Desire and Orange, the facts on forced apps.

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The Desire on Orange, the facts on forced apps.

Those of us lucky to have received a Desire from Orange directly, or through one of their many retail outlets have discovered two things;

1. The phone is a sexy piece of awesome.
2. Orange have seen fit to install their own version of Sense UI, including many of their own applications.

These things have the following issues:

1. The phone is a sexy piece of awesome.
-Loss of friends through insistance on showing them your new phone every 30 seconds, all day, every day.

2. Orange have seen fit to install their own version of Sense UI, including many of their own applications.

This needs be broken down into two seperate sets of problems.

2a. Updates to Android will always come to stock Android phones first (Nexus One) and the rest much later. Since Orange themselves have a different software version to the unbranded versions, you are at the mercy of Orange as far as updates go. So, you could be waiting for a long time.

2b. (or the really long point)
The HTC Desire comes with 512MB of internal memory. Which, compaired with some phones, isn't all that much. Thankfully, most apps in the Market are quite small.

However, not all of the 512MB is available to you. The vast majority of that memory is taken up with the Operating System, various stock apps and the Sense UI, leaving you with around 140MB of space for you to install whatever you please on it.

From what i'm able to gather, the forced Orange apps and guff remove an additional 54MB from the 140MB originally available space (and that isn't including GTalk, but more on that later), giving you, the loving and loyal Orange Desire owner (drumroll please) 86MB free.

Of course, this isn't a problem. You can just pop into 'Settings', click on 'Applications', then 'Manage Applications' find the installed Orange apps and delete them...

...no, wait. You CAN'T DELETE THEM?!

Yep. The horrible realisation that over a third of the available memory has been taken hostage by your network has no doubt hit you by now. So you're left staring at these marvels of modern mobile programming:

*Orange Messenger, a rather rubbish MSN style chat client. This cannot be deleted.
*Uno game demo. This cannot be deleted.
*Monopoly game demo. This cannot be deleted.
*Midnight Bowling game demo. This cannot be deleted.
*Orange Maps, a rather rubbish Google maps style app. This cannot be deleted.
*App Shop, a very rubbish Orange Marketplace style app. This cannot be deleted.
*an icon for a Game Store, that links you to the same rubbish Orange Marketplace style app. This cannot be deleted.
*an icon for a Ringtone Store, that links you to the same rubbish Orange Marketplace style app. This, *shock horror*, cannot be deleted.

Because Orange are pushing their own Messenger application, they've taken away GTalk. Okay, i'm moderatley annoyed that I can't get rid of the Orange one, i'll just hop on the Market and download GTalk.

...no, wait. I CAN'T.

That's right, GTalk is nowhere to be found on the Android Market. Wonderful. Not only this, but it turns out they haven't removed it at all. In fact, they've just hidden it. And while it stays in the background hidden, it's files and storage are eating up memory. So while it's running in the background, it's using up system resources and there is nothing you can do about it (even using an appkiller doesn't work, it finds a way to restart itself).

Of course, you don't have to be at the mercy of Orange. You can flash a generic version of Sense UI onto the phone, ridding you of this nework torture. Of course, this comes with it's own hefty price tag. It voids your warranty and since the process is quite complex for most, you do run a small risk of bricking your Desire.

But the question is, why should you have to? Would Orange think about commiting this sin to an iPhone? Would they risk ******* off the mighty Apple? No, of course they wouldn't. So, I decided to contact everyone involved to see what they had to say about it.

1. Phonecall to Orange: Didn't care. Suggested I return the phone within my seven days if I wasn't happy. This isn't really an option, I got offered a contract to die for.
2. Email to Google: Haven't responded. I wanted to alert them to Orange denying users access to basic Android applications, since I believe the removal of choice goes against the basic principles of their OS in the first place.
3. Email to HTC. An answer, but hardly the one I was wanting. I wanted to let them know that people would be (and wrongly) angry with them, as it would potentially paint HTC in a negative light and maybe even disuade some from ever buying one of their phones again (well, it might, some people enjoy being angry). I wanted them to stand up for themselves and not allow network to butcher their products as they see fit. What I got in reply was this:

Dear David Gravypockets*,

Thank you for contacting us.

