[Baloo]

... its £3800!!!!!

Let me explain.

My dream of having a home cinema in our adjoining garage was coming to fruit as the Mrs had eventually agreed to it (on the condition that the room also housed some toy's for the little ones and she gets to call it a kids play room ). Anyway, I got a builder friend around to do a quote for the following :-

• Build false wall in front of garage door in case we want to turn it back to a garage
• Cut a door way from the kitchen into the garage
• Brick up an existing doorway to the garage and put a window in some of the hole it leaves
• Render the walls and ultimately plaster them
• Plaster board the ceiling and skim it

No electrical/wiring or plumbing work just the above.

Is it just me or does £3800 sound a little expensive. Maybe I'm just being a tight arse but I'm considering doing it myself (apart from the cutting of the door, way too scarey!).

Should I get another quote in? Is it going to be around the same value?

[stripe]

Sounds very expensive to me, I'm hoping to get the same done with electrics plumming and a window in for under £3K.

[Baloo]

The more I think about it the more I'm coming to the decision to do it myself. I'm pretty handy but its just finding the time. With a little one around my feet and the wife pregnant, time to do it could be hard. But if it saves me ££££'s its got to be worth it.

[Johnny Thunder]

You have all the help and advice you need, right here.............

[Baloo]

Originally Posted by Johnny Thunder

You have all the help and advice you need, right here.............

Thanks, I'm sure I'll be asking a million more questions as things progress.

Originally Posted by Baloo

... its £3800!!!!!

Let me explain.

My dream of having a home cinema in our adjoining garage was coming to fruit as the Mrs had eventually agreed to it (on the condition that the room also housed some toy's for the little ones and she gets to call it a kids play room ). Anyway, I got a builder friend around to do a quote for the following :-

• Build false wall in front of garage door in case we want to turn it back to a garage
• Cut a door way from the kitchen into the garage
• Brick up an existing doorway to the garage and put a window in some of the hole it leaves
• Render the walls and ultimately plaster them
• Plaster board the ceiling and skim it

No electrical/wiring or plumbing work just the above.

Is it just me or does £3800 sound a little expensive. Maybe I'm just being a tight arse but I'm considering doing it myself (apart from the cutting of the door, way too scarey!).

Should I get another quote in? Is it going to be around the same value?

Just wanted to talk on this thread too...

Builders prices are very variable. With the people I chose the build phase on mine - that's empty garage to room with plastered walls incl. electrics and a new larger dg window - was ~£5k.

The builder and plasterer were very good but the project management sucked causing it to drag out over a long time.

They also did the porch (up to a plasterboard/timber finish) and that came to £2,800 - £600 of that was just the roof!

But if you think that's bad I had numerous other quotes from £7k-9k for the garage and £14k-£18 for the garage with a brick built linkway.

Seeing what they did, it wasn't that difficult (apart from the floor screeding which could be done as timber joists) so if you feel confident go for it.

I agree cutting a doorway through an outer wall is far to scarey

Cheers,

Hatch

[garyc]

Baloo - go for it, you said you are handy around the house. Its not that hard, any tech advise and some one here has probably already done it. Even the door might be worth a shot, just get a door and frame then angle-grid an opening, lintel in then fit frame and job done, & u will feel very proud of that door. If not just a builder in for just that job might cost you about £350 fitted.

Gary

[Bristol Pete]

I would pay it for the professional work alone and the quality finish it wil hopefully produce.

Cap.

[Baloo]

I've decided to do all of it myself now apart from the cutting the doorway (the Mrs thinks I'll demolish the house if I do ). The first step if buying a shed to house all my garage junk. Wickes seem to be the most reasonable at £150 for a nice sized one so a call to them later on today should sort that out.

Just for reference, the garage is a single one measuring 2.5 meters by 5 meters so pretty standard. I get started on strenghtening the timbers this week by fitting 2x3 noggins in between the strutts. I'll take pictures this week aswell as I know I always like seeing other peoples conversions from the start. Oh, and the timeframe for this conversion is about 2 months, as I'm up against an impending new arrival.

[Baloo]

Looking more closely at the garage floor tonight I noticed what appears to be a damp proof membrane underneith. Would I be wise to put another layer on top of the concrete 'just in case' or would that be detrimental in some way.

Also, for insulation, would I need an air vent in the roof of my pitched garage or would some breathable insulation be all I need?

For wall insulation is this the sort of thing I'm looking for? Wall Insulation

And would that be ok for the roof or would I need something like this? Roof Insulation

[woody67]

Have you got/will you be getting Building Regulation approval? You will need it.

If the garage walls are single brick, then have you considered how the inside surface will stay dry?

The DPC is likely to be above the floor level too, so what is happening here?

You need proper through ventilation in the roof space, even if use that insulation from screwfix

You have to be carefull not to use inappropriate extra DPM to the floor or walls as this could lead to condensation forming and being trapped in the structure.

