[IWC Dopplel]

Firstly apologies for the pictures, iphone with no light (broke my pocket camera )

I have yet to assemble. The plan is to have the brackets fitted 10mm from outside the screen frame and 5mm proud (coming into the room) to allow clearance to the frame and screen. I have yet to cover with sticky backed velour, this has been fabricated from 3mm alloy plate. 3.25m in total

Fitting will simply be lifting up and placing over the bracket, one side at a time if you are stuck alone (put some thread on one side then fix the other and tighten both sides) They are light (easy to pick both up and move around) they will be mounted in place unless I watch a 1.85:1 movie then they will simply be removed and placed behind the speakers

I hope you can see the design. They are the same profile as the screen and fitting the brackets 5mm out will put 5mm clearance all round. So nothing touching when fitted. I have held up one side (At an angle) to show the bars against the frame for scale as one hand was holding and one hand was with ipod I wasn't perpared to risk trying to hold it true for the picture (the other end was on the floor !)

I will try and fit this week and take some better pictures !

[Johnny.G]

Looks very interesting m'boy and interested on how it turns out ...... did the metal work come back to you straight and true or have you had to tweek it.

john

[IWC Dopplel]

Originally Posted by Johnny.G

Looks very interesting m'boy and interested on how it turns out ...... did the metal work come back to you straight and true or have you had to tweek it.

john

It looks very good to me all true. It is quite rigid, thankfully. As I am over 3m it is actually welded in the middle. Less than 3m and it would be easier to make for the guys

All round a good job

[Pecker]

Great stuff.

I know if you want to buy something that does this it'll cost you a small fortune.

DIYing must give you a lot of satisfaction.

Steve W

[Deus_ex]

Hi, I've been looking into diy masking and found a neat and cheap way to do it if you have a fixed screen. Its on the US forum AVS Forum - View Single Post - I Made DIY 2.40:1 Masking for My 1.85:1 Screen

Have a look, it maybe a easier to diy solution, although I don't know if its practical if your screen is over 9ft wide.

Whats your next project IWC Dopplel, a diy anamorphic lens ?

[IWC Dopplel]

Okay here we are at step 2 :

Spacing blocks made for the brackets, covered in sticky backed velour and the brackets (yet to be covered mounted) all lined up and fitted>

To do's

1. Clean the alloy bars with spirit
2. Fix sticky backed velour to them
3. Adjust the brackets so there is a little more clearance (1mm or less in a couple of places)
4. Cover the top metal brackets in velour

By the way I fitted and assembled the bars home alone, I think this would work even better on a smaller screen. As although very workable playing with 3.25m beams just makes me a little nervous in case I drop one !

Mental note, alter screen aspect ratio before wine or beer

BTW the apparent curve on the 2nd must be my Ricoh lense !

[IWC Dopplel]

Originally Posted by Deus_ex

Hi, I've been looking into diy masking and found a neat and cheap way to do it if you have a fixed screen. Its on the US forum AVS Forum - View Single Post - I Made DIY 2.40:1 Masking for My 1.85:1 Screen

Have a look, it maybe a easier to diy solution, although I don't know if its practical if your screen is over 9ft wide.

Whats your next project IWC Dopplel, a diy anamorphic lens ?

A nice idea if they are rigid enough, much easier and safer

[IWC Dopplel]

Nearly there

[Baggy]

Looking good now that you've got them covered.

[IWC Dopplel]

All done, perf.....

It all fits within 3mm of the screen without touching, difficult to see as the velour is so good !

[Johnny.G]

That really does look well, quite a professional look to it .

Your obviously tallented .... looking at the construction of the sides of the masks and the small space you have at the sides of the screen do you not fancy having a go at further modifications or some sort of mechanical additions , cords / pulleys etc to make it a permanent adjustable masking system ... i bet you could

[IWC Dopplel]

Originally Posted by Johnny.G

That really does look well, quite a professional look to it .

