[nathsea]

Hi ,

First off Mods, please move if this is in the wrong area.

We are laying a new floor in our kitchen, I have spent the last couple of days removing all of the old tiles, I am now left with a fairly level concrete floor, with a few little raised areas of old adhesive that I cannot get off.

Will it be OK to tile over these bits they are no more than 2mm high, if i put down my adhesive thick enough will it be ok straight on top, should I use a primer first?

That leads me to my second question, I am putting down porcelain 600X300mm tiles, anyone have any recommendations for adhesive / grout for cream coloured tiles, on to a concrete floor?

Cheers
Nathan

[mightynimrod]

You'll be fine to stick them down over the other adhesive.

Any normal tile adhesive will be fine for porcelain tiles, just keep a sponge and clean water available to clean the face of them as you lay them - it makes sense to keep them clean as you go.

As far as grout is concerned.....if it's a high traffic area, go for light grey grout.

Do not go for cream/white as you'll regret it when your raking it out due to the missus moaning that she can't get it clean/ it looks grubby.

[nathsea]

hi

thanks for the quick reply, i shan't carry on chiseling away for a perfectly flat surface.

Is ready - mix as good as bagged powder adhesive, I dont want to get the mixture wrong , by mixing myself but if it is that much better then I will have a go, i am fairly competent,

Nathan

[mightynimrod]

Originally Posted by nathsea

hi

thanks for the quick reply, i shan't carry on chiseling away for a perfectly flat surface.

Is ready - mix as good as bagged powder adhesive, I dont want to get the mixture wrong , by mixing myself but if it is that much better then I will have a go, i am fairly competent,

Nathan

Ready mix is perfectly fine, powdered is just a cheaper method.

As your tiling on concrete then you should have no problems at all.

Good luck and post the pics when your finished

[deansocial]

aaarrrrrgggggghhhhh. DO NOT USE READY MIXED ADHESIVE!!!!!

To be classed as porcaline the tile must be less that 0.5%(think thats right) absorbant wich mean the readymixed adhesive cannot dry as the water has nowhere to go as it hardens as it drys where as powder adhesive dry via a chemical reaction.

You need a rapid set adhesive or large format that is ok for use with porcaline which means it need porcelbond in it. Buy white adhesive to help prevent any staining of the tile and if they are a polished tile they need stain stopping first essecialy if they are the cheap chinese rubbish from b&q(no offence they just are low grade).

[deansocial]

match the grout to the tile. mapei do 26 colours. then use a grout sealer to protect from stains

[nathsea]

ok, suitably confused now, they are probably not the best tiles in the world as they are from homebase . BUT the wife wanted them... so here i go!

I had read about porcelbond, in other forums, but got a bit confused. So should I go for powdered and mix with a drill? What consistency do i need to make it to, if using one of these powdered mixes should I use a primer on the floor?

Thought i had it sorted but confused now!! think i'll go off to a tile place to get the stuff i need..

Thanks all, I think

Nathan

[Sanders79]

I remember reading something on the net a few years back about the need for using porcelain compatible adhesives with porcelain tiles, the reason being to do with how the adhesive sticks to the tiles. I vaguely remember something about porcelain tiles being less porous than ordinary ceramic, so the cement in the adhesive has very little to key to on the underside of the tile, so make sure you get adhesive that says it is for porcelain tiles.

Personally I used powder and mix it. You can get fast setting stuff with a short pot life, the advantage of that is you can walk on the tiles sooner, the disadvantage is you need to get it down quickly. If you feel you need a bit more time getting tiles set then you can get stuff that sets more slowly, which is what I use in case I want to lift any and reset them (if there are dips in the floor etc).

Finally, use flexible adhesive if you have underfloor heating or it's a thin screed that might flex. Hope this helps - the last floor I did with porcelain was my inlaws' kitchen/dining room (about 18 sq metres).

