Projector and light coloured walls

[simonprr]

Hi,

I've been working on my lounge for a while now and decided to have a dark brown type colour for the wall where the TV and projector screen will be. Trouble is that finding a colour I like and thats a good contrast to go on the other walls without making it too dark is quite tricky!

I've tried a few colours but I'm wondering if I just stick with white would it cause too much reflection and wash out the picture when I get a projector and screen etc? I've read lots of people mention it in other threads. I don't really like the idea of having pull out curtains or dark fabric along the walls.

Here's a pic... I've painted the rad the same colour as the wall now. The screen will be in the middle of that wall and will come down from the ceiling. Obviously blackout blind at the window etc.

Any advice appreciated.

Thanks

[english_bob]

[albriscoe]

My advice would be to colour the ceiling and side walls at least up to this side of the door casing.

that will be a massive improvement on what your gonna get as it is as it will very washed out

[simonprr]

Originally Posted by albriscoe

My advice would be to colour the ceiling and side walls at least up to this side of the door casing.

that will be a massive improvement on what your gonna get as it is as it will very washed out

Thanks for the reply

Do you mean colour up to the corner between the light switch and door? I was thinking of doing that but I can't really do the same the other side as it would mean having a break in the middle of the wall and that would look a bit strange!

Trouble is I have to still keep it looking like a lounge, so can't really do the ceiling. If I went for a slightly darker colour (than white) such cream or beige on the walls would that make enough difference?

I've seen a lot of people's great home cinema installs here and quite a few have light coloured walls, so is this really that much of a big problem? I suppose it does depend on the brightness of the projector?

[albriscoe]

The problem is Simon

having bright walls and ceiling will really reflect the light back from your screen, their really is nothing better than being able to darken your walls and ceiling immediatley to the sides and top of the screen.

I know its not a dedicated room you have but thats a compromise you will have to make, doing it cream or beige mate will in my opinion do nothing to stop the washed out effect you will get

if you could do up to the corner of the door opening where the switch is and mask off the wall at the otherside so its a neat line that would be good but then you have the ceiling to contend with.

if you take a look at my blue thread you will see what I mean.

[simonprr]

I realise that that is the ideal, but that must be pretty difficult in 90% of home cinemas, even professionally installed ones. I've been looking at more here recently and tons of people have light-ish coloured walls and don't comment on it, maybe they live with it or get used to it? or is it one of these things that once u see it in the prefect scenario, u notice it more? not sure... i don't see that many people comment on it though and certainly not in this thread!

What I don't get though is the professionally installs... the ones here: Home Cinema Installation | Dedicated Cinema Rooms | Projector / Plasma Cinemas Custom Installation are simply amazing. But majority of them don't have dark walls at all...the Lay-z-boy Cinema for example there has very light coloured walls. I'm surprised because surely if you paying for a pro to install your home cinema you would want it perfect. Especially as some of those are dedicated rooms. Do you know why? Is there a pro "secret" we don't know? Although it is obviously fact that it will happen with light coloured walls. I've seen a couple have grey screens, but not many. I guess thats one way round it? Majority of the pro's have white 1.0 gain or higher I think though, so thats definitely the most popular type of screen.

Anyway, back to my problem...surely there is a difference in reflection between a white wall and a beige wall? Or is that difference so slight that it would make no noticable difference?

I was considering doing up to the corner where the door ends and probably the door aswell, but then I'll have the problem the other side. Do you think it would look ok with it just stopping part way along the wall? I've been trying to imagine what it will look like - it's difficult to imagine and I don't have much paint/funds left. I could certainly make it neat its whether it would look strange. Do you know what I mean?

I've looked at your threads before and meant to post, but was too gobsmacked! What you have there is amazing, simply fantastic! I think all of it is awesome - not just the home cinema, which is pretty impressive anyway especially with your treatment. It is difficult to tell the difference from photos though, but do see what you mean - the light hitting the velvet just soaks it up completely. Even a black matt wall will reflect a tiny amount, but that velvet somehow stops it all!

[MarkP80]

To be honest, I'd consider doing the side walls a cream/beige colour anyway. I personally would find white too stark. Is there a cream colour in the same range as the dark you have used? It will make a difference in my personal experience, and will make the room generally cosier. I'd put the same colour on the ceiling too. Leave the coving and paintwork white if you really want to.

Cheers,
MarkP

[Gary Lightfoot]

Light coloured and reflective surfaces only effect intraimage contrast and not on/off, so predominantly dark scenes will look fine. It's the brighter mixed scenes that tend to get effected - the bright parts can wash out the dark parts, especially if they're near a wall or ceiling. Many people aren't aware of that problem so don't realise the lighter walls are having a detrimental effect on the image. It's not until you try black cloth that you realise that improvements can be made. Ignorance is bliss so to speak.