Your obviously tallented .... looking at the construction of the sides of the masks and the small space you have at the sides of the screen do you not fancy having a go at further modifications or some sort of mechanical additions , cords / pulleys etc to make it a permanent adjustable masking system ... i bet you could

I'll put my thinking cap on

They will be permanently on until I watch a 1.85:1 film

[Manni01]

Originally Posted by IWC Dopplel

A nice idea if they are rigid enough, much easier and safer

That's the way I plan to do mine, except because my screen has to stand on the floor (height limitation), I intend to use lens shift (no need to zoom/refocus) to move the picture to the top of the screen and use only one mask of different size (for each letterboxed AR, 1.85, 2.35 and 2.40) at the bottom of the screen. I'm waiting to get the PJ setup to make sure I don't make any mistake in my calculations...

Well done IWC, it's a very elegant system and it looks great, even if I'm not sure I fully understand how it works from the pictures... I'm not sure I can visualise what it looks like in 1.78 ratio. Do you remove the masks, or are they lifted up/out on some kind of hinges? Sorry to be so thick...

[IWC Dopplel]

Originally Posted by Manni01

That's the way I plan to do mine, except because my screen has to stand on the floor (height limitation), I intend to use lens shift (no need to zoom/refocus) to move the picture to the top of the screen and use only one mask of different size (for each letterboxed AR, 1.85, 2.35 and 2.40) at the bottom of the screen. I'm waiting to get the PJ setup to make sure I don't make any mistake in my calculations...

Well done IWC, it's a very elegant system and it looks great, even if I'm not sure I fully understand how it works from the pictures... I'm not sure I can visualise what it looks like in 1.78 ratio. Do you remove the masks, or are they lifted up/out on some kind of hinges? Sorry to be so thick...

Manni, its very easy. You can see it fixed to permanent side brackets, this is how I will store the bars (in place) as well as watch a 2.35:1 film (most films as you know are 2.35) then when I watch a 1.85 I simply take them off and place on the floor behind the speakers in front of the screen

They are very rigid, and do an excellent job. It may be possible to designs a side support the allow them to be manually wound up/down so I never unbolt. On a 134" diagnonal it is only 205mm of masking. But boy it make a huge difference to the in room contrast on a 2.35:1 film

I may have insufficient clearance at the top to clear if they simply move up and down by some mechanism. I will put my thinkin cap on again

For the moment it's a manual process :

1. loosen one side (keep the nut on to stop it slipping off), unbolt the other side and take that end away from the stud and lower by hand to rest on the floor (easy as they are light).

2.Then undo the thread on the other side and remove to lower the whole bar to the floor.

3. Repeat for the other bar

[Manni01]

Originally Posted by IWC Dopplel

Manni, its very easy. You can see it fixed to permanent side brackets, this is how I will store the bars (in place) as well as watch a 2.35:1 film (most films as you know are 2.35) then when I watch a 1.85 I simply take them off and place on the floor behind the speakers in front of the screen

They are very rigid, and do an excellent job. It may be possible to designs a side support the allow them to be manually wound up/down so I never unbolt. On a 134" diagnonal it is only 205mm of masking. But boy it make a huge difference to the in room contrast on a 2.35:1 film

I may have insufficient clearance at the top to clear if they simply move up and down by some mechanism. I will put my thinkin cap on again

For the moment it's a manual process :

1. loosen one side (keep the nut on to stop it slipping off), unbolt the other side and take that end away from the stud and lower by hand to rest on the floor (easy as they are light).

2.Then undo the thread on the other side and remove to lower the whole bar to the floor.

