'Three-strikes' law for net users

[The News Bot]

France is planning a controversial new law to cut off the net of users who persist in downloading music and films illegally.
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[andrew markwort]

Okay, fair enough - no matter how we wrap it up, making a permanent copy of something and not buying the original is theft, and I can see this 3 strikes idea being used in a lot of countries. But the film/music industry has got to play fair as well. E.g. being able to download films for iPod at a fraction of the cost in the USA compared to the UK isn't playing fair. And as soon as effective regional encoding came back in with Blu Ray, so did the 'we've got you over a barrel' mentality of the distributors. So whilst USA gets a plethora of titles at low prices, we're being trickle fed scraps and being charged top dollar for the privilege.

Before the music/film industry starts complaining about how much money they're losing from illegal downloads, they might start acting less like crooks themselves.

[LFC_SL]

Hi

It isn't theft, it is copyright infringement. The difference is seven years

[andrew markwort]

It isn't theft, it is copyright infringement. The difference is seven years

Yes, but it's still wrong!

[chelsea.tone]

Originally Posted by andrew markwort

Yes, but it's still wrong!

Agreed.

[protector]

Originally Posted by andrew markwort

Yes, but it's still wrong!

true I fully agree

[LFC_SL]

Its not even an argument of perceived value of a product. If you feel that strongly, then buy the proper CD album off an online store for a fiver (I trust nobody still pays rrp in 2009)

You would not say you felt U2 cannot justify £12 for rubbish and tell the HMV security guard you are just walking out with it as that's how much worth you attach

As I have said many times on the forum, its because since Napster in the mid-90s people do not feel they have to pay for music

I do not see what is wrong with proposing a three strikes rule. Are you suggesting two previous warnings was not sufficient and reasonable? But when your internet is cut off you suddenly understand?

[j0hn]

another thing is I ran into someone who thought because he payed for limewire pro he was therefore allowed to download as much as he wanted and it was legal. There are alot of poeple out there who are just alittle ill informed

[andrew markwort]

I do not see what is wrong with proposing a three strikes rule. Are you suggesting two previous warnings was not sufficient and reasonable? But when your internet is cut off you suddenly understand?

I don't think anyone on this thread disagrees with the three strikes rule! For the record, I think that clamping down on fans swapping concert tapes or very rare remixes originally handed out to a handful of DJs is mean-spirited (since said fans have probably already got every legit release as well) but stopping piracy is perfectly sensible.

My comment at the start of this thread was simply that the Movie/Music industry seems to see this as a one way traffic and before they start acting like aggrieved innocents they might examine some of their own restrictive practices, which although probably not illegal, are IMHO questionable.

[Timbo21]

It's amazing how so many out there see downloading free music & movies as their divine right. What they don't realise is that all the music & movies they love to download for free wouldn't be there if everyone had their attitude.

Being someone who worked in the music industry for most of my working life, but now no more, I've seen how the music business has diminished, with many studios closing and people in all areas losing their jobs. It's not solely down to piracy, but there's been an increasing number of people who won't pay for their entertainment, including certain people I know in the police force.

Piracy is a general lack of thought for other people and an unwillingness to look beyond their own immediate wants. They often justify it by accusing record companies and film studios of large profits and ripping people off, which no doubt many have, but the majority who work in these industries are the same as anyone else out there, ie not loaded.

[LFC_SL]

Originally Posted by andrew markwort

For the record, I think that clamping down on fans swapping concert tapes or very rare remixes originally handed out to a handful of DJs is mean-spirited (since said fans have probably already got every legit release as well) but stopping piracy is perfectly sensible.

andrew

Whilst its nice you are taking a romantic slant, any talk of this is about that rare recording of the encore featuring the artist and his guitar with the band ushered off the stage is besides the point and not the issue at all, though somewhat related. This is predominantly about people using torrent sites to download album and dvd rips

Originally Posted by Timbo21

Piracy is a general lack of thought for other people and an unwillingness to look beyond their own immediate wants. They often justify it by accusing record companies and film studios of large profits and ripping people off, which no doubt many have, but the majority who work in these industries are the same as anyone else out there, ie not loaded.