Even with non optimal colours you can still enjoy a projector so don't let that stop you.

You could try getting the pj etc set up and watch a movie and see if you notice anything you consider to be disappointing, but if it looks good enough to you then stick with what you're going to do. In a dedicated room it's easier to go all black, but in a lounge you still want it to look like a lounge, not a dungeon, so it has to be a bit of a compromise IMHO.

Gary

[Skars]

Take a look at my thread, link in sig. I used some paint recommended by some of the other forum users and married it up with a creamy beige from the same range. Really I cannot rate this paint highly enough.

1. They both go well together
2. They have excellent light absorbtion capabilities.
3. Most importantly they have very high WAF.

My ceiling is painted matt white and yes I do get reflections off the ceiling and walls but tbh the results are still very very good and all this in a lounge that's used on a daily basis. My wife wouldn't stand for it being too dark and gloomy, plus we have 11m2 of south facing glass doors so it stays fairly light and only gets really dark at night.

HTH

[albriscoe]

the lads here are right

my cinema room for the first 18 months was also our sitting room and general entertaining room until we finished building so thats why we had to do it light coloured so we could use it everyday.

As it is now its impossible to read a paper down their without the lights on but as its now a dedicated room I don`t anyway, read papers that is .

their will always be compromises when its a dual purpose room and unfortunatley its the cinema side which usually takes second place because of her indoors which is understandable.

Theirs a good thread here which is worth a read

Maximising image contrast.

just read post 288 and 291 to see how doing it wrong can cause depair

I might like to point out that until I saw a mates pj in his light treated room I thought mine was ok

Its all down to how much you want to get from your own pj and how far you`re willing to go to achieve it.

I`m sticking to my guns when I say that a pj in a room with light coloured walls and ceiling will look washed out, if your happy with knowing that then go for it

cheers Al

[simonprr]

Originally Posted by MarkP80

To be honest, I'd consider doing the side walls a cream/beige colour anyway. I personally would find white too stark. Is there a cream colour in the same range as the dark you have used? It will make a difference in my personal experience, and will make the room generally cosier. I'd put the same colour on the ceiling too. Leave the coving and paintwork white if you really want to.

Cheers,
MarkP

Thanks for the input Not sure if it would look right on the ceiling though?

Originally Posted by Gary Lightfoot

Light coloured and reflective surfaces only effect intraimage contrast and not on/off, so predominantly dark scenes will look fine. It's the brighter mixed scenes that tend to get effected - the bright parts can wash out the dark parts, especially if they're near a wall or ceiling. Many people aren't aware of that problem so don't realise the lighter walls are having a detrimental effect on the image. It's not until you try black cloth that you realise that improvements can be made. Ignorance is bliss so to speak.

Even with non optimal colours you can still enjoy a projector so don't let that stop you.

You could try getting the pj etc set up and watch a movie and see if you notice anything you consider to be disappointing, but if it looks good enough to you then stick with what you're going to do. In a dedicated room it's easier to go all black, but in a lounge you still want it to look like a lounge, not a dungeon, so it has to be a bit of a compromise IMHO.

Gary

I see what you mean! Thanks for this, helps a lot

Originally Posted by Skars

Take a look at my thread, link in sig. I used some paint recommended by some of the other forum users and married it up with a creamy beige from the same range. Really I cannot rate this paint highly enough.

1. They both go well together
2. They have excellent light absorbtion capabilities.
3. Most importantly they have very high WAF.

My ceiling is painted matt white and yes I do get reflections off the ceiling and walls but tbh the results are still very very good and all this in a lounge that's used on a daily basis. My wife wouldn't stand for it being too dark and gloomy, plus we have 11m2 of south facing glass doors so it stays fairly light and only gets really dark at night.

HTH

Thanks tons for this - you may have just presented my solution! I've just bought 3 tins of corset (really hope thats enough as it's quite a large room). It's not in exactly the same range - the brown ish wall is temping from the Fashion for Walls Indulgence range. Hope it's gonna be ok!

Does the fact that you've done the area on the ceiling where the projector screen comes out help with the reflections?

Whats WAF?

Your setup looks great btw

Originally Posted by albriscoe

the lads here are right

my cinema room for the first 18 months was also our sitting room and general entertaining room until we finished building so thats why we had to do it light coloured so we could use it everyday.

