hi has anybody got any ideas on how to soundproof a ceiling the people upstairs are driving me mad cheers

[sbowler]

Its not going to be cheap. If you have high ceilings then you could try lowering it by a foot and insulating the void in between. Its the lower frequencies thats the problem and its very difficult to reduce them.

[john59]

Nip upstairs with a couple of the boys, why should you go to the expense of sound proofing when it's not your fault

well, the best place to start with a project like that is at the floor level.

the reason for this is (i'm guessing footstep noise is part of the issue?) that treating the ceiling only leaves many paths for noise to come downstairs and radiate via the walls. impact (footstep) noise is particularily troublesome with respect to flanking noise because its created right in the structure.

Much can still be accomplished, of course, if the floor can't be touched, but it can be a bit more challenging.

is floor treatment feasible in your situation?

has to be from ceiling cant touch upstairs

Originally Posted by anfieldfc

has to be from ceiling cant touch upstairs

OK.

When the floor can't be touched (though sometimes when the floor can't be touched, it can still be modified from below... ?), the challenge of controlling sound (especially foot-step noise) is increased because the sound can enter the structure and move around... and kind of get everywhere.

so sound can make it downstairs via the floor joists to the walls and radiate from the walls, etc. flanking noise.

The best place to start is to modify the ceiling. some options include removing existing drywall and add resilient mounts (clips, less preferably resilient metal channel) and new drywall. When the ceiling is open, add insulation to the cavities if it isn't already present. You can use damping materials as well.

You may find that you also have to improve the other surfaces of the room (the walls) to escape the flanking noise problem (upgrade the walls). While that isn't great news, i know, it is a fortunate situation where improving only a ceiling can really bring this type of problem under control. Flanking noise in this situation is routinely considerable.

good luck,

Brian

[Bacus]

Originally Posted by anfieldfc

has to be from ceiling cant touch upstairs

I had a problem with the sound from my system constantly waking up my little boy... In the end i took down the ceiling (messy job) then put in loft insolating material then fitted new plaster board and replastered !!! May not be the best way or an easy way, but it works !!!

[bluesilver]

does anyone know of a person who can either install or give thorough instruction on how to soundproof a new build room? Any prices on labour would be welcome.

cheers

[sunama]

I too am going through the same problem with my ceiling. I have just bought a new home, but i am finding that noise is travelling to and from the upstairs room too easily. Hence, i have decided to spend as much money as necessary (within reason) to reduce the amount of noise that travels to and from the room.

This solution is summarised in the diagram in the link below:
http://www.domesticsoundproofing.co....ng_rbars1.html

The materials in that diagram will go below the existing ceiling so there is no need to take down the existing ceiling. One advantage i have is that the room I'm in has very high ceilings. Even if i lost a foot, there would be plenty of headroom. Of course, if i follow the technique showed in the link above, i shouldnt lose more than 2-3 inches.

I'm also getting the house rewired, so i have decided to first get the place rewired (should be within the next 2 weeks). Then i will have the ceiling sound proofed.

A great way to soundproof further would be to carpet (using tiles) the ceiling, however, this will be my living room and not a dedicated home cinema room and i feel carpeting the ceiling would be taking it too far.

If anyone has any further ideas on how to further sound proof, then let me know.

hey again sunama, remember when planning a sound-isolation project to consider all the flanking possibilities, and things like seals and ductwork and doors... all the double studs and green glue and mass in the world won't help if you have (for example) a shoddy lightweight unsealed door to bleed noise like crazy.

[sunama]

Ok, a few months have passed and I have just finished sound proofing my bedroom ceiling (more for my own peace than anything else). I will be having a hifi system, as well as a 32" tv in this room. I wont be using at huge volumes. For loud volumes I will be using the system in my lounge (on which work has yet to start - I'm doing one room at a time).

At present the impact/footstep noise from the upstairs people was unbearable. So much so that every morning I was being woken up. Hence, I needed a strong solution to ensure that impact noise was minimised, as well as minimising the midrange noises (travelling upstairs) that my TV would make once that arrives. Below is a rough summary of what I did:

1. remove existing ceiling to expose bare joists.
2. fill the gaps between joists with rockwool, 100kg/cubic metre, 130mm thick
3. below the joists screw in 50mmx50mm battens, running at right angles to the joists.
4. fill the gap between the battens with rockwool, 140kg/cubic metre, 50mm thick
5. below these battens, screw in resilient bars
6. below the resilient bars, screw in a layer of 12.5mm knauff soundshield plasterboard
7. below that layer of plasterboard, screw in an identical layer of soundshield, except this time, put a layer of green glue, to create a sandwich.
8. skim and plaster the ceiling to finish.