3. Repeat for the other bar

Thanks, it makes sense now. It's the first picture which confused me, it looked like the bars where "open" or "up" as if on a hinge, but the AR still looked like 2.35, so I couldn't understand how it worked. Now I get it, bars on = 2.35, bars off = 1.78 (I assume, or is it a 1.85 screen natively?). I guess I'm surprised with the heavy duty aspect of the approch compared to the simpler/lighter way I intend to go, that's why I assumed it was a complex design (a la Masquerade) to move the bars in and out of the way manually or automatically. But it still looks very good

[IWC Dopplel]

Originally Posted by Manni01

Thanks, it makes sense now. It's the first picture which confused me, it looked like the bars where "open" or "up" as if on a hinge, but the AR still looked like 2.35, so I couldn't understand how it worked. Now I get it, bars on = 2.35, bars off = 1.78 (I assume, or is it a 1.85 screen natively?). I guess I'm surprised with the heavy duty aspect of the approch compared to the simpler/lighter way I intend to go, that's why I assumed it was a complex design (a la Masquerade) to move the bars in and out of the way manually or automatically. But it still looks very good

I will try and automate in some way, but really wanted to avoid any lack of rigidity, 3.25m is a long span. If you lift up a sheet of 18mm MDF or marine plywood you will see a bow over 8 foot. This weight 7kg per bar (three bags of sugar) is really not that bad and will hopefully stay true. Wood will bow over time, twist or move with the moisture in a room or the moisture provided by the adhesive to cover etc, etc.

I do like the idea of a foam or some sort of expanded material (like a dense polystyrene). This could be the way to go if you can find an engineering quality material then have it machine cut.

[Johnny.G]

When i was juggling ideas about in my head for lightweight , rigid & true cross bars for the masking i did look at a foam filled builders straight edge .... it has a bevelled edge to it similar to fixed frame screens and it looked very promising , just filed in the "possibles" folder at the mo.

Nice floor btw

john.

[IWC Dopplel]

Well, I watched a reference film with the 2.35 bars (A 2.40 film) so If I got up close I could see 10mm of unmasked black. However this really was not a issue whilst watching as all borders looked sharp and very black.

I can and probably will resolve this by elongating the holes on the bars to allow adjustment up and down before tightening up the nuts (Tightening incidentally is fine by hand, no spanner of socket required)

WOW the results are fantastic, a BIG upgrade over leaving the white screen as the black bars. A significant improvement in black level, image depth and contrast. I suspect the white orders ('black bars') act as a very unhelpful source of light reflection and reduce ANSI contrast.

This is a significant performance upgrade over no masking bars

Worth all the effort no question

[Johnny.G]

Most exellent will definitely be masking mine at some stage. I have an iron in the fire with Beamax at the moment but will be doing so
mething one way or the other ..... it's the icing on the cake isn't it.

[IWC Dopplel]

Originally Posted by Johnny.G

Most exellent will definitely be masking mine at some stage. I have an iron in the fire with Beamax at the moment but will be doing so
mething one way or the other ..... it's the icing on the cake isn't it.

Very nice set up, what size is your screen ?

[Johnny.G]

Thanks, viewing area is 266 x 150 16:9 AT microperf, Beamax A-Velvet.

[Jeff]

Hi IWC,

I'm thinking of making some stick on masking for my CIA screen, what black velvet material did you use?

My plan is some is have the masks cut to size, probably made out of thin perspex. Covered in black velvet with magnets glued to the back side. I should be able to simply clip them on to the frame and the magnets hold them in place. Very simple.

I like your screen by the way, very smart.

[IWC Dopplel]

Originally Posted by Jeff

Hi IWC,

I'm thinking of making some stick on masking for my CIA screen, what black velvet material did you use?

My plan is some is have the masks cut to size, probably made out of thin perspex. Covered in black velvet with magnets glued to the back side. I should be able to simply clip them on to the frame and the magnets hold them in place. Very simple.

I like your screen by the way, very smart.

Jeff, Hi

This is the sticky backed velour £40 for 450mm x 10m

Adhesives, Glue & Sticky Stuff,Fablon Sticky Back Plastic,Fablon Sticky Back Plastic Black Velour (450mm x 10m), Avenue Supplies, Plumbing, Heating and DIY Specialists located in London Ealing W13

It came first thing the following day when I ordered mine !

One thing I would say is perspex will be far too flexible. You will certainly have problems with keeping it close to the screen with out it bowing and touching the screen. This will then push the whole screen out and ruin focus etc.

