Ben's new cinema room....

[benwillcox]

Ok folks, it's about time I started working on building my cinema room, so I have started this thread so that I can post my progress and ask lots of advice!!

The house is a bungalow that is built on a slope, so there is a 'basement' underneath the front half of the house (but it's actually at ground level at the bottom of the slope) which I am going to turn into a games room and cinema room.

Here's a plan view that I created in Visio:

The big grey square in the middle is a blockwork pillar that holds up the floor above and chimney etc, so that can't be moved! There is already a part block wall dividing the space into two, but that will be removed and replaced by a stud wall, as I want to change the position of the entrance to the cinema part and create a void to mount an equipment rack.

Heres some pics of the space right now:

Front left:

Front right:

Back left:

Back right:

A few points.....

I plan to cover over the window either permanently with a stud wall or maybe a removeable panel....opinions?

The little squares on the plan against the walls are columns, of which some of them will house speakers for 7.1.

My biggest worry is soundproofing to prevent sound leakage to the rooms above - thought about maybe 2 layers of Fermacell? Or would plasterboard be good enough? And should I first board over the entire ceiling including the games room part before building the stud dividing wall?

I have a million more questions, but I'll ask those later!

Cheers,
Ben

[Kenny Glasgow]

Ben

Keep the pics coming Looking good

[benwillcox]

Thanks Kenny!

Got my hammer out today, this marks the official start of work!:

The previous owner of the house has left me a little present - anyone want a Flymo? LOL

I think I've pretty much decided that the best way to go is completely insulate and board the entire ceiling as one lot before starting the stud walls etc, so I can get a good airtight seal around the perimeter. So that means I need to run the 2 new ring-mains, network cabling, projector cabling, lighting etc first...Careful planning will be needed!

Ben.

[benwillcox]

OK progress is slow, as expected. Finished removing the old block wall:

Here's a view from the back, this bit will be the games room.

There are radiators in the rooms, but they're pretty useless for several reasons:
1) the rads are plumbed into the CH system like this:

Yes thats right, spot the deliberate mistake, thats a single pipe run!

2) I discovered that the feed (marked <-IN) came from the output of a bedroom rad, so when the TRV shut off, the basement rad supply also turned off! (Not that it made much difference anyway!)

3) Without a separate stat and zone valve the heating circuit often doesn't call for heat leaving the downstairs with no heating.

So I've now decided that I might as well remove the radiators from both rooms, and install a reverse cycle heat-pump air conditioner in each room anyway. I have found a split unit that can drive two indoor units from one outdoor unit which should be ideal.

I think now I'll just install a single ring-main to feed both rooms, with a separate 20A radial for the air-con unit - this is the next job. I will also run cables for the lighting in both rooms, so I need to decide where they're gonna go! I want to avoid recessed lighting as I don't want to compromise the soundproofing of the ceiling by making big holes in it.

Ben.

[Gary Lightfoot]

Wow - I haven't seen a single pipe heating run in ages! I think old hospitals still have them as do telephone exchanges and they can work OK provided you balance the radiators properly, but I think you've made the right decision by going with a heat pump - if you soundproof the room so that it's pretty air tight (which it should be ideally), you way want some cool air in there for the summer, so a reversable chiller/heat pump is probably the best idea overall.

Gary.

[benwillcox]

Originally Posted by Gary Lightfoot

Wow - I haven't seen a single pipe heating run in ages! I think old hospitals still have them as do telephone exchanges and they can work OK provided you balance the radiators properly,

Hi Gary, I had heard that heating systems existed with radiators connected in series, but I'd always assumed that there was no pipe linking the inlet and outlet so that water was forced through the rads. But it seems the way my system is plumbed is actually by design - you learn something new everyday...!

Cheers,

Ben

[Gary Lightfoot]

Hi Ben,

IIRC, you had to reduce the flow to the radiators nearest the boiler and increase it the further away you got. This is because you had to allow hot water from the boiler to by-pass the radiators as well as flow through them so that some heat went into the rads, but also went onto the others in the run. You also had to take into account that the outlet water of each rad was not going to cool the hot water going directly to the other rads too much.

