stood up and be counted the unbelievers are getting the upper hand In the Analogue domain anyway.

What Hifi's review this month was surprising. I'd try myself but I'm happy my Kimber cables bought many moons ago. Is any other mag got them for review MARK?

The day i base any decision on what WHF says is the day i give up, i honestly give them absolutely no credibility whatsoever. No pay no play, sounds cynical but in this world it is just realism.

Sensitive ears? if you have good gear and cannot hear anything between a range of interconnects (price irrelevant in my experience, higher price does not automatically = better) you have poor hearing or possibly not as good gear as you thought

Part of the problem is peoples expectations imho, they assume cables will make as big a difference as new speakers or amps because user A on forum B said cable C is amazing .....which is foolish at best.

[pwood]

Originally Posted by marscay

The day i base any decision on what WHF says is the day i give up, i honestly give them absolutely no credibility whatsoever. No pay no play, sounds cynical but in this world it is just realism.

Sensitive ears? if you have good gear and cannot hear anything between a range of interconnects (price irrelevant in my experience, higher price does not automatically = better) you have poor hearing or possibly not as good gear as you thought

Part of the problem is peoples expectations imho, they assume cables will make as big a difference as new speakers or amps because user A on forum B said cable C is amazing .....which is foolish at best.

Just to confirm I was agreeing with you. Your post above makes me wonder if you took my post a tad wrong

Regards the What Hifi review its a shame that the vast majority believe what they say and in doing so might harm Mark Grant Cables as a whole

[pwood]

Originally Posted by Alan Mac

Why only in the analogue domain?

Surely you can hear or see differences due to HDMI cables and S/PDIF cables, or if not why not?


Alan

Demoed plenty and cant hear or see a difference.

[Alan Mac]

Originally Posted by pwood

Demoed plenty and cant hear or see a difference.

Neither can I.

But we now have a problem.

“What Hi-Fi” reviewers (and others) claim vehemently that they CAN see and hear a difference in picture and sound quality between different HDMI cables and differences in sound quality between S/PDIF cables.

How can you possibly know if they are mistaken if your decision is based on casual subjective “testing”? (“believing what your ears tell you”). Essentially it’s just your word against theirs.

I can’t hear a difference when I change interconnects or speaker cables but I would not dream of claiming that “just because I can’t hear a difference therefore there is no difference”.

My reasons for claiming there is no difference are that instrumentation measurements do not reveal significant differences and scientific subjective testing fails to reveal evidence of subjective differences. These claims are verifiable by anyone with the appropriate test equipment and knowledge.


Alan

[Vipers @ Zinc-HT]

Originally Posted by marscay

Part of the problem is peoples expectations imho, they assume cables will make as big a difference as new speakers or amps because user A on forum B said cable C is amazing .....which is foolish at best.

Exactly, the best interconnect in the world will never make a bad system sound good but experimenting with different cables can help maximise your system and tailor it your overall preference.

As for WHF, the less said the better, money talks

[milesr3]

Originally Posted by pwood

What Hifi's review this month was surprising.

What did it say?

[rockngrohl]

Just got myself a pair of these cables to run between my DAC & amp after reading Vipers' initial thoughts & subsequent postings.

Fantastic service from Mark Grant, e-mail updates confirming every step of the order & very rapid delivery as well. Would certainly purchase from him again.

[JohnWH]

Those who disagree with Alan Mac should watch the first 5-10minutes of the video pointed to in this thread,

Audio Myths Workshop Video

John.

[jon1]

Well just ordered a pair will let you know how they perform ..strait out of the box as the saying goes



jon

[ben.bayliss]

Originally Posted by Alan Mac

My reasons for claiming there is no difference are that instrumentation measurements do not reveal significant differences and scientific subjective testing fails to reveal evidence of subjective differences. These claims are verifiable by anyone with the appropriate test equipment and knowledge.


Alan

Ahhhh Alan. Every so often someone comes along and starts posting such common sense on such a regular occurrence that I just have to give them a virtual hug.

You can be my friend

B

[MI55ION]

Mark Grant,

Can I take you up on that offer of try before buy?

The problem is for stereo duties alone I would need 3 pairs. 1 pair from DAC to Pre. 2 pairs for daisy chaining a bi-amp config. So thats:

2 x 1m pairs.
1 x 0.5m pair.

Thanks

[jon1]

Originally Posted by MI55ION

Mark Grant,

Can I take you up on that offer of try before buy?

The problem is for stereo duties alone I would need 3 pairs. 1 pair from DAC to Pre. 2 pairs for daisy chaining a bi-amp config. So thats:

2 x 1m pairs.
1 x 0.5m pair.