I also suspect over even your screen distance you will have it bow enough to be visible over the length when in place. Dropping by even 2-3mm in the middle will annoy, trust me.

For a simpler solution you could use alloy rectagonal tubing as this will be cheap, light and rigid. Cover this then velcro at either side or provide another support

I am also thiniking about altering the fixed sides so I can move my peices from 2.40:1 to 1.78 (as the edge profile matches the Carada,if I was able to slide the units up and down they would slide out to full screen less probably 1-2mm. So it would potentially work very well)

I would seriously consider engineering foams as I am sure you can get a rigid machinable material that is a dense polystyrene and some mould manufacturer or prototype company would probably CNC machine a perfect fit to allow you to have neat masking going around the carada frame and keeping the edge close to the screen. That would be very light and velcro to support eithe side of the screen, you simply adjust your masking and press !

I am glad I went for alloy as they are very nice and substantial, and actually quite light. I am currently sketching something to allow adjustability

The alloy and fixings cost me just over £300 all in. So including the sticky backed velour and a few screws thats less than £350 all in.

If you would like me to introduce you to the fabricators, let me know.

Any more questions about my experiences, just shout

[Manni01]

Originally Posted by Jeff

Hi IWC,

I'm thinking of making some stick on masking for my CIA screen, what black velvet material did you use?

My plan is some is have the masks cut to size, probably made out of thin perspex. Covered in black velvet with magnets glued to the back side. I should be able to simply clip them on to the frame and the magnets hold them in place. Very simple.

I like your screen by the way, very smart.

Hi Jeff,

Not that I disagree with IWC's solution, but if I'm not satisfied with the black bars on the 750, I plan to go in a direction very similar to the one you intend to go, and I wouldn't dismiss the "light" option so quickly.

I am going to do something similar to what the starter of this thread I Made DIY 2.40:1 Masking for My 1.85:1 Screen - AVS Forum has done. Because my screen is too low due to height constraint in my room, I also plan to shift the picture up to the top of the screen when screening non 1.78 material, and have only one piece of masking per ratio (I think the opposite of you if I remember well, as you'd like to move your picture to the bottom of the screen).

If the material is light enough, you can definitely just "hang" your mask(s) beetween the sides of the screen, especially given the fact that your bars are smaller than on a 1.85 screen, which means you don't even need magnets or have to suffer a gap between the screen and the mask.

I'm tempted to try some of IWC's material, but it sounds like it's not as black as the "black hole" material used for the Carada screen. I've used for the rest of my batbin some black velvet which is quite inexpensive, and BLACKER than the black hole material form the Carada screen. Here is a link to it: Standard Plain Velvet. It's only £6.5 per meter, and the fabric is anything between 1.20m to 1.50m wide (depending on the stock they use). They deliver within a couple of days.

Regarding the material, I've saved a few very large sheets of white polystyren that protected a wooden wardrobe we got delivered, and I plan to use that, wrapped with black velvet. So total cost for me is around £15...

Again, not disagreeing with IWC's solution which is very elegant, but heavy duty (and quite expensive comparatively).

[IWC Dopplel]

Originally Posted by Manni01

Hi Jeff,

Not that I disagree with IWC's solution, but if I'm not satisfied with the black bars on the 750, I plan to go in a direction very similar to the one you intend to go, and I wouldn't dismiss the "light" option so quickly.

I am going to do something similar to what the starter of this thread I Made DIY 2.40:1 Masking for My 1.85:1 Screen - AVS Forum has done. Because my screen is too low due to height constraint in my room, I also plan to shift the picture up to the top of the screen when screening non 1.78 material, and have only one piece of masking per ratio (I think the opposite of you if I remember well, as you'd like to move your picture to the bottom of the screen).

If the material is light enough, you can definitely just "hang" your mask(s) beetween the sides of the screen, especially given the fact that your bars are smaller than on a 1.85 screen, which means you don't even need magnets or have to suffer a gap between the screen and the mask.

