[Crustyloafer]

Things don't look promising for the future of Linn products. I can't say though that I didn't see it coming.

http://business.scotsman.com/index.cfm?id=593462007

http://www.theherald.co.uk/mostpopul...o_job_cuts.php

http://www.eveningtimes.co.uk/news/d..._hifi_firm.php

[Crustyloafer]

Mods, in hindsight perhaps this might be better suited ot the 'AV Hardware News' section. Perhaps ones of you would be so kind to move it and delete this post afterwards.

[Londondecca]

Sad news, whilst I was not really a fan of the Linn 'sound' they did transform the industry with some interesting products.

It is always a shame when redundancies are announced but I do hope they get the business back on track and start recruiting again.

[gazza73]

I wonder how Naim are doing then as they have the same type of product line up and are considered a high-end brand possibly resulting in lower sales.

[Paul Williams]

Personally I think Linn as a 'brand' has passed its sell by date and has been relying too heavily on its past and shrinking customer base. I had a Linn LP12 for over twenty years but stopped upgrading it when the cost didn't seem to justify the sonic benefits - I also stopped listening to the upgrades as they came out. Again from a personal point of view, the rather silly names, sometime arrogant attitude and products that just seemed overpriced never made me want to try to buy them so in the end I went for other brands. I guess I just outgrew Linn and so it would seem have many other people. I do hope they get it together and emerge stronger and fitter - time will tell.

Paul

[overkill]

Originally Posted by Paul Williams

Personally I think Linn as a 'brand' has passed its sell by date and has been relying too heavily on its past and shrinking customer base. I had a Linn LP12 for over twenty years but stopped upgrading it when the cost didn't seem to justify the sonic benefits - I also stopped listening to the upgrades as they came out. Again from a personal point of view, the rather silly names, sometime arrogant attitude and products that just seemed overpriced never made me want to try to buy them so in the end I went for other brands. I guess I just outgrew Linn and so it would seem have many other people. I do hope they get it together and emerge stronger and fitter - time will tell.

Paul

Just about right Paul. Some of the guys I used to work with went on to work for Linn dealerships, and it wasn't a happy experience by and large. There was a poor, and overbearing attitude, from Linn towards shop staff, and I'm sure this must knock on when trying to sell Linn gear.

I also agree about the silly names and high cost. Side by side comparisons with a lot of Linn gear didn't do it any favours, and in the current, as KK put it, cutthroat and uncertain market, you cannot be expensive, and just not good enough. There is just too small a marketplace left in hifi to be selling gear that doesn't justify the price tag. As Tag, among others found out.

Having said that, I hope Linn do turn things around, as they were once a shining beacon of quality amongst a sea of second rate Jap rubbish, and old fashioned sounding British kit. It would be sad to see them go.

[Knyght_byte]

personally i love the Linn names....heh

would indeed be a shame to see them go under, sadly as has been commented on they just dont seem to understand how the market has changed......to quote the borg 'resistence is futile'

Linns best bet would be to enter the world of AV properly for starters, do a cheaper range of processer/power amp combos but still with good quality tech inside, sure they'd probably take a bit of a hit on profit, but thats how it works now, take the risk and it'll pay off ten-fold in the future if you do it right......also they need to consider a fascia change.....the look is very very dated....Cyrus got lucky and so did Naim, their looks are not associated to a time period, Linn's is very 80's.....bold clear lines with solid large buttons etc....all looking like they belong in a Space Shuttle launch centre from a sci-fi film....so futury but from the 80's...heh

[alexs2]

Difficult times for many independent high-end manufacturers at present,with a small-ish base to sell to,and lots of competition from the big players in the receiver/integrated markets,who sell a lot more stuff,and have made significant inroads into the markets which were traditionally above them.

I for one do hope that Linn get things back on track,not just for historical reasons,but also because it's one of our remaining products that isnt yet owned off-shore.

[spinaltap]

Linn dealerships don't help the manufacturer: I was looking to buy two sets of Linn Komponent 110's, plus 106 centre, and enquired at my local Linn dealer on the likelihood of auditioning them.

The response was that they didn't carry them in stock (fair enough) and would only obtain at least one pair of the 110's if I made a comitment to buy them. They wouldn't accept my arguement that I could hardly comit to spending £2.5k on something I hadn't heard.

Another Linn dealer, 50 miles away, while perfectly content to let me hear a full set of Komponent's (they are very good, by the way), wouldn't let me buy them as 'boxes'. Instead, they wanted to charge £50 per hour, plus call-out charge, to install them.

As you can imagine, I won't be buying from either Linn dealer.

[Helicon]

Linn has been losing it ever since they went down the multi-room route. They should've stuck to what they did best like Naim, who've grown since the company was taken in a new direction after Julian Vereker passed away (no disrespect to him).

Linn peaked about 15 years ago, and was always a love it/hate it sort of sound. I'm not really suprised at the news.

I also think we're going to hear more news like this, and more severe, over the next year or so from other manufacturers.