In regards to desire I can help you with that. I am happy to hear that you are pleased with the phone, however with the orange applications on the phone there is nothing we can really do but to say to email this email to orange to see if they can offer you any other alternatives other than the ones they already have. I trust that this resolves your query, please do not hesitate to contact us again if required.

Thank you for contacting HTC.
Best regards, Alison Ghost-Crabstick* HTC
(*the names have been changed to protect the innocent)

I'm suggesting anyone and everyone unhappy to do the same. Let everyone know that we don't enjoy the removal of the freedom of choice, for our phones to be butchered, capacity kidnapped and for us all to have to think twice about if we have the space to store apps.

Who knows, if enough people complain, maybe Orange will release a firmware that allows the removal of these horrid things (we can dream, right?).
 
I'm so glad I sent the Orange one back and coughed up for an unlocked simfree model. All this would have driven me insane with frustration. I've reflashed Sonys and iPhones (well, pwned them anyway) and reflashing the Desire looks well scary, IMHO.
 
Thanks for this. Looking to get a Desire myself and Orange had offered me a good upgrade deal but think i'll tell them to whistle and go SIM free instead.
 
Well I`m glad you guys have highlighted this as it means when i`m finally able to upgrade or move to a different mobile phone provider I can steer WELL clear of Orange! Are you listening Orange???? :facepalm:
 
Superb thread :clap:

I have also sent emails to the relevant parties, not had any reply as yet. I can sort or understand Orange wanting to put their messenger, maps, photo's, ringtones and several demo games on the phone however like i highlighted in my email we should have the option to remove these!

I think this will be my last contract with Orange if they continue to mess phones up in this way.

I can live with all their junk on the phone (if i have to), but i'm more annoyed about the space taken up internally.
 
Well its no suprise i haven't heard anything back from Orange about this, thats 2 phone calls and 2 emails. :mad:
 
great post!! thanks for posting.
Can't u delete the apps by browsing through the phone memory using an app like "Andexplorer"? The apps are present in the folder /system/app as .apk files. Will it cause any problems if we just delete the unwanted apps?

Also, the max size of my apps in around 3MB and most of them are under 1MB. How come just a few orange apps will occupy 54MB of space?

I found a link to install GTalk in Orange branded Desire phones - http://nimbu.amorvi.com/2010/04/add-google-talk-to-orange-htc-desire/
 
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Never fear Rootings here :)

Apparently Paul from MoDaCo has figured out rooting on the Desire & something will be released in the next day or so, I'll probably hold out for a week or so to make sure it's all good & then it will be bye bye to the Orange junk.

Most of there stuff isn't an issue as I just ignore it but what really has would me up (I'm sure others will find this trivial) is that I can't delete all the stupid game demos.

Thanks to Balusri for the Gtalk link, I'll probably never use it but on principal its now installed :smashin:
 
Never fear Rootings here :)

Apparently Paul from MoDaCo has figured out rooting on the Desire & something will be released in the next day or so, I'll probably hold out for a week or so to make sure it's all good & then it will be bye bye to the Orange junk.

Most of there stuff isn't an issue as I just ignore it but what really has would me up (I'm sure others will find this trivial) is that I can't delete all the stupid game demos.

Thanks to Balusri for the Gtalk link, I'll probably never use it but on principal its now installed :smashin:


Well im not the most techinally minded of people but will take a look at the rooting process, i just hope its easy to do lol
 
Rooting the Desire still seems a little too bleeding edge for me play about with that but I flashed my Orange Desire last night / this morning with no issues and no need for rooting.