EDIT: I forgot your question about primers etc, just follow what it says on the pack. Don't be tempted to automatically use PVA/water etc, as this actually stops some adhesive sticking to the substrate properly. The consistency of the mix needs to be like whipped cream, i.e. thick enough to hold a bead whan you trowel it and not just squeeze out under the weight of the tile, but not too thick that you can't spread it!

[Badger37]

FWIW I recently tiled a bathroom floor (a first for me) and after reading lots of 'tiling forums' etc. etc. I decided to use Wickes dry adhesive which I got on with and can recommend.

I didn't use a drill to mix, but only measured out fairly small quantities and mixed by hand and this worked out fine.

I also used Wickes grey grout which came out well.

If you don't do this sort thing regularly then either wear gloves or get ready for bloody fingers (I was in the bloody fingers category )

[Sanders79]

Originally Posted by Badger37

If you don't do this sort thing regularly then either wear gloves or get ready for bloody fingers (I was in the bloody fingers category )

Hehe! I can always tell if it has been a while when I haven't done any DIY, I get blisters from the screwdrivers etc.

[Paul 8v]

Originally Posted by Badger37

FWIW I recently tiled a bathroom floor (a first for me) and after reading lots of 'tiling forums' etc. etc. I decided to use Wickes dry adhesive which I got on with and can recommend.

Out of interest what did you tile onto? I've been told I need to lay a 18mm water resistant ply but I was wondering if there was anything thinner I could use?
Sorry to take the thread off topic but I didn't think it was worth starting a new thread for it!

Thanks

Paul

[deansocial]

use a powder adhesive like dunlop set fast plus or dunlop large format adhesive. PCI nanolight is also good. If you prime use a compatable primer to the adhesive but never i repeat NEVER prime with pva. SBR is a god primer but most tie places will have 1 that goes witht the make of adhesive that you are using. Remeber to stain stop them first if they are polished porcaline

[nathsea]

Thanks for all your replies, I dont think i need to seal the tiles, they are not polished, they are quite matt / rough surface to them. Is this right that i dont need to seal them?

These are the tiles

Homebase - Make a House a Home

Cheers
Nathan

[oldnewbie]

Sealer for Ceramic Tiles; the simple answer is they don't need one, however the grout which is porous will.

[nathsea]

These ones are porcelain though.
Nathan

[Ben]

Originally Posted by Paul 8v

I've been told I need to lay a 18mm water resistant ply but I was wondering if there was anything thinner I could use?

If you screw the floorboards down first, you can get away with 12mm ply. You'll then need to screw the ply down every 100mm. Make sure you use screws that won't protrude lower than the floorboards, as obviously you don't want to be snagging wires or pipes

Originally Posted by nathsea

Thanks for all your replies, I dont think i need to seal the tiles, they are not polished, they are quite matt / rough surface to them. Is this right that i dont need to seal them?

You should really seal porcelain tiles. I'd recommend you take a leftover tile/offcut into a tile merchants & see what they suggest. Sealant will only cost you a few extra quid anyway

[oldnewbie]

oops my mistake lol This will answer the question Tile cleaning, grout cleaning, grout sealer, grout cleaner, grout colorant, sealing and natural stone care

[deansocial]

they dont need sealing if the are glazed but cant see from picture. if you are going onto floorboards the minimum ply is 18mm wbp or adhesive warranties are void as they state minimum 15mm which aint available. or rip up and put 25mm down.

you need to prime ply both sides

[deansocial]

oh you can use ditra matting on foor board which is 4mm

[Badger37]

Originally Posted by Paul 8v

Out of interest what did you tile onto? I've been told I need to lay a 18mm water resistant ply but I was wondering if there was anything thinner I could use?
Sorry to take the thread off topic but I didn't think it was worth starting a new thread for it!
Thanks
Paul

I tiled on to a concrete floor - levelled with Wickes floor leveller.
See the other replies if you are tiling a wooden floor

[deckingman]

To the OP. Just hope you've got a water cooled diamond bladed tile cutter. God porcelane tiles are hard!