[overkill]

Originally Posted by alexs2

Difficult times for many independent high-end manufacturers at present,with a small-ish base to sell to,and lots of competition from the big players in the receiver/integrated markets,who sell a lot more stuff,and have made significant inroads into the markets which were traditionally above them.

I for one do hope that Linn get things back on track,not just for historical reasons,but also because it's one of our remaining products that isnt yet owned off-shore.

Tbh Alex, John Jeffries argues that the High-end market is ok at the moment, and he and his fellow long term specialists aren't feeling the pinch. This, he argues, is down to two things. First, although the high end customer base (he says) isn't getting any bigger, it is however stable, and there is a lot of continuous buyers, eager to keep up with the best that he and the other dealers offer. Second, the dealers and companies at the high end that aren't in trouble, have done so because they haven't got involved in surround sound to any great degree and concentrate on stereo. Again, as I say, these are his views. However, he is a very respected figure in the hi-fi world.

But, the second one is exactly what some people are saying Linn got wrong. It meant too much emphasis on products competing in a very tough market that, as others have said, they just weren't ready to punch it out in. Look at the success the likes of Naim have had? However, their products are built like tanks, are narrowly focused, and while expensive, sound top notch. They also don't impinge on Naims stereo business................

The general view is though, regardless of Linns individual problems, that the market for hifi is not good at the moment. We are seeing, according to some, yet another era, due to the growth in portable and solid state storage, of quantity and size (small, that is) over quality.

On Linn dealers Spinal, that attitude comes from Linn not them. It's down to Linn's pricing and order policies. Ie a set of speakers taking up tons of room isn't going to be held in stock if Linn won't make it worth the shops while.

They don't.

[karkus30]

I think there will always be a case for high end equipment, but the right high end equipment by that I mean something thats exclusive and rare and preferably makes you are more interesting character you know who you are If a dealer backs the right horse then there is money to be made.

Linn have never had an exciting product for a long time IMO, some of the recent speakers I was once beckoned into a demo room to listen to am immaculate recording of some acoustic guitar work, all gentle picking work and harmonics.........I suggested they try a few tracks off Nirvana's Nevermind album as I didn't think low volume test records was a real test of hifi performance.........it was one of those moments when all eyes turn to look at you and you could hear the staccato thump of 6 chins hitting the floor .......I got my coat

Linn always seem like the gentlemans outfitters of the hifi scene, never seeking to do more than fit in and trying not to make any statements. When you cease to have a unique selling point business falters. I see so many companies in the course of a day that simply lack the basics like performing a SWOT analysis or market research, early intervention can turn around a companies fortunes.

Not a Linn fan as you might see, but losing any industry in the UK is a real traversty

commment from my Dad ....


Says it reminds him of the demise of the British motorcycle industry


Lisa~~ writing for her Dad

[overkill]

Originally Posted by lisa burrell

commment from my Dad ....


Says it reminds him of the demise of the British motorcycle industry


Lisa~~ writing for her Dad

Suppose it's quite a similar story really. Poor management, poor marketing and average, but expensive products. Oh, and of course 'can't compete with the Japanese'.............

[karkus30]

Originally Posted by lisa burrell

commment from my Dad ....


Says it reminds him of the demise of the British motorcycle industry


Lisa~~ writing for her Dad

Tell him its still alive and well and producing some fantastic bikes right now. 675 Triumph that has now inspired the new Ducati (now there is a turn around) through to a three cylinder 2.3 litre monster cruiser.

[overkill]

Originally Posted by karkus30

Tell him its still alive and well and producing some fantastic bikes right now. 675 Triumph that has now inspired the new Ducati (now there is a turn around) through to a three cylinder 2.3 litre monster cruiser.

My mate owns one of them. With the sidecar it's wider than a 4x4! The Engine is absolutely huge!

Second Triumph (new) he's owned................

[Tony_T]

Originally Posted by Londondecca

Sad news, whilst I was not really a fan of the Linn 'sound' they did transform the industry with some interesting products.

It is always a shame when redundancies are announced but I do hope they get the business back on track and start recruiting again.

Me too, remember the old Pink Triangle vs LP12 debate? I went for the Pink Triangle I wonder what happened to them?

[overkill]

Originally Posted by Tony_T

Me too, remember the old Pink Triangle vs LP12 debate? I went for the Pink Triangle I wonder what happened to them?

Sadly long gone. Of the big three that emerged as the main high end TT rivals in the 80's, only Roksan is still going strong as a company, and that after moving under an umbrella company.

[Tony_T]

They Live!

I remember they changed their name to the "Pink Triangle Project" and moved to Camberwell Green in South London, but that was years ago!

They've now moved to the dizzy heights of Catford!

This looks familiar...

Sorry Linn fans...

[Joe Fernand]

Hello all

Keep in mind selling/distributing TV's they don't 'manufacture' is now a big part of the LINN portfolio!

Joe

[la gran siete]

Originally Posted by karkus30

I think there will always be a case for high end equipment, but the right high end equipment by that I mean something thats exclusive and rare and preferably makes you are more interesting character you know who you are
(

ia ssume you meant that tounge firmly enbedded in cheek

[la gran siete]

Originally Posted by lisa burrell

commment from my Dad ....