As it is now its impossible to read a paper down their without the lights on but as its now a dedicated room I don`t anyway, read papers that is .

their will always be compromises when its a dual purpose room and unfortunatley its the cinema side which usually takes second place because of her indoors which is understandable.

Theirs a good thread here which is worth a read

Maximising image contrast.

just read post 288 and 291 to see how doing it wrong can cause depair

I might like to point out that until I saw a mates pj in his light treated room I thought mine was ok

Its all down to how much you want to get from your own pj and how far you`re willing to go to achieve it.

I`m sticking to my guns when I say that a pj in a room with light coloured walls and ceiling will look washed out, if your happy with knowing that then go for it

cheers Al

Well I guess it's all down to what your used to and expect, like you say.

Will have a look at that thread, pity some of the pics are broken now.

I'm surprised no one has come up with a solution for this... like when the screen comes down a completely black screen comes out the casing along the ceiling, probably quite difficult to do though. Movable curtains/blinds along the side walls I guess are one solution but not possible when it comes to the ceiling.

Does a grey screen help then? I'm guessing it can't solve the problem entirely...

Thanks for the replies

[Gary Lightfoot]

Originally Posted by simonprr

Does a grey screen help then? I'm guessing it can't solve the problem entirely...

Yes they do.

Being less than unity gain like a matt white screen, they reflect less light back into the room, so less light can bounce back. The base grey also helps improve apparent black levels, so darker parts look darker with a grey screen than with a white screen.

A screen with gain aims the reflected image back in a tighter cone, so less hits the walls so less bounces back. The light that does bounce back from the walls reflects back into the room a tighter cone and less toward the viewer so overall is more controlled than with a matt screen.

A grey screen with gain is better still, but higher gains tend to use glass beading which can give the screen a visible structure and/or 'sparklies' which some may find distracting. The only genuine grey screen with angular gain (not glass beaded) is the Stwearet Firehawk and that tends to be quite expensive.

If you ever get to see a white/grey split screen in action in a well lit room the advantage of the grey over the white is more than apparent.

Some will say that grey screens dull the image, this is usually due to the gain being less and not the grey - grey is just white at a different reflectance, and the effect is similar to an aging lamp. When grey scale is calibrated, each shade of grey is set with identical mixes of RGB (D65) so unless there's a genuine colour shift white will still reflect as white.

So although grey screens help improve ANSI/simultaneous contrast, you can't beat having a room with dark non reflective surfaces and ful light control with no other light sources present.

Gary

[Andy104]

Originally Posted by Gary Lightfoot

Yes they do.

Being less than unity gain like a matt white screen, they reflect less light back into the room, so less light can bounce back. The base grey also helps improve apparent black levels, so darker parts look darker with a grey screen than with a white screen.

A screen with gain aims the reflected image back in a tighter cone, so less hits the walls so less bounces back. The light that does bounce back from the walls reflects back into the room a tighter cone and less toward the viewer so overall is more controlled than with a matt screen.

A grey screen with gain is better still, but higher gains tend to use glass beading which can give the screen a visible structure and/or 'sparklies' which some may find distracting. The only genuine grey screen with angular gain (not glass beaded) is the Stwearet Firehawk and that tends to be quite expensive.

If you ever get to see a white/grey split screen in action in a well lit room the advantage of the grey over the white is more than apparent.

Some will say that grey screens dull the image, this is usually due to the gain being less and not the grey - grey is just white at a different reflectance, and the effect is similar to an aging lamp. When grey scale is calibrated, each shade of grey is set with identical mixes of RGB (D65) so unless there's a genuine colour shift white will still reflect as white.

So although grey screens help improve ANSI/simultaneous contrast, you can't beat having a room with dark non reflective surfaces and ful light control with no other light sources present.

Gary

Sorry to jump in on this thread but I have a similar problem and the same colour scheme. If I was to make a screen out of MDF and then paint it a shade of grey would this give me a much improved image quality? Also is there any people that would like to comment on how this screen would/could turn out if i was to make it out of MDF?

Andy.

[Gary Lightfoot]

It should work in the same way, though a lot would depend on the accuracy of the grey (colour shift) and the gain (reflectivity) it had.

Gary

[Skars]

WAF = Wife Acceptance Factor. And I have found that the best way of doing upgrades is to find items/decor with this in abundance. I have my screen dropping quite low out of the pelmet so light bleed onto the ceiling is kept to a minimum I have little problems with colours looking washed out except throughout the daytime. Although I'm not in Albriscoe's league my setup does very nicely until I can get somewhere big enough to have a dedicated. Discreet 106" screen install.... that'll do nicely