Had to unlock it first (thank you HTCCode.com) which cost 25 Euros but now I have a standard HTC ROM on there and the only trace it is an Orange phone is the logo on the back of the case.

Rather than re-inventing the wheel....
http://android.modaco.com/content/h...o-1-15-405-4-genericifying-your-t-mo-handset/
 
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Rooting the Desire still seems a little too bleeding edge for me play about with that but I flashed my Orange Desire last night / this morning with no issues and no need for rooting.

Had to unlock it first (thank you HTCCode.com) which cost 25 Euros but now I have a standard HTC ROM on there and the only trace it is an Orange phone is the logo on the back of the case.

Rather than re-inventing the wheel....
Updating to 1.15.405.4 / Generic'ifying your T-Mo handset - Android @ MoDaCo

May look into that, although im not even sure how to go about it :rolleyes:
 
May look into that, although im not even sure how to go about it :rolleyes:
updated to the start of the thread which might make more sense....
is reasonably straight forward to follow just needs a few things downloading. Also check out my post at the end of that thread as there were a couple of things that were assumed but I had issues with.

Other than unlocking the phone (which took overnight to get a code) the whole proess takes about 10-20 mins. It does however reset everything on your phone
 
updated to the start of the thread which might make more sense....
is reasonably straight forward to follow just needs a few things downloading. Also check out my post at the end of that thread as there were a couple of things that were assumed but I had issues with.

Other than unlocking the phone (which took overnight to get a code) the whole proess takes about 10-20 mins. It does however reset everything on your phone


Ok many thanks :smashin:

Just had a reply from Orange, i will be calling them tomorrow.



Thank you for your email dated 22 April 2010, received into the Executive
Office. I have been asked to respond to you on this occasion.

When Orange buy handsets from manufacturers they obtain the right to apply
Orange software. This is to offer customers Orange products and services.
We only remove certain applications that can be replaced with the Orange
equivalent, however, I acknowledge your comments.

I would like to inform you that if you had taken your agreement via one of
our independent dealers, you would have received a generic phone. This is
when Orange have not placed their software on the phone and the original
applications are still present.

If you would like to speak to me regarding this, please contact me on 0870
870 0862. I am available between 09.30 and 17.30, Monday to Friday.

I trust this is satisfactory.



Yours sincerely



Jennie Simons
Executive Office
 
I would like to inform you that if you had taken your agreement via one of our independent dealers, you would have received a generic phone. This is when Orange have not placed their software on the phone and the original applications are still present.
I got the phone through a 'generic dealer' (Phones 4 U) and can report that I do indeed have the Orange applications loaded'

I trust this is satisfactory.

Hardly..... :thumbsdow

Looking at the Orange forums now...
 
I got the phone through a 'generic dealer' (Phones 4 U) and can report that I do indeed have the Orange applications loaded'



Hardly..... :thumbsdow

Looking at the Orange forums now...

I think i will mention that to her in my response!
:smashin:

She actually never anwsered my main point in the email which was if Orange insist on putting their "junk" onto the phone then the user should have the option to delete them since internal memory is limited!
 
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i got my phone via Mobiles.co.uk, it just seems to be unlocked and generic.

what kind of desire do youhave? the only ones that orange are supposed to have are the "black" ones?
 
i got my phone via Mobiles.co.uk, it just seems to be unlocked and generic.

what kind of desire do youhave? the only ones that orange are supposed to have are the "black" ones?

If you order the phone from orange direct it will have their crap on the phone.