All of the above, including labour, came to £1700.

Still to do:
paint ceiling
stick decorative ceiling rose to ceiling
add ceiling cornice
install chandelier

I predict that to do the above, I will be looking at around £800, for a grand total of £2500 to get the entire ceiling finished.

Ive taken LOADS of pics of the project, from start to finish. I will post them up once the ceiling has received its plaster skim.

Im planning to give the same treatment to my lounge, in which my home theatre system resides. My question is: when I do the lounge, should I alter the procedure in any way, as compared to what I did to the bedroom, or is what I did the bedroom the optimum method of soundproofing, considering my budget of around £2500?

[sunama]

Originally Posted by Brian Ravnaas

hey again sunama, remember when planning a sound-isolation project to consider all the flanking possibilities, and things like seals and ductwork and doors... all the double studs and green glue and mass in the world won't help if you have (for example) a shoddy lightweight unsealed door to bleed noise like crazy.

Oh and for what its worth, I have had fitted some very heavy fire doors throughout my property. I will be using a damping strip on the door frame to absolutely seal the door when it is in the closed position.

will these be any good for a suspended ceiling http://www.expamet.co.uk/bp/products/batsph.html

[sunama]

Those things are joist hangers. I presume they are used if you want to add a second ceiling below your existing ceiling, but you do not want the 2 ceilings to be in direct contact with one another. So, you use those things in conjuction with brand new timber joists. Once fully in place, you treat those joists as you would do you existing joists and simply attach your plasterboards onto the joists, then skim plaster over them.

I think using that technique you would better deal with impact noise, however the costs would be substantially higher. Also by digging into the wall (at the points where you are attach your joist hangers), I'm sure that you will be weakening the structure of the (load bearing) walls.

My budget is around £2000-£2500. I wonder if I could afford to use new joists and a second ceiling.

i think they just sit on top of the brick work the idea is to put new joist in between the old ones the joist hangers will give me a bigger cavity then i will build my stagered stud wall to the new joist anyway how did you get on with the green glue cheers

[sunama]

Green glue smelt a lot. And its been 3 days and it still isnt totally dry. Its very sticky, right now. When you first apply it, its quite liquidy. Application was very easy. I say this, as if I was the one who used it all. It wasnt. It was my workmen who were using it, but I watched the entire process from start to finish.

[paulthechippie]

Originally Posted by sunama

Ok, a few months have passed and I have just finished sound proofing my bedroom ceiling (more for my own peace than anything else). I will be having a hifi system, as well as a 32" tv in this room. I wont be using at huge volumes. For loud volumes I will be using the system in my lounge (on which work has yet to start - I'm doing one room at a time).

At present the impact/footstep noise from the upstairs people was unbearable. So much so that every morning I was being woken up. Hence, I needed a strong solution to ensure that impact noise was minimised, as well as minimising the midrange noises (travelling upstairs) that my TV would make once that arrives. Below is a rough summary of what I did:

1. remove existing ceiling to expose bare joists.
2. fill the gaps between joists with rockwool, 100kg/cubic metre, 130mm thick
3. below the joists screw in 50mmx50mm battens, running at right angles to the joists.
4. fill the gap between the battens with rockwool, 140kg/cubic metre, 50mm thick
5. below these battens, screw in resilient bars
6. below the resilient bars, screw in a layer of 12.5mm knauff soundshield plasterboard
7. below that layer of plasterboard, screw in an identical layer of soundshield, except this time, put a layer of green glue, to create a sandwich.
8. skim and plaster the ceiling to finish.

All of the above, including labour, came to £1700.

Still to do:
paint ceiling
stick decorative ceiling rose to ceiling
add ceiling cornice
install chandelier

I predict that to do the above, I will be looking at around £800, for a grand total of £2500 to get the entire ceiling finished.

Ive taken LOADS of pics of the project, from start to finish. I will post them up once the ceiling has received its plaster skim.

Im planning to give the same treatment to my lounge, in which my home theatre system resides. My question is: when I do the lounge, should I alter the procedure in any way, as compared to what I did to the bedroom, or is what I did the bedroom the optimum method of soundproofing, considering my budget of around £2500?