Quite a balancing act but still seemed to work. I think it's main reason was cost - you could save a lot of money on pipework (50% I guess) by just using one run instead of two like we normaly seee today in two-pipe systems. Plus the cost of labour to run the resturn leg as well...

Gary.

[benwillcox]

OK, I ran some new cabling yesterday. 2 x 2.5mm T&E for the new ringmain and 1 x 2.5mm for the 20A radial air-con supply. No pics as it's not very exciting!

Suddenly had a thought that it might be wise to install some smoke detectors, so I also slapped in a 1mm feed for a dedicated smoke detector circuit. I have ordered 3 mains smoke detectors with battery backup that are interlinked so when one goes off they all go off. 1 for each of the new rooms, and one upstairs. (I can add more upstairs as I decorate the rooms).
When we're in the cinema rooom it will be handy to know if the house is burning down around us I reckon....

Ben

[Gary Lightfoot]

Hi Ben,

I did the same thing with my smoke detectors for the same reasons - you probably won't hear the ones in the rest of the house so having an interlinked one in the room with you is a good idea.

Gary.

[benwillcox]

Not very interesting update but.....

Wired in a couple of the smoke detectors, one upstairs in the house, with a 1mm 3core & earth link to one downstairs. So if one goes off they both go off Safety first boys and girls...

Air-con unit is ordered, got the last one of this model here:

http://www.global-cooling.co.uk/mill...rter-12000.php

Should do the honours I think....
These guys were very helpful and responded very quickly to my questions by email.

I must admit that it was a bit more expensive then I had planned for, after originally reading threads on here about air-con and seeing the cheapo units on ebay. But of course I needed two indoor units so cha-ching, up goes the cost. Plus this is an inverter model which basically means it can vary it's cooling/heating output by varying the speed of the compressor. (cha-ching) The cheapo units just switch on and off to regulate the temperature, so are noisier and have less precise temperature control. (apparently). Global Cooling also hire out a vaccum pump and cutting/flaring tools so that you can make up the refrigerent pipes to the exact length needed, just like a pro install.

I now plan to run some conduit for the projector signal cable, I'll probably use 40mm pushfit waste pipe unless anybody thinks that's a bad idea? There will be about 4 swept bends in the pipe to get from the middle of the room to the equipment rack cupboard.
For now I'll just run a draw-rope through it and pull the cable through later (I hope )

Ben

[benwillcox]

Hey All....

Well a long time since the last post, but a little progress has been made :-)

I've now run all the cable in the ceiling for the lighting and light switches, which runs back to where the equipment rack cupboard will be. I've decided on using LD11 X10 dimmer modules for lighting control, as I use X10 elsewhere in the house so it might as well all be the same gear.

The outside part of the air-con unit has been bolted onto it's brackets as in this pic:

Havn't drilled a big hole in the wall yet for the pipes, or mounted the internal units. Need to build the internal partition wall first!

I discovered that I needed to submit a Building Control Notice, as replacing doors and windows comes under Part L of the Building Regulations, and subdividing a room is also notifiable work. The electrical work I am proposing is not covered under Part P, as it is simply adding light fittings and sockets outlets to existing circuits.

Anyway, the Building Inspector came round for the first time today for the first inspection, which is required before I can start plasterboarding the ceiling etc. I was a bit nervous as I was expecting a lot of difficult questions about means-of-escape for the cinema room part, and questions about soundproofing the ceiling, insulation, etc.etc.
But no, he was only here for about 5 mins, suggested I get a damp meter to check the walls for damp as it is a basement, suggested I get some advice from an electrician regarding the electrical work, but that was all that was mentioned! So I was told I can proceed with the plasterboarding and to call them out for another inspection before the plaster skim is applied.

I've decided not to run any speaker or video cable in the ceiling at all, but to run these within the walls either at skirting level or in the soffits I will build. I will be putting up 2 layers of 12.5mm soundbloc plasterboard on the ceiling, and stuff a load more fibreglass insulation in between the joists.

Game on.

Ben.

[jamieuk23]

Originally Posted by benwillcox

Hey All....

Well a long time since the last post, but a little progress has been made :-)

I've now run all the cable in the ceiling for the lighting and light switches, which runs back to where the equipment rack cupboard will be. I've decided on using LD11 X10 dimmer modules for lighting control, as I use X10 elsewhere in the house so it might as well all be the same gear.