Thanks

MI55ION mate...... pm mark




jon

[jon1]

Well alpha10...got my 2 lots of 6 way multi channel G1000HD today..they are shockingly...good...So.open the imaging is excellent...It hard to put in to words what a difference they make..no colouration in the sound very transparent...very neutral...what your setup puts out is what you get...with these interconnects.....just had armin van buuren dvd on for a hour only..It has being worth the wait for these interconnects...the cables are on the 5.1 analogues on the oppo 83 to the preamp to the amp i have no sound processor..that is done by the oppo 83..mark grant has done one hell of a job on these G1000HD..try the dac tomorrow


jon

[alpha10]

Originally Posted by jon1

Well alpha10...got my 2 lots of 6 way multi channel G1000HD today..they are shockingly...goodSoooo.. open the imaging is excellent...It hard to put in to words what a difference they make..no colouration in the sound very transparent...very neutral...what your setup puts out is what you get...with these interconnects.....just had armin van buuren dvd on for a hour only..It has being worth the wait for these interconnects...the cables are on the 5.1 analogues on the oppo 83 to the preamp to the amp i have no sound processor..that is done by the oppo 83..mark grant has done one hell of a job on these G1000HD..try the dac tomorrow


jon

Brilliant, sounds like Mark has done a top job on these, let us know how you get on with the DAC tests as well

[jon1]

Originally Posted by alpha10

Brilliant, sounds like Mark has done a top job on these, let us know how you get on with the DAC tests as well

One cable shortgot one coming next week




jon

[alpha10]

Originally Posted by jon1

One cable shortgot one coming next week




jon

Nightmare, I thought that sort of thing only happened to me....

Once I make my mind up what I am doing, either and/or new amplifiers, speakers, 2CH/AV only etc I will be straight on to Mark for some of these

[jon1]

Originally Posted by alpha10

Nightmare, I thought that sort of thing only happened to me....

Once I make my mind up what I am doing, either and/or new amplifiers, speakers, 2CH/AV only etc I will be straight on to Mark for some of these

Well their you go..I need that one interconnect for the dac..that is 15 interconnectsBTW what make do you have in mind for the amplifiers


jon

[starfi3ld]

This would be my first proper post here. Firstly, I would like to mention for those non-believers. Cables do make a difference.!

I wouldnt say that it will turn your system in to a whole new systems with new characteristics etc. It will improve the sound in certain areas depending on the characteristics(Do some research on different materials, silver gold etc) or in some cases it will not. When listening to cables, you should listen over an extended period of time not A/B comparison over 5 seconds.

For example on a forward sounding system like naim, Laid back cables like those from Purist audio will sound wrong and unappealing. However something punchy and lively like those from JPS Labs might suit it better. These are from my experiences not any manufacturer claims and there are other manufacturers that also suits Naim not only JPS Labs.

These experiences got me started on cables and HIFI. I'm 20 now(Don't give me the you're young and inexperienced crap) and I have unconsciously been an audiophile seeking the best sound since I was 16. I got my first audiophile(Ultimate ears Super.fi 3) IEMS(In-ear Monitors) after months of savings when i was 17 and yes it was amazing(at that time). Skipping my other headphones and gadgets in between, I upgraded to the Triple fi 10s which have 3X the amount of drivers and about 3X the price. The new IEMS were a whole new world and made me regret jumping the gun on the triple.fis too early.

Not too long after that, my neighbour exposed me to his £40k Audio Research + Sonus faber. Phew?! Best Experience I have had in my life so far. Synergy was right, Clarity was right, hell, everything was right. He mentioned that he had spent over £4k on cables. At that time i thought of it as a plain stupidity but I still tried after market cables for my IEMs and yes it did improve the sound so much that I wouldn't even consider the old cables anymore. From that experience I felt increased soundstage, separation and clarity but most importantly its synergy.

So how can you tell that you're listening to good cables? Use extended listening. Leave in on for a few days then compare, use your memory and feeling and remember the locations of your volume knob. We tend to listen to music louder to compromise the lack of everything between cables. I can write much much longer but I think I will stop for now.

I have not tried Mark Grant cables before but have bought his power cables, though I'm not his biggest fan I'm impressed with the quality of his products. I wrote this post because of the injustice I feel reading the 2 pages.

[ben.bayliss]

Once upon a time I would have spent hours endlessly trying to persuade the believers to change their mind. Now I know that'll never happen, but hopefully those reading with an open mind yet to make their minds up will read these posts and see hard evidence on one side and anecdotes on the other.