I have used the resilient bar method often and it is mostly very effective.
The only thing that i would be concerned about is your possible use of coving
bear in mind this must not couple the new ceiling rigidly to the walls and any holes made in the ceiling for lighting should either be avoided or be very carefully sealed.

[sunama]

There are 5 small holes in the ceiling. These are for the wires to come through for the lights. The holes are sealed off using acoustic mastic/sealant.

With regards to the coving, I was thinking of using an shock proof adhesive which is not so brittle and slightly flexible. I would use the shock proof adhesive to stick the cornice to the wall, while I will use the acoustic mastic (which also serves as an adhesive) to stick the cornice to the ceiling. This means the ceiling is still not in direct contact with the wall.

The plaster just left so in effect the ceilng itself is complete, now all I have to do is fit in the cornice/ceiling rose lighting and chandelier. There are 2 problems here:

1. the chandelier has a long lead time for 2 months. So, I wont be fitting the ceiling rose until then.
2. it transpires that after I removed the wallpaper in the room, the old plaster is in a poor state. This means that I now need to get all 4 walls re-rendered. Until the walls are rendered I cannot fit the cornice and being decorating.

My intention is to leave all this bedroom alone for a few months and get started on the lounge which is my main concern as I am still using my old 21" crt which barely works now. I need to get the lounge complete inorder to bring in the new Sony SXRD tv.

[paulthechippie]

You seem to have a sensible resolution to the coving problem.
Just a thought, you say the walls need rendering, do you mean they must have a sand/cement coating applied ? Or do you mean they need plastering?
Either way you could consider the resilient bar method on the walls mounted on battens this with a layer of rockwool will give both acoustic and thermal
benefits plus a potential space for running cables.

[sunama]

Originally Posted by paulthechippie

You seem to have a sensible resolution to the coving problem.
Just a thought, you say the walls need rendering, do you mean they must have a sand/cement coating applied ? Or do you mean they need plastering?

Sand and Cement first. Then a 3mm skim of plaster. Thats the plan anyway. The bedroom is on hold as its not my main priority but my lounge will probably need the same and is a priority. Ive been told that it will cost around £1500 to have all that done, per room.

Originally Posted by paulthechippie

Either way you could consider the resilient bar method on the walls mounted on battens this with a layer of rockwool will give both acoustic and thermal
benefits plus a potential space for running cables.

I was thinking exactly the same thing. As Im spending so much money on the rendering, I may as well have all 4 walls attached to battens/resilient bars/soundboard to create the room inside a room. Im thinking that the costs involved here though would be substantial. I would probably have 2 layers of soundboard with greenGlue in between.

soundboard £300.
green glue £350
rockwool £400
resilient bars £100
labour (rough guess) £1500
skim plaster walls £350
total: 2650

add that to the ceiling which will cost around £2k, means the entire room will cost around £5k to soundproof completely. Add another £2k for the tv, that leaves me with a bill of £7k which I feel is a lot of money.

So, in summary soundproofing the walls will cost me an extra £1500 or so, over having them rendered.

hi just reading your post you say your about to soundproof a room in a room. i would not use the resilent channel theirs to much chance of it not working, plus it sucks all the bass out of the room if your building the studs away from the wall and using green glue you will be fine try to build a suppended celing you can get some timber joist that sit on top of the brick work then you can lay your timber between you old joist then attach your wall to that . the ulitmate soundproofing the best you can do it just depends on how much room you can lose for your wall and i would try and build it yourself it will save you loads on labour just need help for plasterboarding the celing plus plasterboard only coats a fiver a sheet which is dead cheap have you has a look on the audio alloy site .

[Londondecca]

Another vote for using normal plasterboard, this is not to say the expensive stuff is rubbish but when you look at the extra gains versus the cost, it is not great value for money.

Looking at the data from the Green Glue Company resilient channels are effective at higher frequencies but poor at lower levels and with a HT useage, the lower frequiences are often a big problem. I would investigate sound clips or using wooden furring strips.

As for Rockwool, it might be worth considering using normal loft insulation, this stuff is very cheap and only slightly less effective. I will try and find the research papers which demonstrates this if you wish.

As for DIY, until last month I had never done any DIY but I did my research and planned the work carefully. A builder would have done the work quicker but I am not sure they would have done a better job. I was able to be fussy about everything eg ensuring all the studs were exactly in the right place (600mm oc).

EDIT. I found the reseach paper from NRC http://irc.nrc-cnrc.gc.ca/pubs/fulltext/ir693/ have a look at page 74 onwards.