That quote was too high, and not one I would have expected from a friend. But it is inadvisable to work for friends, so perhaps he did not want the job? I would get two more quotes and talk knowledgably to the builders, so they should give a more realistic quote.

[Baloo]

Originally Posted by woody67

Have you got/will you be getting Building Regulation approval? You will need it.

I will need building reg's for this? I don't think anyone else has needed them or is this because of the new doorway?

Originally Posted by woody67

If the garage walls are single brick, then have you considered how the inside surface will stay dry?

From the recommendation of other members I was going to go for insulated stud walls with a small air gap to stop any damp from penetrating. This combined with a layer of foil-backed plasterboard just to be safe and a furthur layer of normal plasterboard to help with the sound proofing.

Originally Posted by woody67

The DPC is likely to be above the floor level too, so what is happening here?

I didn't see any sign of the damp proof in the brick work but I'll have to have another look.

Originally Posted by woody67

You need proper through ventilation in the roof space, even if use that insulation from screwfix

Ok so what about a couple of air bricks along the outside wall of the garage in the roof space. Would this be an ok idea?

Originally Posted by woody67

You have to be carefull not to use inappropriate extra DPM to the floor or walls as this could lead to condensation forming and being trapped in the structure.

Ok, though this may be the case.

Originally Posted by woody67

That quote was too high, and not one I would have expected from a friend. But it is inadvisable to work for friends, so perhaps he did not want the job? I would get two more quotes and talk knowledgably to the builders, so they should give a more realistic quote.

Yeah, I'm beginning to think that too. A friend of mine has just gotten pretty much the same thing done to his garage and the builder charged him £1700. I'd of used the same builder but obviously the trade pays too well as he's jetted off around the world for 3 months on holiday

[garyc]

Baloo,

Are you able to post some pics, just it gives a better idea of your construction questions.

Roof insulation - are u planning to have a sloping ceiling?

Insulation is all about reaching the desired U-value for right element ie. walls .35, ceilings .25 etc. most insulation manu. will have a technical department that can give you advise on their product and your situation. ie. single brick garage wall will require 110mm jablite quilt as example.

Whether you go for building regs approval or not its a good idea i would say to try and meet these targets if poss

Apologies if I just gone down the sucking eggs route for you!!

Gary

[stu mcc]

Personally I'd be delighted with a quote of £3800, at the moment the best I've had to convert a double garage is twice that figure +VAT (although that does include replacing the garage doors with brickwork/windows).Mabe I should just buy a 4 grand plasma and be happy with that or is rip off Britain alive and well in sunny Bedfordshire?

[Baloo]

Originally Posted by garyc

Baloo,

Are you able to post some pics, just it gives a better idea of your construction questions.

Roof insulation - are u planning to have a sloping ceiling?

Insulation is all about reaching the desired U-value for right element ie. walls .35, ceilings .25 etc. most insulation manu. will have a technical department that can give you advise on their product and your situation. ie. single brick garage wall will require 110mm jablite quilt as example.

Whether you go for building regs approval or not its a good idea i would say to try and meet these targets if poss

Apologies if I just gone down the sucking eggs route for you!!

Gary

I was waiting to get a shed to clear the garage out and post some pictures of it empty but I'll get some up as it will make my questions easier to understand.

As for the roof, I was going to insulate it between the raffters and then put a flat ceiling in and insulate that too. Condenstation would be a problem but would the air brick idea work?

Thanks for the insulation details. Its all a bit confusing at the moment as I've gone from expecting a builder to do it all to me trying to list everything that needs doing and purchase the materials in. I wish you could get a nice little checklist of things that need doing and what materials and where to get them from. It would make life a lot easier

[Hallsy]

Coming from somenone who is doing a house up themselves (with a lot of help from daddy!!) I would say that the quote of £3800 is ridiculous!! It really isn't that much work and materials are cheap enough too.
I will be doing the very same soon, I will apply for planning permission as I may well need it due to reducing parking at my property, however I am laying a large driveway soon - so hopefully it won't cause a problem.
Keep us informed with your progress, if you do go it alone it would be interesting to see how much money you saved.

[garyc]

Originally Posted by Baloo

As for the roof, I was going to insulate it between the raffters and then put a flat ceiling in and insulate that too. Condenstation would be a problem but would the air brick idea work?

If you have a traditional flat ceiling with timber rafters all you really need to do is lay 100mm roof insulation between the rafters then cross lay about 150-170mm roof quilt, cheap stuff from wicks would be fine (buy 3 for 2 rolls) £18 quid a roll = £36quid job done.

Ventilation normally done with soffit vents, but would have too see the roof pitch.

Gary

[woody67]

Originally Posted by Baloo

I will need building reg's for this? I don't think anyone else has needed them or is this because of the new doorway?

As you are converting the garage into a 'habitable room' - which requires compliance with a number of aspects, you will need building regs approval. Normally approval is achievable as its just down to technical detailing, but garage conversions normally fall foul of 'means of escape' and require a window or external door - not just one door into the house.