[deansocial]

Originally Posted by deckingman

To the OP. Just hope you've got a water cooled diamond bladed tile cutter. God porcelane tiles are hard!

you only need a diamond cutter for the cuts that are not straight. Score and snap straight cut and they are easy to cut.

A diamond blade needs to be 1 made for porcaline or it will struggle

[Sanders79]

Originally Posted by deansocial

you only need a diamond cutter for the cuts that are not straight. Score and snap straight cut and they are easy to cut.

Not necessarily - the tiles my inlaws wanted in their extension were not flat, they had a textured face, so when you tried the "snap", it followed part of the scored line before going off at an angle following the textured surface, not fun!! The porcelain tiles I laid in my old house were nice and smooth, so they did score and snap no problem.

[deansocial]

Originally Posted by Sanders79

Not necessarily - the tiles my inlaws wanted in their extension were not flat, they had a textured face, so when you tried the "snap", it followed part of the scored line before going off at an angle following the textured surface, not fun!! The porcelain tiles I laid in my old house were nice and smooth, so they did score and snap no problem.

I guess it depends on quality of the cutter and experience of who is cutting them.I am sing a £300 cutter and tiled more bathrooms kitchens etc that i care to remember

[blasted]

Originally Posted by Paul 8v

Out of interest what did you tile onto? I've been told I need to lay a 18mm water resistant ply but I was wondering if there was anything thinner I could use?
Sorry to take the thread off topic but I didn't think it was worth starting a new thread for it!

Thanks

Paul

A tiler I know told me to use a thin ply, i think i used 6mm. I banged about 100 screws into the floorboards to tighten them up, then another 100 or so into the ply. After that i just used a flexable rapid set adhesive (not ready mixed) that was for putting stright onto wood. No problems at all. you need a wood adhesive.

[deansocial]

18mm is the minimum. Even more so with large format tiles. Ditra matting can be used but all boards must be screwed first.

Other products are on the market like PCI pedicur or No More Ply but i haven't used them on floors only on walls so cant comment on how good they are for that aplication

[nathsea]

Originally Posted by deckingman

To the OP. Just hope you've got a water cooled diamond bladed tile cutter. God porcelane tiles are hard!

yep got one of the old specials from b&q a few years back. Is still working a treat, I use it for all of my cuts as I dont have the other type of cutter.

Done half the main bit of floor yesterday, going down well, got the hardest bit to do now. There is a step down to the kitchen, what is the best way to go about that?

Cheers
Nathan

[Ben]

Originally Posted by nathsea

There is a step down to the kitchen, what is the best way to go about that?

I'd tile the upright of the step first. If the tiles have a nice finished edge, you can then tile the top of the step so that the tiles finish level/flush with the tiles on the upright. If the tiles don't have a finished edge, you can put down tile edging/beading before tiling the top of the step

[nathsea]

Originally Posted by Ben

I'd tile the upright of the step first. If the tiles have a nice finished edge, you can then tile the top of the step so that the tiles finish level/flush with the tiles on the upright. If the tiles don't have a finished edge, you can put down tile edging/beading before tiling the top of the step

cheers
Shall give that a go

Nathan

[thefathacker]

Originally Posted by nathsea

Hi ,

That leads me to my second question, I am putting down porcelain 600X300mm tiles, anyone have any recommendations for adhesive / grout for cream coloured tiles, on to a concrete floor?

Cheers
Nathan

Black grout every single day and twice on a Wednesday. If you must go with another colour - go as dark as you can. Anything lightish will soon look dark anyway - but will not be evenly dirty. I know, I have the teeshirt, wrote the book and directed the movie and had five years of 'told you so's' from my better half!

And for what it's worth - if you haven't had the cutter question answered - I once laid porcelain tiles and cut them with a bog standard 30 quid Plasplugs electric tile cutter. As I recall the blade lasted for that job (approx 12 sq m) and well into the next!