Help with Home Cinema - Research done but advice needed!

[Gagzi]

All,

Please help me with my new cinema set up. I've got ideas and things that I want to do to fit my room. I'm converting my garage and really want all wires hidden etc.

I'm plasterboarding (industry standard soundproof plaster board) the garage in June and am going through the planning of it at the moment. I know exactly what I want to do but I'm just undecided on the equipment. I need help with this and I hope one of you or many of you can help me with this.

I'm looking to spend 5000 (hopefully less if possible) on the equipment.

I've had a look at the sony 5200 and it was quite tempting but it only
has one HDMI output which has put me off but it's reviews in What HiFi & Sound has been good and it's better than the Denon 2807 that I was going for. The GUI is going to be the clincher for me as it's going to be my first proper home cinema type set up and I'm a newbie to this.

What i require:

¤ In76 projector (hispek offering 999 with 1yr warranty or 1199 with
5yrs guarantee plus pull down screen) will need ceiling mount for this
too.
¤ Samsung 50" plasma (can get this for 999 on hispek) or equivalent.
¤ beamax 6ft electric screen seen on stone audio for 370
¤ Need an amp for all speakers and hdmi inputs( i have a ps3 and will
be upgrading to sky hd and also a sony entertainment system for £549)
¤ Kef in wall speakers - Ci160.2S speakers x 5 best price is at stone audio for
105 each - also had a look at Bw too and found CWM650's for 225 each but out of price range.
¤ Need a suitable subwoofer for the options above.
¤ Need a hdmi splitter as want amp to go to both tv and proj.
¤ Not must have but have seen sony vaio xl201 on net for 549 (without
blueray player)
¤ Need good cabling for all - my room is only 18ft in length and 7ft
wide. Garage converted to a home cinema. Three speakers will be at
front of room near screens and two in the walls at the back. Proj will
be approx 14-15ft away from screen. If anyone can give me any ideas on decent prices for cabling, i'd appreciate it.
¤ Also need a cabinet for all following: xbox, wii, ps3, dvd player,
amp, sky hd and sony entertainment system.

Can you let me know if I'm overdoing it or if there are any other options I should look at.

The reason that I've gone for the in-wall/in ceiling speakers is because I thought that I'm plasterboarding anyway and getting these fitted in would be a good idea. It's not costing me much more because the guy that is doing the work for me has experience in fitting speakers etc into the walls.

Since I'm having both Plasma and projector I had a bit of a problem - the reason was because my garage is only 7ft wide and my screen is 6ft. So I couldn't have any speakers around the tv on the wall without investing in an acoustic screen as the screen would drop infront of the speakers and this wouldn't be ideal.

Anyway I've designed a way to get round this where the screen will drop out of a lowered part of the ceiling and the three front speakers will be placed above the plasma and the screen tilting. The speakers will be placed into the wall which will be tilted at an angle towards that will make the face towards the sofa's and downwards at 45 degrees.

Please let me know of any ideas or if this is feasible. At the moment the total is going over 5K please let me know if you can get this to come down. The cabling is pushing it just over. Please give me an idea of what types of cables I can get.

I've been quoted £220 for 40m of QED Silver Anniversary speaker cables.
£148 Qed Qunex HDMI-P 10m, £25 Qed Qunex P-SW Subwoofer Cable 3m, then i've had another two 1m HDMI cables and at least 3 good quality 3 component leads of 1m each. This will cost me all in all around £500... does this sound right or is are there other options?

Sorry for the long post but i just need a final push so that I can spend all of this money on this.

A break down is short:

50" TV - £1K
DLP Projector - £1K
KEF In wall speakers - £500
Subwoofer - £500 - need recommendations
Sony 5200ES Amp/Receiver - £800
HDMI splitter for proj and plasma - £250 (Gefen 1input 2output)
Cables - £500
Beamax 6ft electric screen - £370
Sky HD - £300
Sony Entertainment Vaio XL201 - £549
Decent cabinet - £350 (Need a cabinet that has a glass front door as I have a litte one that will keep touching all of the gear.)

Total - £6119

Is there anywhere in there that I can get this down to £5000? Please help!

[MarkP80]

Hi Gagzi,

First suggestion would be to really think about your plans, to make sure you get everything right from the start. Time spent now will save you heartache later! Sit down and draw out how you will plan everything to connect together to make sure you get your cabling right.

On the cabling theme, rather than QED SA how about having a look at Van Damme Blue speaker cable. I've just cabled my home cinema with this, and am more than happy with it. Although it's quite thick (think maybe lawnmower cable?) it is very flexible and I found this to make it easy to install. What's more, it's cheap! I'd suggest 2.5mm2 would be adequate for your needs. I think there's a power buy on the forum, I got mine from these guys http://www.clearly-av.co.uk/V525060.html - that could save you a fair bit over SA.