If this is a new(ish) property you should also check with planning that there is no condition on the property to prevent conversion of the garage.

Tile vents front and rear would allow through ventilation and be better than airbricks

Hi Baloo,

It's best to contact the council and ask if you need planning permission but the chances are they'll say it will be under permitted development.

You don't actually need Building regs unless you want to advertise it as a habital room when you sell it. Without building regs it's just a store room. If you are creating a brick or stud wall behind the garage doors (i.e. not replacing them with windows) then I wouldn't bother. In terms of resale having a room instead of a garage doesn't add much if any to the value of your house.

Having said that it's worth getting the insulation correct for your own comfort.

Gary's correct, loft airflow is usually handled by vents in the soffet board. just dont cover these with the loft insulation. The cavity between the inner and outer wall should be open to the loft so there wouldn't be a problem there either.

Cheers,

Hatch

[garyc]

Originally Posted by Baloo

I will need building reg's for this? I don't think anyone else has needed them or is this because of the new doorway?

Baloo,

I think you are probably right most people converting internal space within their property do not go to the expense of obtaining building regs approval (cost approx. 300quid ish) thats not including getting technical drawings produced. Really it only effects you when you come to sell the property without building regs it can only be classed as a bonus (store) room

Guess its upto you!

Gary

[Baloo]

Originally Posted by garyc

If you have a traditional flat ceiling with timber rafters all you really need to do is lay 100mm roof insulation between the rafters then cross lay about 150-170mm roof quilt, cheap stuff from wicks would be fine (buy 3 for 2 rolls) £18 quid a roll = £36quid job done.

Ventilation normally done with soffit vents, but would have too see the roof pitch.

Gary

Thanks guys, looks like a trip to wickes this week then, getting my shed from them aswell so I'll get it all delivered together. Shame wickes don't have a decent website or I'd do it all online.

[garyc]

I agree - web site not good!!

but if you going to pay a delivery charge for the shed, how about just including all the over materials you might need delivering, plasterboard, studs, flooring etc if you have space!!

good luck

Gary

Originally Posted by garyc

I agree - web site not good!!

but if you going to pay a delivery charge for the shed, how about just including all the over materials you might need delivering, plasterboard, studs, flooring etc if you have space!!

good luck

Gary

I think delivery is free if you spend over £200.

[Baloo]

Got another builder friend in last night to give me a quote for cutting the doorway through and bricking another doorway half up and adding a window to it. His answer ....

Doorway £100 tops (includes him suppling the lintel).
Window £50 labour + material costs.

I'm a happy man

We've pencilled it in for 3 weeks time so I'm going to be busy with the other jobs which now includes replacing a single radiator with a smaller double one where the new doorway is going to be. Good job I've booked some time off work and easters coming.

[garyc]

Good price u must be pleased with that quote

[Baloo]

Ok, for the people interested in price/materials heres the current Wickes list, please feel free to comment/add/remove from it. BTW Room is 2.4m x 5m x 2.4 (W/L/H) :-

Insulation
Building regs say 270mm must be used for roofs so 2.4m x 5m means

170mm roof insulation x 3 (get two get one free). £41.98.
100mm roof insulation x 3 (get two get one free). £41.98.

Walls area is (2.4m x 5m x 2 - length) + (2.4m x 2.4m x 2 - width) so 35.52m2
General purpose wall insulation x 4. £105.56.

Stud Work Timber
With provision for 600mm gaps between down timbers I work that out to be
44mm x 69mm x 36 + 3 for the horizontal £136.37.

Plasterboard
With the total wall area being (2.4m x 5m x 2 - length) + (2.4m x 2.4m x 2 - width) that is

2400mm x 1200mm vapourshield plasterboard x 12 + 2 just in case. £107.10.
2400mm x 1200mm tapered edge plasterboard (second skin) x 12 + 2 just in case. £70.42.

The ceiling works out to be 2400mm x 1200mm tapered edge plasterboard (second skin) x 6. £30.18.

Total £533.59

This should get me a room to the plasterboard stage. I know its a lot to read but have I missed anything, I am going over board on anything or I am skrimping too much on something. Please let me know as I haven't ordered this lot yet but I'll be doing a bulk order at the beginning of next week.

[garyc]

Baloo,

Is that CLS timber for your stud work?

CLS normal wickes size 38 x 63 x 2.4m (uniform width ideal for studwork)

Gary

[Baloo]

Originally Posted by garyc

Baloo,

Is that CLS timber for your stud work?

CLS normal wickes size 38 x 63 x 2.4m (uniform width ideal for studwork)

Gary

Ah bummer, I was looking at PSE. The studwork timber makes a lot of difference.

CLS Studwork Timber 28mm x 63mm x 2400m x 30. £50.70

Total £447.92.

[garyc]

whats the plan for the floor?

[Baloo]

With the floor already having a damp-proof membrane under the concrete and it looking pretty flat and uniform, I was just going to just fit some underlay and then put a carpet down, although the mrs wants a laminate as its easier to clean with the messy kids about.