Improving your system can be a very enjoyable hobby, and if you enjoy spending money on pretty things to make your hifi LOOK nice and expensive then fair enough; but you really are deluding yourselves and fighting against a whole raft of serious, credible evidence and scientific theory if you believe some of the nonsense peddled by cable and accessory manufacturers, and what makes it worse is when this stuff is repeated as if fact to others.

The human ears and brain are very poor at determining what sound waves are really doing. Incredibly poor. Electronic and acoustic measuring instruments are far far more accurate, and can show over and over and over again that cables in particular make not only little, but NO measurable difference at all to what leaves the speakers.

What you hear is 95% down to the speakers, their placement and the room acoustics. Even if that last 5% were significantly audible, it would be down to any DSP in line, the amp, and maybe the transport mechanism, but not the cables in between doing a very simple electronic job indeed.

Like I said, if you enjoy 'improving' your system with esoteric bits and bobs then fine, it's your money and you can do whatever you like with it, but please don't fool yourself, and worse, make others fall into the same trap with misinformation and unsupportable views.

[philmate]

Hi,

Ben, for you and the others... I know there are thousands of you,I can see/hear why, but I will welcome anyone into my listening room to listen to Mark's G1000 interconnects and a fanatastic amp, the Bantam Audiophile Class T... I have not heard anything remotely like it.
If you or anyone else whom may reply, though I doubt it, (you only seem to listen to yourselves anyway), that someone will come here to my home and listening room, will listen and maybe, if you can, hear a benefit from using Mark's G1000 interconnects, they did to me, make a beneficial sonic difference and will definately stay connected, but the amp is the star here.

Kind regards

Phil.

[alpha10]

Originally Posted by jon1

Well their you go..I need that one interconnect for the dac..that is 15 interconnectsBTW what make do you have in mind for the amplifiers


jon

Hi Jon, I hope you got your errant cable and that your testing is going well?

Amps wise I am getting myself in a pickle, I started out by just wanting to replace my old but still very good Mission 75 series speakers, however when going to various shops and listening I have become very aware that actually I may want to change the amp either at the same time, before or something else. The real kicker for me was the PMC FB1i speakers being powered by Brystan amps. But I was also impressed with the Arcam 777/888 combo and have been a long term Arcam fan, but have concerns over the pops clicks and bangs.....really confused right now

On topic, once I have decided what I am doing, I'll be going to Mark for all my cable needs

[jon1]

Originally Posted by alpha10

Hi Jon, I hope you got your errant cable and that your testing is going well?

Amps wise I am getting myself in a pickle, I started out by just wanting to replace my old but still very good Mission 75 series speakers, however when going to various shops and listening I have become very aware that actually I may want to change the amp either at the same time, before or something else. The real kicker for me was the PMC FB1i speakers being powered by Brystan amps. But I was also impressed with the Arcam 777/888 combo and have been a long term Arcam fan, but have concerns over the pops clicks and bangs.....really confused right now

On topic, once I have decided what I am doing, I'll be going to Mark for all my cable needs

A bit of topic ..Hi mate look up gain card amp..I have a 6 channel gain card had is built for me ...Highly recommended ..and yes i am giving the dac some stick



jon

[alpha10]

Originally Posted by jon1

A bit of topic ..Hi mate look up gain card amp..I have a 6 channel gain card had is built for me ...Highly recommended ..and yes i am giving the dac some stick



jon

Is that the '47 labs' kit, if so, really nice I bet your set-up is sounding sweet?

[jon1]

Originally Posted by alpha10

Is that the '47 labs' kit, if so, really nice I bet your set-up is sounding sweet?

That is the one..But 60 watts 6 channel..Yes the setup is sounding sweet very sweet..If you look at my album you will see it in their..click on the avatarThe full av setup goes through it



jon

[jon1]

Originally Posted by philmate

Hi,

Ben, for you and the others... I know there are thousands of you,I can see/hear why, but I will welcome anyone into my listening room to listen to Mark's G1000 interconnects and a fantastic amp, the Bantam Audiophile Class T... I have not heard anything remotely like it.
If you or anyone else whom may reply, though I doubt it, (you only seem to listen to yourselves anyway), that someone will come here to my home and listening room, will listen and maybe, if you can, hear a benefit from using Mark's G1000 interconnects, they did to me, make a beneficial sonic difference and will definitely stay connected, but the amp is the star here.

Kind regards

Phil.