For the rest of your cables, I'd suggest you consider Mark Grant on the cables section powerbuys. I have bought subwoofer and component cables from him and have been very impressed with the quality, performance and price. There's also a lot of interesting reading on that section of the forum regarding expensive HDMI cables.

I've no experience of the type of speakers you mention, maybe someone else can help. However, for a subwoofer you may wish to consider the old forum favourite, BK Electronics. Again, check out the sub forum, but I have an XLS200 whic cost £300 IIRC, and I'm sure it would be adequate for your room size, while saving a bit of money. As I say, do a bit of research on the sub forum.

For your amp, I'd seriously consider going second hand. This gives you a choice - same standard amp as you are budgetting for new, but for less money OR same money for a much higher spec amp. I went the latter route. Again, do some research on the appropriate section of the forum, but there are some bargains to be had in going this route.

Projector - have you demo'd? This is vital! I couldn't get away with DLP prjectors, both the wife and I suffered from bad eye fatigue. You may be ok, but I would suggest you must demo. Not all projectors are the same to all people, so go and try some and get the one you want - don't just go off the reviews.

HTH,
MarkP

[CaptainCook]

My initial question would be "What are your reasons for including both plasma and projector?"

In a dedicated light controlled room such as a converted garage, I'd have thought that the projector alone would be sufficent.

If you drop the plasma, hdmi splitter and associated cables, you are back on budget.

CaptainCook

[Gagzi]

Hi Mark,

Thanks for the advice. I'll definitely take a look at those cables when I get a chance tonight. I’ll also take a look at the power buy stuff you’ve recommended on the site before taking the plunge. As I said, the building work starts in June so I’ve got a few weeks to get this cabling right.

I’ve been planning this out now for two or three months so I’m comfortable with how everything will fit together but was just unsure of the quality of cables required and alternatives as I’m totally new to this.

The only other question I have is whether HDMI will carry sound through a HDMI splitter? Is there anything I need to look out for on the splitter to ensure that it carries through the sound?

Thanks for the Subwoofer recommendation. Again I take a look at that and also check out the subwoofer forum to see what else is out there. Again I’m new to surround and woofers etc so I needed some advice on it. Oh and I’ve found the amp for almost £170 cheaper on Amazon who say they’ll deliver end of May/beg. June but I’m not worried if they get late on that as the room won’t be completed till mid to end of June.

I’ve demo’d the projector and it was awesome. I went to my local seven oaks who had the whole thing set up and they had Sky HD and a HD DVD player hooked up to it. Really liked what I saw and the quality was something I’d not seen before (not got HD at the moment you see). Again I really appreciate your help mate… thanks a lot will get all those checked out and let you know what I decided on. I will update this thread when I start it all up and get some pictures on here.

Cheers

Gags

[Gagzi]

Originally Posted by CaptainCook

My initial question would be "What are your reasons for including both plasma and projector?"

In a dedicated light controlled room such as a converted garage, I'd have thought that the projector alone would be sufficent.

If you drop the plasma, hdmi splitter and associated cables, you are back on budget.

CaptainCook

Hi CaptainCook...

Thanks for your response mate. To answer your question I really wanted to use the Projector for sports and movies only (apart from the odd major show on HD, i.e Lost. With the Plasma I wanted to use it for gaming and normal everyday TV.

I’ve got an Xbox, PS3 and Wii so using all three of those all the time on the Projector wouldn’t be ideal. I’d want something I can turn on and off and go. I’ve heard that you have to wait for projectors to warm up and cool down (this is going to be my first projector) so I thought that this would be the best way especially as I’m always called away to do a chore to do something whilst I’m playing on the consoles (Mrs hates it when I play on those!! Plus with the little one running around all the time I’m pulled away from what I’m doing).

It would be ideal this way as sometimes I spend 20-30minutes away at a time with the game on pause. So if I’m on it four or five times a week that will be 3hrs a week away from it and then times that by 52 would be approximately 150hrs wasted! Not ideal at all and it all adds up and will be a waste of lamp life to be honest.

I like the way you put it though and it’s definitely got me thinking about a dedicated screen on the wall instead… I’m going to have to have a good think about it.

Thanks for the reply mate and I’ll have a good think about this.

Gags

[CaptainCook]

Originally Posted by Gagzi

Hi CaptainCook...

I’d want something I can turn on and off and go. I’ve heard that you have to wait for projectors to warm up and cool down........

It would be ideal this way as sometimes I spend 20-30minutes away at a time with the game on pause. So if I’m on it four or five times a week that will be 3hrs a week away from it and then times that by 52 would be approximately 150hrs wasted! Not ideal at all and it all adds up and will be a waste of lamp life to be honest.