I'm tempted to try some of IWC's material, but it sounds like it's not as black as the "black hole" material used for the Carada screen. I've used for the rest of my batbin some black velvet which is quite inexpensive, and BLACKER than the black hole material form the Carada screen. Here is a link to it: Standard Plain Velvet. It's only £6.5 per meter, and the fabric is anything between 1.20m to 1.50m wide (depending on the stock they use). They deliver within a couple of days.

Regarding the material, I've saved a few very large sheets of white polystyren that protected a wooden wardrobe we got delivered, and I plan to use that, wrapped with black velvet. So total cost for me is around £15...

Again, not disagreeing with IWC's solution which is very elegant, but heavy duty (and quite expensive comparatively).

I look forward to seeing the results

How would you stick the velvet down, spray glue ?

[IWC Dopplel]

BTW the fablon sticky backed velour is very dark, the pictures do not do this justice. The Carada black hole is a smidge darker, but only if you are being very fussy. Sticky backed black felt is noticeably lighter than the Carada or velour for example.

I guess the material choice will be ease of fitment and neatness of the finished product. The only way in my room I can discern between the Carada material, black velvet on the flanking boards, and the sticky backed velour is by a bright torch or camera flash. The spot lights or daylight in the room is not bright enough to see any differences !

[rigman]

Could you not just use a piece of lightweight black cloth stretched across the top and bottom (and sides) and held in place with velcro?

Lovely room JohnnyG btw

[Manni01]

Originally Posted by IWC Dopplel

I look forward to seeing the results

How would you stick the velvet down, spray glue ?

IWC, have you had a look at the thread I linked to? Because the masks are so light, there is no need for glue or magnet. They are just slightly longer than a "perfect" fit, and friction alone holds them between the two sides of the screen. There would be no flex as long as the screen is not too big (yours probably would be, which is why your solution works for you in a very elegant way), but mine or Jeff's are much smaller screens. In my case, because I plan to use only one mask for the lower part of the screen, it would be even less of a problem because it will lie on the bottom side of the screen, and between the sides.

Anyway, you've proved your solution works on a big screen, and the thread I'm linking in my previous post shows that there is a cheaper, less heavy-duty solution for smaller screens.

I never intended to rain on your parade, just to make sure Jeff (and others) did not ditch the "light" option too quickly, as I'm convinced it can be viable in some circumstances.

Unlike you, I still need to prove that what I have in my head would work (although it has worked for others in what looks to me like a very satisfying way), but I'm waiting to get the 750 to see if I need masking (still hoping I may not).

[Manni01]

Originally Posted by IWC Dopplel

BTW the fablon sticky backed velour is very dark, the pictures do not do this justice. The Carada black hole is a smidge darker, but only if you are being very fussy. Sticky backed black felt is noticeably lighter than the Carada or velour for example.

I guess the material choice will be ease of fitment and neatness of the finished product. The only way in my room I can discern between the Carada material, black velvet on the flanking boards, and the sticky backed velour is by a bright torch or camera flash. The spot lights or daylight in the room is not bright enough to see any differences !

My doubt doesn't come from the pictures but from yourself reporting it wasn't as black, although very close. I do plan to buy some of your material to cover some small areas (my shiny glossy quad lites, for example, especially the centre speaker), and I'll check if it's black enough for the masks, as it does sound like a much more practical and easy way to apply black masking, especially on something I can't stapple or glue on (the light masks). It may also be better to "straighten" the rough edge, if I have to cut the boards myself. I would use the machined, perfect border of the mask for the side that delineates the screen area, and the less perfect end to go against the screen border, if that makes sense.

[Jeff]

Thanks IWC and Manni for your help, I'll try the light weight solution first. I want something I can easily put on/pull off as it suites me. I do have some perspex from another project and it is very ridged but is thicker and heavier than I intended for this use. I might order up a new sample to try out. The sticky back velour looks ideal. I'm not too bothered that it doesn't quite match the black hole material, you certainly shouldn't see the difference once the lights are out.