[EriX]

--update-- didn't realise that forum hosted images are only visible to people logged in. Have moved the last set of images to photobucket the post is http://www.avforums.com/forums/home-...ml#post9701430 and the full photobucket album is here http://s689.photobucket.com/albums/vv254/ericharth/

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Hi All

At last I get to start my own cinema DIY thread :D

I'm moving in with my girlfriend who owns her house so this is my first chance to actually do some DIY on a house (always previously lived in rented houses). The rest of the house is not really suited to my home cinema electronics so I have been granted the attic for my stuff! It's a converted loft, you can see the existing layout in the sketchup pictures 1 and 2, the third is an indication of what I'm working towards. The first job is to remove the large cupboard at the back which looks to have previously housed a water tank and is built like a bomb shelter. The amount of rubble it produced was astounding!

Next the floor in the old cupboard needed raising to the level of the rest of floor. Finally after that could start building the new boiler cupboard Thankfully I had plenty of help and tuition from my girlfriend's dad.

Down the left side of the room (looking at the cupboard) I want to create a bunch of storage space behind the position of the existing wall. This will have to wait until for a short while though until the back bedroom is painted so I can start moving my stuff in there temporarily.

I'm hoping to get a 50pz80 for the front wall. I've bought a pair of MK K4Ts for the rear and looking at a Denon 1909 and considering a trio of K5s for the front. I want to run ropelight on the underside of the roof beams attached to a dimmer on the side of the new cupboard and also remove the banisters and install a floor door to cover the gap.

All comments and suggestions welcome, I'll try and keep the thread updated with pics as I know that's what you all like.

Eric

[EriX]

Even though I didn't get any replies last time I thought I'd update the thread with my progress.

I had last week off work and inbetween holiday things and new year etc I got the side storage cupboards pretty much finished off. Just a couple of small bits to complete, the far right panel isn't screwed in yet and I need to build a little box to cover the pipes between the cupboards and the boiler cupboard that'll also be a conduit to my computer cables which will live in the cupboard.

I've had a thought about the overhead lighting for the room. Initially I was going to run rope light down each side under the beams, but I've changed my mind as one side would just be illuminating the cupboards and I didn't want to do just one side as it would look lopsided. So, I thought that I'm going to do a "floating wall" effect but in the apex of the ceiling. I'll attach a board the length of the room at the apex about 40-50cm wide. Then I'll sink a number of flush mounted down lights down the middle and also run a line of ropelight down both sides. This'll hopefully give me the ambient tv watching illumination I am after. I just need to come up with a suitably cunning plan for attaching it all up there. I'd like to attach something to the apex and build the floating ceiling in such a way that i can just lift it up and attach it somehow, so it can be removed if necessary without too much damage and unscrewing etc.

Still haven't figured out the floor door yet either.

Eric

[scsracing]

Looks good,your getting there.Sure all your work will pay off.Nice having your own room where it doesn't have to be a living room at the same time

[Axl]

This thread reminds me I need to break it to her in command that the loft rooms she'd like aren't actually going to be used as bedrooms

The lights down the middle sound interesting, will look forward to how those come out.

[EriX]

Cheers guys :D

It's my birthday today and my lovely girl has bought me a beer fridge for the attic!! :D:D:D

[oldnewbie]

Nice one and happy birthday dude The project is starting to look cool.

[EriX]

Hi Guys

Just a little update. Have started chasing the walls. When a wall gets re-skimmed how deep is the new layer?

Also can anyone help me with my speaker dilemas in this thread -> Rear speaker advice for strange shaped attic

I know it might be odd to think about swapping m&k speaker for q-acoustics but I'm just not sure they'll fit very well.

Cheers
Eric

[Mister Gonzo]

EriX, when a plasterer skims a wall it is usually a couple of mm. where you've chased the wall, they'll put a browning coat on to the brick first which will bring the skim up to the same level as your existing plaster.

[EriX]

Thanks Gonzo

The reason I ask is because the at the moment the conduit sits either just a little below, which sounds fine and at some points flush with the existing skim. Also I'm not sure and will have to check as to whether there are a few points that are 1-2mm heigher than the existing skim. I was wondering whether I'm actually going to have to take to removing brick material rather than just the plaster.

Thanks

Eric

[Mister Gonzo]

Although it's a pain, the best thing is to chase the brick work too so that the cables/conduit will then sit under the level of the plaster. If you just skim onto the conduit, as it's such a thin coat chances are it'll just crack off.

Best if you chase back far enough to allow for both a browning coat and a skim coat.

[EriX]

Thanks again Gonzo

Generally how thick is a browning coat, so I know how far below the existing skim the conduit should be.