I had a problem with bluetooth and rang orange, spoke to technical dept. The chap mentioned that its orange's policy to install they're version which comes from the manufacturer. The only phone that orange don't tamper with is iphone, I wonder why lol
 
She actually never anwsered my main point in the email which was if Orange insist on putting their "junk" onto the phone then the user should have the option to delete them since internal memory is limited!
Not sure how far you will get with them. I have a feeling that by Orange cooking their own ROM you won't be able to remove anything just as you can't remove things like googlemail etc which are part of the ROM. I don't think Orange will have much control of this, if they add their own apps to the ROM it will be part of the ROM and you will not be able to remove them :(

Anyway if you can get an unlock code from Orange you can wipe all the Orange stuff for free if you flash with a generic HTC ROM (also means you will be able to apply updates when HTC release them not when /if Orange decide to release them). Failing that I paid US$35 and I am reasonably happy with that since I did not pay for the phone on a £22.50/month contract.
 
Not sure how far you will get with them. I have a feeling that by Orange cooking their own ROM you won't be able to remove anything just as you can't remove things like googlemail etc which are part of the ROM. I don't think Orange will have much control of this, if they add their own apps to the ROM it will be part of the ROM and you will not be able to remove them :(

Anyway if you can get an unlock code from Orange you can wipe all the Orange stuff for free if you flash with a generic HTC ROM (also means you will be able to apply updates when HTC release them not when /if Orange decide to release them). Failing that I paid US$35 and I am reasonably happy with that since I did not pay for the phone on a £22.50/month contract.


Well i didn't get anywhere as exepected. When i mentioned allowing the user to delete the Orange stuff thats on the phone since internal memory is limited they said they would take note of my comments :facepalm:

This very well could be my last contract with them.
 
Well i didn't get anywhere as exepected. When i mentioned allowing the user to delete the Orange stuff thats on the phone since internal memory is limited they said they would take note of my comments :facepalm:

This very well could be my last contract with them.
Is it really that much of an issue for you? It is not that much effort to turn the phone into a standard HTC one.

Appears Orange have been worse with this phone than others ( seem to recall my touch HD had very little done to it) but other operators do the same with other phones ( my t-mobile vario iii was loaded with all sorts of crappy)

Perhaps it is just the fact I have had HTC windows mobile devices for years that I expected to flash to a stock ROM as soon as I got the phone. Indeed this is often to the only way of getting some important updates.
 
Is it really that much of an issue for you? It is not that much effort to turn the phone into a standard HTC one.


It's not the end of the world no, i used to debrand my SE mobiles so i could have a phone that worked as it should without the Orange branded stuff on.

I think because of the internal memory issue i'm more annoyed. I probably will end up flashing as you suggest :smashin:
 
I think because of the internal memory issue i'm more annoyed. I probably will end up flashing as you suggest :smashin:

That's likely to be my route too. I tried to cancel; the contract today (within the seven days) but Dialaphone (the company I went through) say you can only return the phone if it is unused. What a bloody cheat! :mad: How can you see if you like the phone or not without using it!! And they do not seem to have a means of contacting them to discuss. In any case, looking round, there are far fewer Desire deals on Orange now and those deals that ARE available are at a higher price. Anyone else noticed??? :confused:

Off to pursue Orange on their forums (and keeping a weather eye on XDA-Developers...)

Will let you know how I get on.
 
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That's likely to be my route too. I tried to cancel; the contract today (within the seven days) but Dialaphone (the company I went through) say you can only return the phone if it is unused. What a bloody cheat! :mad: How can you see if you like the phone or not without using it!! And they do not seem to have a means of contacting them to discuss.

That's against the Distance Selling Regulations so they have to allow you to return the phone.

Si
 
I would additionally complain that their crap doesn't even work! The messenger and app shop simply do not work for me!
 
Anyway if you can get an unlock code from Orange you can wipe all the Orange stuff for free if you flash with a generic HTC ROM (also means you will be able to apply updates when HTC release them not when /if Orange decide to release them). Failing that I paid US$35 and I am reasonably happy with that since I did not pay for the phone on a £22.50/month contract.

To wipe all the orange junk I'll need an unlock code which I can get online. Am \i then able to remove all the junk or will the Rom still need flashed with a generic Rom? If so where can you get the generic Rom from and does it invalidate the warranty?

Thanks
 

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