Phil... what counts is you enjoying your setupYes you are right about the interconnects



jon

[Vipers @ Zinc-HT]

Originally Posted by alpha10

Amps wise I am getting myself in a pickle, I started out by just wanting to replace my old but still very good Mission 75 series speakers, however when going to various shops and listening I have become very aware that actually I may want to change the amp either at the same time, before or something else. The real kicker for me was the PMC FB1i speakers being powered by Brystan amps. But I was also impressed with the Arcam 777/888 combo and have been a long term Arcam fan, but have concerns over the pops clicks and bangs.....really confused right now

I totally understand your dilema as a P777/AV888 owner now going down a seperate 2ch route with a full Bryston setup.

I bought the P777/AV888 hoping it would be the perfect compromise for films amd music and to a degree it is, and it definatley helped rediscover my love for music, but after some more demo's with Brystom amps and stereo processors I quickly discovered that my PMC EB1i's were capable of so much more, hence the move over to a Bryston amp, cd player and processor for music, I've quickly learned that to get the most from a 2ch setup a HD processor isn't the answer.

But I still think for the money the Arcam setup is still the best compromise for films and music, for films it produces and nice weighty sound with plenty of impact, although not the most dynamic, and for music it is very well balanced and very musical, I guess you have to decide what is more important, films or music and decide accordingly.

If you do decide to go with the PMC FB1i's, excellent speaker btw, then I feel the P777/AV888 will be more than upto the job, for me I just found that the EB's responded better with more power.

Again, as with my setup so far, my 2ch setup will be using Marks G1000HD, as I've mentioned before I've got nothing to say other than positives about these cables, they definatley perform excellently in my system

[indus]

Originally Posted by starfi3ld

This would be my first proper post here. Firstly, I would like to mention for those non-believers. Cables do make a difference.!

I wouldnt say that it will turn your system in to a whole new systems with new characteristics etc. It will improve the sound in certain areas depending on the characteristics(Do some research on different materials, silver gold etc) or in some cases it will not. When listening to cables, you should listen over an extended period of time not A/B comparison over 5 seconds.

For example on a forward sounding system like naim, Laid back cables like those from Purist audio will sound wrong and unappealing. However something punchy and lively like those from JPS Labs might suit it better. These are from my experiences not any manufacturer claims and there are other manufacturers that also suits Naim not only JPS Labs.

These experiences got me started on cables and HIFI. I'm 20 now(Don't give me the you're young and inexperienced crap) and I have unconsciously been an audiophile seeking the best sound since I was 16. I got my first audiophile(Ultimate ears Super.fi 3) IEMS(In-ear Monitors) after months of savings when i was 17 and yes it was amazing(at that time). Skipping my other headphones and gadgets in between, I upgraded to the Triple fi 10s which have 3X the amount of drivers and about 3X the price. The new IEMS were a whole new world and made me regret jumping the gun on the triple.fis too early.

Not too long after that, my neighbour exposed me to his £40k Audio Research + Sonus faber. Phew?! Best Experience I have had in my life so far. Synergy was right, Clarity was right, hell, everything was right. He mentioned that he had spent over £4k on cables. At that time i thought of it as a plain stupidity but I still tried after market cables for my IEMs and yes it did improve the sound so much that I wouldn't even consider the old cables anymore. From that experience I felt increased soundstage, separation and clarity but most importantly its synergy.

So how can you tell that you're listening to good cables? Use extended listening. Leave in on for a few days then compare, use your memory and feeling and remember the locations of your volume knob. We tend to listen to music louder to compromise the lack of everything between cables. I can write much much longer but I think I will stop for now.

I have not tried Mark Grant cables before but have bought his power cables, though I'm not his biggest fan I'm impressed with the quality of his products. I wrote this post because of the injustice I feel reading the 2 pages.

[marscay]

Originally Posted by vipers

I bought the P777/AV888 hoping it would be the perfect compromise for films amd music and to a degree it is, and it definatley helped rediscover my love for music, but after some more demo's with Brystom amps and stereo processors I quickly discovered that my PMC EB1i's were capable of so much more, hence the move over to a Bryston amp, cd player and processor for music, I've quickly learned that to get the most from a 2ch setup a HD processor isn't the answer.

But I still think for the money the Arcam setup is still the best compromise for films and music, for films it produces and nice weighty sound with plenty of impact, although not the most dynamic, and for music it is very well balanced and very musical, I guess you have to decide what is more important, films or music and decide accordingly.

Meridian kit has it all over the Arcam gear for 2 channel imho, you really do get the best of both worlds ......film + music.

Agree about MG's cables though the HD range are stunning for the money.