Many thanks for your help

Eric

[Mister Gonzo]

It's usually about 5mm. I'd chase the brick work to a depth of 5mm to give the plasterer room for the two coats.

[EriX]

Cheers Gonzo

I suppose I'll have to make some noise and mess tonight then.

Eric

[EriX]

gah! and I thought I was doing so well

I took to the wall tonight by drilling down both edges at about 1cm apart to a depth of about 1cm. Then I hit it with the big chisel...... nothing happened! So I whacked it a bit more and still nothing. One of the bricks cracked and left quite a large dent where it crumbled from. Also now looking at it, how do you prevent the bricks from just cracking? Even if I was to buy an angle grinder and cut down each edge, how do you remove the middle without taking big uncontrolled chunks out nad having the bricks crack?

I've noticed a mention in another thread that modern bricks are softer than old ones. This house is about 100 years old.

Any advice please? Should I perhaps look to a professional with proper tools? There is a sparky living next door who I might be able to employ.

Thanks

Eric

[oldnewbie]

I wouldn't be banging lumps out of 100 year old brickwork, Why not just dot and dab plaster board on the whole wall and then just use a Stanley knife where you need to have the cable run, then just get the wall finished by a plasterer Thats what I would do anyway.

[EriX]

old newbie, that was going to be my next question :D

I was wondering if I'd be able to cover the existing plaster with new board which would give me enough depth for the conduit and a suitable covering.

The wall has a double plug socket on it and a light switch, how do I go about bringing them forward to the level of the new wall? Does the backbox need moving or will the screws just reach through to hold the front on?

Thanks all

Eric

[Mister Gonzo]

EriX, as you mentioned, one way to cut the channel is to use an angle grinder to make the grooves either side of the channel. The chisel you're using gives too much clout which is why the brick cracked. It's a bit like using a sledgehammer to tap in a nail.

The best thing to use is an angle grinder to cut the edges, then either:

a) a biscuit cutter (it's a mini chisel which has a jagged edge rather than a straight one which helps to chip away without having to use so much force that the brick cracks - I had the same problem in my house as it's 80 years old and the bricks easily cracked)

b) an SDS drill with a small chisel attachment - about an inch across

c) if you have the cash, use the sparky. Let him deal with the grief of cutting the channel (my prefered option!)

If you need to buy an angle grinder as well, you might want to ask the sparky how much he'd charge (cash in hand always works well ;-) )

[Mister Gonzo]

Putting up plasterboard by dotting it and dabbing it is one way to go but does have some major downsides. I'd considered doing it throughout my house to save time and money. The main problem occurs if you want to hang anything on that wall. By using dot and dab, you're creating a small cavity behind the plaserboard anywhere you've not used adhesive. If you come to hang anything - shelves, radiators, etc, you'll find you've only gone into the plasterboard and not the plaster.

Something to bear in mind.

[EriX]

hmmm I'm sure I posted a reply

It was along the lines of the wall will have my screen and front 3 speakers. If I use something like the mark grant supplied rigifix fastners I should be able to suitably anchor the things to wall through a D&D wall. There wont be much more room to hang stuff on after all that.

The only problem is that I dont know how to deal with the sockets and light switches on the wall. Do the back boxes need moving forward or can I just move the faceplates forward?

Can I use the 9.5mm plasterboard as it comes in smaller sizes that I can fit in the car. The larger 12.5mm only comes in 8'x4' sheets from what I've found. Also I think that 9.5mm + bonding + skim would provide the required depth to hide the conduit.

Thanks

Eric

[Mister Gonzo]

If you decide to D&D plasterboard, you'll need to move the sockets forward.

The easiest way to do this (I assume it will work for you although I've only tried it in plasterboard that is hung on a stud frame) is to use dry lining back boxes. These just clip around the plasterboard. I'd check they are suitable for 9mm plasterboard - I've only used them on 12.5mm but I'm sure they'll be fine.
The only slight downside to using dry lining backboxes is that I'm told if you repeatedly plug and unplug appliances into the sockets it can weaken the plasterboard around the socket and will eventually crumble over time. Just something my father-in-law told me - he's very handy when it comes to DIY so it's probably true. My dad on the other hand didn't think it would be a problem.

The other option is to use normal metal back boxes and build up space behind using browning. This will bring it up to the level of the skim coat.

The other option is to get your sparky to channel it for you. You won't need to move any of the sockets and won't have any issues sinking rawl plugs into the brick work (personally what I would do).