The outside part of the air-con unit has been bolted onto it's brackets as in this pic:

Havn't drilled a big hole in the wall yet for the pipes, or mounted the internal units. Need to build the internal partition wall first!

I discovered that I needed to submit a Building Control Notice, as replacing doors and windows comes under Part L of the Building Regulations, and subdividing a room is also notifiable work. The electrical work I am proposing is not covered under Part P, as it is simply adding light fittings and sockets outlets to existing circuits.

Anyway, the Building Inspector came round for the first time today for the first inspection, which is required before I can start plasterboarding the ceiling etc. I was a bit nervous as I was expecting a lot of difficult questions about means-of-escape for the cinema room part, and questions about soundproofing the ceiling, insulation, etc.etc.
But no, he was only here for about 5 mins, suggested I get a damp meter to check the walls for damp as it is a basement, suggested I get some advice from an electrician regarding the electrical work, but that was all that was mentioned! So I was told I can proceed with the plasterboarding and to call them out for another inspection before the plaster skim is applied.

I've decided not to run any speaker or video cable in the ceiling at all, but to run these within the walls either at skirting level or in the soffits I will build. I will be putting up 2 layers of 12.5mm soundbloc plasterboard on the ceiling, and stuff a load more fibreglass insulation in between the joists.

Game on.

Ben.

wow that projector is HUGE !!

[Jeffers01]

The fan looks like it might be a bit noisy. Hope the giant projector is well away from your seating position

[Jon Boy]

ooohhh i love these progressive posts of people building their h.c's!

Loving the work so far Ben , just remember to go for the shortest s/b boards you can get as they are heavy and hard to handle , it's deffinatly a two man job!
Also make sure you use lots of fixings on the second layer to avoid cracks in the plaster once its skimmed

Jon

[benwillcox]

Originally Posted by Jon Boy

Loving the work so far Ben , just remember to go for the shortest s/b boards you can get as they are heavy and hard to handle , it's deffinatly a two man job!
Also make sure you use lots of fixings on the second layer to avoid cracks in the plaster once its skimmed
Jon

Cheers Jon. I already have the soundbloc boards, I got 8x4 sheets that I ordered at the same time as some normal plasterboard that I had to get to redo the living room ceiling - you're right, it's mega heavy stuff, should be interesting getting it up there!

I will follow your advice about the fixings, thanks for that!

Cheers,
Ben.

[Jon Boy]

No worries Ben , depending on how soundproofed you want it , some people ( to save money) do the first layer in normal plasterboard and the second in soundbloc!
The first layer only needs a few fixings to hold it in place but put plenty in the second and dont forget you'll obviously need longer screws for the second layer! Common sense really :thumsup:

Jon

[benwillcox]

Originally Posted by Jon Boy

No worries Ben , depending on how soundproofed you want it , some people ( to save money) do the first layer in normal plasterboard and the second in soundbloc!
The first layer only needs a few fixings to hold it in place but put plenty in the second and dont forget you'll obviously need longer screws for the second layer! Common sense really :thumsup:

Jon

Well I want as soundproofed as I can get, without getting clever with resilient channel and all that stuff. Got my mate round today to start putting the boards up, we stuffed a load more insulation between the joists - as I understand it you would normally leave it a bit 'fluffed up' for normal heat retention purposes, but need to jam as much in as possible for maximum sound proofing!

Heres a pic with the insulation up there:

Those boards are seriously heavy, we used a couple of props to make sure they didn't fall on us whilst putting the screws in, but still very awkward!

Well we've done nearly half of the first layer of the cinema room part - so that's about 1/8 of the complete ceiling!!

Would you recommend filling the gaps between the boards on the first layer with jointing compound or whatever it's called? I plan to seal around the edges with a flexible acrylic sealant before fitting the second layer too.

Cheers,
Ben.

[mattym]

consider something between layers of PB, Sheetbloc or GreenGlue to help damp the boards and reduce transmission through the boards

[benwillcox]

Originally Posted by mattym

consider something between layers of PB, Sheetbloc or GreenGlue to help damp the boards and reduce transmission through the boards

Was reading about GreenGlue both on here and avsforum. At that time there was no UK source of GG, but I see that now there is - except no prices are mentioned. I have 4.6mx9.5m of ceiling to cover, can you give me an idea what that would cost?