I'd disagree with that

If you asked for a show of hands from a room of strangers, I think most if not all would agree in principle artists need to earn a living, and deserve to be remunerated for their art which others are getting enjoyment from

The issues are multiple. As above, the internet makes it easy to obtain high quality media and easy for people to get away with it. Why pay when you can get it for free so easily? And the authorities concentrate their efforts on the uploaders or those who download a collection to rival their local store so its all good
Secondly there is a higher proportion of people who think "oh they are minted anyway, it won't hurt for me not to pay"... or there are idiots like my flatmate who is a cynical **** and hates everybody except for 4 artistes at any given time

[Timbo21]

Originally Posted by LFC_SL

I'd disagree with that

If you asked for a show of hands from a room of strangers, I think most if not all would agree in principle artists need to earn a living, and deserve to be remunerated for their art which others are getting enjoyment from

I wasn't actually talking of a scenario where you ask a group of strangers in a room, was I?

Originally Posted by LFC_SL

Secondly there is a higher proportion of people who think "oh they are minted anyway, it won't hurt for me not to pay"

Yes, this is the sort of mentality I was referring to

[Tom Tom]

As a musician in a band, I see piracy as a double edged sword.

On the one hand I agree it is wrong, but on the other I see its merits.

It has been going on for a long time, all the way back to taping new albums for friends. (Its just much easier now with the internet)

I have to admit that I have downloaded things in the past. Usually its because I want to see if its worth my money. However with things like Spotify now I don't download music. I can vet it first and then buy it either from Itunes or a CD.

And with films, well as a student I was going to the cinema 4/5 times a week and buying DVD's and music because I had the funds. If the films were **** then it didn't matter. Ebay it, trade it, but now with such limited funds and "blockbuster" films disappointing on so many levels I resent paying £7 a ticket (occasionaly a drink) at the cinema for a film that it just bad. I watched some dodgy films recently and the ones I liked I bought or went to the cinema to see.

I see piracy of films as a great way of telling the industry to start making good films.

The trouble is I understand that 99% of downloaders don't use it the same way and are just creating losses from the companies.

The same goes in this ethos for music. It means an artist has to set a standard to live up to. Not just live off one great song.

Some times you tell people have tried, but it hasn't worked. Other times you think they gave up making good music a long time ago and are just exploiting their own name.

(Ready to be flamed)

[andrew markwort]

Whilst its nice you are taking a romantic slant, any talk of this is about that rare recording of the encore featuring the artist and his guitar with the band ushered off the stage is besides the point and not the issue at all, though somewhat related. This is predominantly about people using torrent sites to download album and dvd rips

Er ... this is sort of what I was saying. To repeat - I totally agree that piracy is theft (or breach of copyright; it's still misappropriation no matter how you phrase it).

Just to add to this - I've been a victim of piracy probably more than many on this thread. As part of my job I write textbooks. Okay, these are in a relatively obscure area of psychology, so they don't exactly make major bucks. Notwithstanding this, my publisher reckons that over the past ten years, I've probably lost the better part of £50k because of illegal copying (which is a lot more than I've received in royalties). And these illegal breaches aren't just technicalities like one student lending a copy of one of my books to their mates. For instance, I once by chance found a web site that had an entire chapter of one of my books freely available, with a promise of more to come. And I know of several sites where you can easily download entire textbooks.

[Phill1978]

we have some pirating at our work and i disagree with it totally but peoples attitudes are appaling. They dont pirate bluerays though and i doubt they will pirate 3d hd movies for some time when they come out, in the end its always the same people with low end kit pedaling poor copies to mates.. its low level but still damaging. I never see someone with a decent setup and an appreciation for quality doing such things...

.. which is why we are stuck with mp3 because the mass consumer cant tell there arse from their elbow when it comes to quality.