[davehk]

Originally Posted by oldnewbie

I wouldn't be banging lumps out of 100 year old brickwork, Why not just dot and dab plaster board on the whole wall and then just use a Stanley knife where you need to have the cable run, then just get the wall finished by a plasterer Thats what I would do anyway.

If you are going to dot & dab then run the cables first and D&D over them and just cut out for dryline boxes where needed. Then get the board skimmed over.

[kumack]

I think the extra hassle of dot dabbing the whole thing is a bit excessive if the current wall is in good condition. If its bad then by all means lash up a new wall..

For me i would just channel out more using an sds hammer action bit, you could rent one for a few quid and channel out the brick properly, its something you can do without getting a plasterer in and in the case of dot dab you loose a few inches in room size and I'm not sure if or how it would affect room acoustics.

Channel the brick get some bonding compound, just like gritty plaster and leave about 3 mm back from finish level and get a tub of finish filler, wait to dry and sand a couple of times.. Voila, all done by you for half the price if not less.

Sanding is the key !

[EriX]

Thanks all

I'm still weighing up the options. I was planning on having that wall reskimmed as it isn't the best currently and I need the plasterer in anyway to do a chunk of wall and ceiling at the back of the room.

I presume if I was to d&d and use dry line boxes that I'd still need to line them up with the existing metal backboxes (which I'd remove I'm guessing) because the wall wont be fall enough forward to allow enough clearance otherwise for the dry line box?

The choices are :

- d&d the wall and then get it skimmed which I was going to anyway
- hire suitable powertool (sds drill and chisel) and deepen the channel myself, though I am concerned about bricks crumbling and taking big chunks out.
- employ the sparky next door to complete the chase as he would likely have suitable tools and training.

I need to have a chat with the gf as it is her house and see what conclusions we come to.

Thank you for your help and I'll update you with my progress
Eric

[oldnewbie]

Really the best option is to fix 2x1 battens on the wall at 18inch center's then you can put the spacers needed for sockets etc, and put the cross members wherever you want to support anything you want to hang on the wall, and also pre wire anything that you want and just put the plaster board over the top, It sounds complicated but as I am a time served joiner I can tell you it is really easy to do The dot and dab I mentioned earlier was a good solution but the proper way to do it is like this I have had to do this in two rooms for a friend some years ago and the first one was easy because it had a good depth of plaster and was easily chased out, however the second room was like yours as in there was not enough depth of plaster and so I did it the way I described above.

[EriX]

interesting, that was my first thought a while ago. Mainly to avoid chasing the existing walls at all and also to bring the tv to more of a flush fitting. I disgarded the idea in the end because of the point of moving the sockets forward. How do you cope if the cables to the socket don't reach the faceplate in the new position? Is it a case of attaching a very short extension with some screw terminals?

Thanks

Eric

[oldnewbie]

The cables only have to reach about 1 1/2inch more so that wasn't a problem because they were long enough, All I did was put a small frame round the back box and just used longer screws for the faceplate, But if the cable wasn't long enough I would never join the cables, All I would do is remove the back box and move it up or down a little therefor giving you more cable length This can obviously be worked out before putting up the stoothing.

[EriX]

quick update.

Think I've sorted the chasing depth issue. I've found a shallower trunking that will go beneath the surface all the wall down the wall so I'm going to go with that option rather than chasing brick or putting another layer of plaster on the wall.

I made myself a cardboard TV the other day that is the size of a 50pz80 and you can see that in one of the pics. The other picture is what arrived via the parcel man today 3x M&K K5 speakers for the front 3 to go along with the two K4Ts I got in the classifieds.

The next thing is to decide where to mount the speakers. I'd initially thought about putting towards the top of screen abouit 30cm away and the centre above. The issue that brings is the RHS one would require a channel running pretty much on top of an existing lighting cable already in the plaster. The other option is to mount all three lower, just below the bottom of the screen and bring the left and right in a bit to just outside the edges of the screen. This would allow me to miss the cables already in the wall. It does however mean I need to figure out how to mount the bracket for the centre as the channel runs directly up the centre line of the TV now. Probably looking at something like the b-tech BT5 speaker mounts.

Any suggestions on any of the above are of course always welcome and thank you for all the people who have helped so far.

Eric

[oldnewbie]

Glad you got it sorted, Just out of interest is that handrail or whatever it is stopping there

[EriX]

Oldnewbie: No the banister is going once the work is further on. If you have a look at the first post it includes a couple of google sketchups, before and after. I am planning on building some sort of floor door/trap door so I don't have to sit looking down the hole and also not fall down it

If it was left there it'd obviously be a big eye sore when watching tv!

[oldnewbie]

Yes just had a look at the sketches If it all goes to plan, Should look really cool