Ben

[benwillcox]

OK, now the ceiling is 1/4 done :-)

Started sealing round the edges of the ceiling with flexible acrylic sealant - doesn't go far, took 2 tubes just to do about 6m worth of edge, and thats with trying to cut the plasterboard as accurately as I could to minimise the gaps!

[wandgrudd]

Don’t where you get your flexible acrylic sealant from but screwfix do 24 tubes for £18 which might be a good idea if you are going to need a large amount.

[surrey lad]

Whats the CRT under cover!!! A 801 or 1208/9????

[benwillcox]

Originally Posted by wandgrudd

Don’t where you get your flexible acrylic sealant from but screwfix do 24 tubes for £18 which might be a good idea if you are going to need a large amount.

Thanks for pointing that out. I need to put in a screwfix order at somepoint anyway so I can make it sooner rather than later now!

Cheers,
Ben

[benwillcox]

Originally Posted by surrey lad

Whats the CRT under cover!!! A 801 or 1208/9????

:-)

Well spotted! Its just a mere 801s Graphics I'm afraid! Still, should be fun getting that bad boy mounted up on the ceiling.....

Cheers,
Ben.

[surrey lad]

Originally Posted by benwillcox

:-)

Well spotted! Its just a mere 801s Graphics I'm afraid! Still, should be fun getting that bad boy mounted up on the ceiling.....

Cheers,
Ben.

There is nothing 'mere' about a graphics or in fact any grade of CRT, as long as it's set up right, that is. .

[benwillcox]

Originally Posted by surrey lad

There is nothing 'mere' about a graphics or in fact any grade of CRT, as long as it's set up right, that is. .

Heh, yeah I know, I was just trying to be modest

Ben.

[baldrick]

Originally Posted by benwillcox

Cheers Jon. I already have the soundbloc boards, I got 8x4 sheets that I ordered at the same time as some normal plasterboard that I had to get to redo the living room ceiling - you're right, it's mega heavy stuff, should be interesting getting it up there!

I will follow your advice about the fixings, thanks for that!

Cheers,
Ben.

Hire a 'sheet lifter' for the day: http://www.hss.com/g/69940/Panel_Lifting_Winch.html

Job's a goodun!

[benwillcox]

Originally Posted by baldrick

Hire a 'sheet lifter' for the day: http://www.hss.com/g/69940/Panel_Lifting_Winch.html

Job's a goodun!

Ah, now that would make life easier!
However, being as stingy as I am, I think I will still continue the manual way - gives me some excercise eh?


Mattym if you are listening, I'm still interested in the costs for the GreenGlue...

Cheers,
Ben

[Lawrenzini]

looking good so far

[benwillcox]

Originally Posted by Lawrenzini

looking good so far

Thanks!

OK some progress this weekend.... First we drilled a hole through the wall to run the pipes and cables for the air-conditioning unit. Used an 80mm TCT core cutter on my SDS drill:

Had to buy some more insulation for the gameroom bit - there was already 100mm between each joist, but we added another 200mm to it:

Then we put some more boards up:

I seem to have made a miscalculation as we've used up all the soundbloc boards on just one layer
Better order some more then. Havn't yet boarded right up to the french doors, as they need to be replaced and they might need a lintel putting in yet. Also in the corner I need to extend the central heating drain cock to below the ceiling level.

Sorry these pics are all a bit dark, I've only got a single light bulb in there now until all the lights are wired in properly! The gameroom part is going to have 2 x 2.4m tracks and lights which means I don't have to cut holes in the ceiling (which will affect the soundproofing), but I can use some nice halogen spots that I can aim around the place. I ran each cable back to the equipment rack as a separate feed so that I can have each on a separate dimmer if I feel the need....

Also had a look on the audio-alloy website to get a rough idea of cost of the GreenGlue. Looks like it's going to be mega expensive so that's probably out. Does anyone know if there is any advantage to using anything else between the 2 layers of plasterboard i.e. normal silicon sealant etc, or is that a waste of time?
Cheers,
Ben