I'm far from an expert in this field, but from what I understand a projector isn't perhaps the best medium for long extended viewing session (many hours per day). However, the on/off issue isn't a problem. By the time I've pushed the button to lower the screen, flicked another to turn on the projector, stuck a DVD in the tray and plonked my butt on the sofa, it's ready to go. Takes just a long if I was watching through the plasma.

Turning off, I hit off twice and leave the room. I do know projectors hate being switched on and off repeatly in a short period though. I think this kills the lamps.

In regards to long periods of pause, I haven't used the feature (but a small bell is ringing in my head about it's availability) that on my AE900 I have a button/option to kill the picture whilst I attend to my little ones.

Good luck with the build and look for to the pictures

CaptainCook

[Gagzi]

Originally Posted by CaptainCook

I'm far from an expert in this field, but from what I understand a projector isn't perhaps the best medium for long extended viewing session (many hours per day). However, the on/off issue isn't a problem. By the time I've pushed the button to lower the screen, flicked another to turn on the projector, stuck a DVD in the tray and plonked my butt on the sofa, it's ready to go. Takes just a long if I was watching through the plasma.

Turning off, I hit off twice and leave the room. I do know projectors hate being switched on and off repeatly in a short period though. I think this kills the lamps.

In regards to long periods of pause, I haven't used the feature (but a small bell is ringing in my head about it's availability) that on my AE900 I have a button/option to kill the picture whilst I attend to my little ones.

Good luck with the build and look for to the pictures

CaptainCook

Thanks again for that matey. I agree with what you're saying and this is why I'm going for both displays. I want to be able to use the projector for times like a big footy games or Blu-ray/HD movies that we want to watch - stuff like that. I wouldn't want to use it for loads and loads of hours a day.

Nice to hear that the warm up and down times aren't that long on projectors as I'd heard. When I went into Seven Oaks and first told them that I wanted a projector they were like... "You do know that you have to wait a while for them to warm up and then warm down..." I was like "Ok, thanks for telling me and I'll keep that in mind when I start using one."

Out of interest which Projector do you have and do you know anything about the IN76? It's got good reviews mostly and I've demo'd one which I thought was excellent.

Gags

[waqaszaib]

Hi, for the IN76, i can tell you as i have one. it is quite and good quality, it looks really nice to.

as for turning it on and off, it takes around 40seconds to power up fully and when you want to switch it of to stand by mode it takes 10 seconds or less. but for a full shutdown, you have to wait for the projector to coll the lamp down and the fan to go off which takes around 90 seconds, not that long.

I find the quality great at 110" diagonal.

hope that helps.

[Gagzi]

Originally Posted by waqaszaib

Hi, for the IN76, i can tell you as i have one. it is quite and good quality, it looks really nice to.

as for turning it on and off, it takes around 40seconds to power up fully and when you want to switch it of to stand by mode it takes 10 seconds or less. but for a full shutdown, you have to wait for the projector to coll the lamp down and the fan to go off which takes around 90 seconds, not that long.

I find the quality great at 110" diagonal.

hope that helps.

You're a star mate. My room is only 7ft wide so I think that I can only get a 6ft screen into there so the projector should be just fine!

I've just asked Joe Fernand in the cabling section and he's going to sort out a quote for all the cables so we're getting somewhere now.

Thanks again mate..

Gags

[CaptainCook]

Originally Posted by Gagzi

Thanks again for that matey. I agree with what you're saying and this is why I'm going for both displays. I want to be able to use the projector for times like a big footy games or Blu-ray/HD movies that we want to watch - stuff like that. I wouldn't want to use it for loads and loads of hours a day.

Nice to hear that the warm up and down times aren't that long on projectors as I'd heard. When I went into Seven Oaks and first told them that I wanted a projector they were like... "You do know that you have to wait a while for them to warm up and then warm down..." I was like "Ok, thanks for telling me and I'll keep that in mind when I start using one."

Out of interest which Projector do you have and do you know anything about the IN76? It's got good reviews mostly and I've demo'd one which I thought was excellent.

Gags

I like the amount of planning you are putting in!!! I think this makes a real difference as to whether your project is a winner. When you think you have thought of everything, think again and I 'll guarantee you'll remember something else.

I spent in the region of 6 months planning before I even considered taking a hammer to the walls.

In answer to your points:

Warm-up: My projector is ceiling mounted (see the third image in the thread here:CaptainCook's Cinema ) and has been either on or in stand-by since it was installed. Just checked and from pressing on, the image (not the Panasonic saver) is up in 20 seconds.