Says it reminds him of the demise of the British motorcycle industry


Lisa~~ writing for her Dad

Triumph has a made a comeback

[alexs2]

Time to get it back on track thanks......

[overkill]

Originally Posted by Tony_T

They Live!

I remember they changed their name to the "Pink Triangle Project" and moved to Camberwell Green in South London, but that was years ago!

They've now moved to the dizzy heights of Catford!

This looks familiar...

Sorry Linn fans...

Aaaaah! I wondered who the 'Funk Firm' were!? I should have been suspicious as they went down so well in the reviews that you'd think they were an established outfit. Turns out they are..........

Just goes to show, that no matter how bad things get, if you have real talent, you can recover, even if you have to start over again from scratch. Linn, take note.

[la gran siete]

Cant say i feel any sympathy for Linn. They dominated the market selling a product ( Sondec)which I consider overated to the detriment to other ones which were superior , better made but never got the review breaks they deserved. I speak particularly of Alphason Sonata a TT believed by some to be ahead of its time but never given the accolades it deserved by a hifi media so obsessed with a product which was little more than a copy of an old AR design. One wonders how many palms were greased.Gyrodec was another one illserved by the media but survived due to its exports

[overkill]

Originally Posted by la gran siete

Cant say i feel any sympathy for Linn. They dominated the market selling a product ( Sondec)which I consider overated to the detriment to other ones which were superior , better made but never got the review breaks they deserved. I speak particularly of Alphason Sonata a TT believed by some to be ahead of its time but never given the accolades it deserved by a hifi media so obsessed with a product which was little more than a copy of an old AR design. One wonders how many palms were greased.Gyrodec was another one illserved by the media but survived due to its exports

Careful here LGS, that sort of talk can start flame wars..... I tend to agree though. I think the Sondek did more harm than good in the longer term. It was streets ahead when it first came out, but soon sounded dull by comparison when compared to products from the companies who reacted better to the dawn of the CD age. The idea, that what was really just a 'throwback' sound, was in fact evidence of greater 'musicality', is frankly, highly debatable.

I have spoken, both as a hifi salesmen and since, to so many people that said, 'the Sondek was last TT I had before switching totally to CD', that it smacks of more than a coincidence.

It was this attitude, that the Sondek 'just needed tweaking', rather than a complete re-vamp in terms of sound to meet the digital challenge head on, that has dogged Linn ever since. Electronics that were less than inspiring, speakers that were good but not that good - but Ivan knows best! Or does he?

Linn have relied on a lot of goodwill, a big name and loyal customers tbh.

Obviously now that's not enough.

[alexs2]

Originally Posted by overkill

It was this attitude, that the Sondek 'just needed tweaking', rather than a complete re-vamp in terms of sound to meet the digital challenge head on, that has dogged Linn ever since. Electronics that were less than inspiring, speakers that were good but not that good - but Ivan knows best! Or does he?

Would that be any relation of Ivor Teifenbrun perhaps!

Seriously though,like all products with a very long production run,it did need upgrades to keep in track with both the existing customers,and new ones.

I think they were/are caught with a product that's very difficult to change significantly without becoming something totally different now.

The cheap electronics(the LK range) were pretty workmanlike but I agree,uninspiring,although for the time,the Klout was a very decent power amp,with excellent bass.

The speakers...well,they need to be in active systems to get the best out of them,but that's to be expected I guess.

Anyway...I do hope they survive in fitter form than before,for the reasons I've already mentioned above.

[overkill]

Originally Posted by alexs2

Would that be any relation of Ivor Teifenbrun perhaps!

.

Tut, tut, no names no pack drill!

I've met 'Ivan' a couple of times, and well, let's just say we didn't agree.............. and leave it at that.

[la gran siete]

What annoyed me was that it was always Linn sondek this sondek that, almost like it was the holy grail ,overhyped to the nth degree whilst other worthies barely got mentioned with the exception of , maybe, Pink Triangle and Roxsan I just thought it overated. Mike Knowles invented the first all in one arm made from titanium, he also made the heaviest T/T on the market, fitted not with one but two motors. His platter was made from a steel/ plastic amalgam( didnt know you could do that )again very heavy.The name- Alphason Sonata. On top of that he came out with one of the finest, most copied power supplies ie the veritable Atlas. His T/T was certainly more expensive to produce than the Linn but he kept it at the same price point. Just a shame he stopped making them What I couldnt understand Linn dealers always seem to stock the same items and not others. For example there was never a Sugden or an Audio Innovations or ,dare I say it, Alphason product. And then someone once told me that dear old Ivor dictates which other company products are to be sold with his

[nuttyboyz]

Originally Posted by la gran siete

And then someone once told me that dear old Ivor dictates which other company products are to be sold with his

Absurd isn't it it must be very uncomftable to have to work in the kind of enviroment.Personally I have not got the Linn LP12 thingy,it's probably to most over hyped product in hifi history to me,and 2000quid for a piece of metal,talk about money for old rope.