[Londondecca]

This thread might help http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=452667

[sunama]

My problem is that I have seen just how heavy the plasterboards are. There is no way that an ordinary man can position the plasterboards correctly, on his own, unless they are chopped up in half, say. They are very difficult to manouvre, due to their weight and size. Also, as the home theatre is in my lounge I need the work to be done to a good standard. I'm afraid that if I do the work, it will look shoddy.

The plasterboard I have used is Knauff soundshield. It works out to around £8.50 per 8' x 4' sheet. I'm not really into making a saving of £3 per sheet here (for 30 sheets that £90). I would prefer to get the better quality product and pay the extra £90 given that the cost of the whole project could be £5000.

I should probably put an add in the local university campus, "2 people wanted to help soundproof a room. Will pay £50 per day." The basic construction could be done in about 5 days, with the plastering and finishing being left to the builders.

[sunama]

Originally Posted by Londondecca

This thread might help http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=452667

I read that thread last week. Obviously the whole soundproofing thing is about how far do you want to go. The ultimate would be to create a new ceiling, that does not come into direct contact with the old ceiling, however, I feel fitting the new timber will be tricky, as this will involve knocking out bricks in the wall, right along the room - I'm not happy doing this as this might weaken the structure of the building.

If I do the soundproofing, it will almost certainly involve screwing timber, upright to the existing walls, filling the cavity with rockwool (140kg/cubic meter density), then fixing resilient bars, parallel to the floor, then fixing plasterboard to the resilient bars.

I have heard that sound clips are better. But I cant find a UK supplier. The website is here:
http://www.pac-intl.com/rsic.htm
and I want the rsic-1.

Ive emailed the guy in charge of supplying to the uk (who is based in new zealand), but he has not replied to my email, which I sent 3 days ago. Does anyone know how in the UK, I can attain this sound clips?

[sunama]

Originally Posted by Londondecca

I would investigate sound clips or using wooden furring strips.

Normally furring strips are made of metal. They use this as they dont carry low frequencies well. Hence, metal is actually a good material to use as the furring strip.

Why do you suggest wood as the furring strip?

[Londondecca]

Originally Posted by sunama

I read that thread last week. Obviously the whole soundproofing thing is about how far do you want to go. The ultimate would be to create a new ceiling, that does not come into direct contact with the old ceiling, however, I feel fitting the new timber will be tricky, as this will involve knocking out bricks in the wall, right along the room - I'm not happy doing this as this might weaken the structure of the building.

If I do the soundproofing, it will almost certainly involve screwing timber, upright to the existing walls, filling the cavity with rockwool (140kg/cubic meter density), then fixing resilient bars, parallel to the floor, then fixing plasterboard to the resilient bars.

I have heard that sound clips are better. But I cant find a UK supplier. The website is here:
http://www.pac-intl.com/rsic.htm
and I want the rsic-1.

Ive emailed the guy in charge of supplying to the uk (who is based in new zealand), but he has not replied to my email, which I sent 3 days ago. Does anyone know how in the UK, I can attain this sound clips?

I found some information on UK sound clips RSIC clips and hat channel

I am not sure if you have seen this from the Green Glue pages. Due to space considerations I went for option 6 (plasterboard - green glue- plasterboard ceiling)

I also screwed studs onto the wall at 600mm gaps. It is not hard as long as you have the right tools and preferably someone to help, as long as your comfortable at using screws and plugs you should be fine. It took two of us just under one day to build a new wall.

I would seriously consider using Green Glue inbetween 2 sheets of plasterboard. It is relatively cheap, very very easy to use and its effectiveness is shown by independent studies.

I would also recommend looking at the building section on AVS Forums http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/forumdisplay.php?f=19

their is a company called www.sheffins.co.uk or just but it in google who do metal framed ceiling have a look on their and see what you can find but dont think you can buy the clips in this country try this place

http://www.soundstop.co.uk/solutions...solution_2.php
but take down the plasterboard first then attach the hangers or you will create a triple leaf affect

[Londondecca]

Originally Posted by sunama

Normally furring strips are made of metal. They use this as they dont carry low frequencies well. Hence, metal is actually a good material to use as the furring strip.

Why do you suggest wood as the furring strip?

I used wooden furring strips as they are dirt cheap and effective. I did not really consider metal strips as they are not readily available in our small town, so I have no idea on their effectiveness.

where did you get the furring strips from ans what size were they and how much if yiu dont mind me asking