Projector: Mine is a Panasonic AE900. Picked up one quite recently (my first projector also ) when they were being discounted for the new models. The feature that swung it for me, bar the obvious good image quality was the lens-shift that helps with the flexibility of the installation and makes the position of the projector a tad more forgiving. I dismissed DLP projectors in my shortlist due to a demonstration many years ago when I noticed flashing rainbow type colours on the screen. I've not demoed one since, so I don't know if I'm still affected by this.

CaptainCook

[Gagzi]

Nice one CC (I hope you don't mind me calling you that?)

I love your install mate... lovely job there. You had enough room to get some great stuff done. Unfortunately my room is only 7ft by 18ft and therefore it is not wide enough. Hopefully it can look half as good as yours mate!

I've been planning for two or three months and it's been exciting and I really cannot wait until it gets started in June. I will definately be posting pics up as it gets going and I'll definately start a new post in this forum.

[Gagzi]

Right then... an update on the room...

I've heard from the builder and he's coming over on Saturday to pick up some cash to sort out our wardrobes in the little ones room (the only way I could get my Cinema Room was if I agreed with the Mrs to do the little one's first - so its happening!).

Anyway the good news is that the Cinema Room project will start on the weekend with me cleaning it out totally so that it's ready for the builders to get in there.

I'll take some pics of the state of the garage. Remember it's only got to be a ditty room of 7ft wide by 15-18ft long.

* The first thing that they'll do is get the under floor heating sorted.

* Around the same time they'll do the frame for the room.

* Once the room is done, the cabling will get sorted out and put in place. The cabling is consisting of Van Damme Blue series speaker cables and Bettercables HDMI cables.

* Electrics and lighting will get done in the room

* Plaster board will get put up... We're going to have to design the part where the speakers at the front go as the plasterboard is going to be placed at an angle pointing towards the sofa's so at around 72.5 degrees so that the three front speakers can be placed into plasterboard above the screen.

* The screen will then be placed into plasterboard so that it comes out of a slot underneath it. The screen will be hidden at all times until switched on.

* Holes will get put into the plasterboard where the speakers are going to go as I'm getting 5 * KEF Ci160.FS speakers next week along with a Velodyne CHT-8R sub woofer.

* Once the plaster all dries off i'll get everything painted. I think I'm going for 2/3 brown (top half of room) and the bottom part as beige so that the room isn't totally dark as the sofa's are chocolate brown, the paint will be brown and the carpet will be brown... there will have to be something to break it all up so i'll go for the bottom 1/3 of the room to be beige the whole way round.

* Once the painting has been done, we'll get the speakers fitted into the plasterboard.

* Fit all of the spotlights and lamps.

* Get the carpet in...

* We'll test out the projector's optimum positioning and sort out some sort of ceiling position for it so that it fits in with the screen perfectly. I think I'll get the vogels ceiling mount and then buy the option pole depending on what suits it.

* Projector will get mounted.

* The cabinet will be made for all of the av equipment

* Samsung 40" Full HD LCD and HD73 projector will get fitted with the LCD tv hung on the wall.

* Sky HD to get installed once TV is in place.

* Sony STR-DA 5200 will be calibrated and connected to LCD screen and the projector via an Octava splitter. As well as the Sky HD box, Sony Vaio XL301 Home entertainment system, PS3, Phillips DVD (HDMI upscaler), Wii, Xbox 360 and PS2 all going into the amp. I've still got to decide which equipment is going into which parts.

* Sofa's will get delivered and placed along with a massive bean bag from Next.

* Harmony 895 will be purchased and configured to switch all of the damn things on!

This should all be completed by June 21st so we've got a long way to go but hey... it doesn't sound bad does it?

Wish me luck....

Gags

[MarkP80]

Gags,

Sounds easy, doesn't it

Just a point - have you thought about maintenance to the screen? - How will you get it out if it goes wrong? You might want to think about a method of construction which allows this without having to tear your ceiling down

Make sure you take photos as you go along - we'd all like to see how this one goes, it sounds like it will be a great one.

ATB,
MarkP

[Gagzi]

Originally Posted by MarkP80

Gags,

Sounds easy, doesn't it

Just a point - have you thought about maintenance to the screen? - How will you get it out if it goes wrong? You might want to think about a method of construction which allows this without having to tear your ceiling down

Make sure you take photos as you go along - we'd all like to see how this one goes, it sounds like it will be a great one.

ATB,
MarkP

Thanks for the post mate!

I know it's not going to be easy - it's already doing my head in and we haven't even started yet. Yes I've thought about how we can get the screen out, there is going to be a hinged/latched section beneath the screen which you nobody will be able to see unless they get right up to the area where the screen comes out of the slot. It's a tough one to describe but yeah it has been thought about and should be fine.

As the speakers are in the same place it is important for this piece of the work to be done well as I'll be able to see the wiring through this area and ensure it's all ok.

Thanks for the pointer though - I could have easily missed that one!

Gags