Help PLEASE! In-wall appliances & speakers.

Xstyle · 05-10-2004, 5:16 PM

I have just moved in to my 1st house, and have an idea of how I want to create my Home Cinema...

The lounge area is adjacent to the integral garage, which from what I can tell is partioned by plasterboard.
On this wall (inside the lounge) I want to put up the Pioneer PDP-435XDE plasma, which weighs 30kg+, and then add some speakers ...was thinking wall mounted, and flushed in (not sure which ones yet).
I'm sure this will need strengthening?? How?

Below this, I want a cut out of the wall, and have glass shelves built in, for
sky+ box, DVD player, AV receiver ....
and then below that I want the sub ... but not on the floor... still on the shelf ... (maybe a smaller cut-out or narrowed down for the sub)
as I want the floor and bottom of the wall to have nothing on it, so no-one kicks it, and when I vacuum/clean up, they are not in the way

On the wall behind the sofa, which is normal brick, I want the 2 or 3 speakers... will these be ok IN the walls, or am I best to put them ON the walls? (no idea yet of what speakers!)

The room is a little L-shaped.
With the wider part of the room being the Lounge section, and narrower will be the Dining Area. The brick wall is a straight wall from front of house to rear of house... see the plan below:
___________________________
I.................Garage.................I
I...........................................I
I..Internal Door...........................I
_ _ _ _______________________I _ _ _
I.................Plasma...................Stairs I
I.................................................. .I
I.................................................. .I__________
I.................................................. ..................I
I..Corner Suite....................................Dining...........I
I..Sofa Along Here................................Table...........I
I___________________________________________I

<<<---------- Width 262" or 667cm ----------->>>

Please comment on the above, suggestions, idea's, do's and don'ts, best practice, people who can help me do it!

Cheers,
Sid

hornydragon · 05-10-2004, 5:26 PM

Put sub on floor and have a search for more ideas and info see the "get your plasmas out" thread..

AMc · 06-10-2004, 12:46 PM

I'd be surprised if the internal wall between the lounge and garage would be made of just plasterboard and studs. I'd have thought (but could be wrong) that building regulations would demand a blockwork wall due to the risks of poisoning from exhaust fumes and the potential fire risk?

If you walk along the wall tapping your knuckly does the tone change over the space of about a foot - hollow to solid indicating a wooden stud and hollow partition?

GaryG · 06-10-2004, 1:28 PM

Sid

Aren't you lucky! You have the ideal scenario for an IB subwoofer, considered by many to be the finest quality bass available.

If you've not already visited the 'Cult of the Infinetely Baffled' here's the link (check out the gallery pages for pictures of similar installations).

https://home.comcast.net/~infinitelybaffled/

For best integration the manifold outlet (or speaker if you are fixing directly into the wall) should be centrally located between the main speakers. You can mount it above floor height if you wish but don't mount it above ear height at the listening position.

Xstyle · 06-10-2004, 4:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AMc

I'd be surprised if the internal wall between the lounge and garage would be made of just plasterboard and studs. I'd have thought (but could be wrong) that building regulations would demand a blockwork wall due to the risks of poisoning from exhaust fumes and the potential fire risk?

If you walk along the wall tapping your knuckly does the tone change over the space of about a foot - hollow to solid indicating a wooden stud and hollow partition?

In the top corner of the wall ... a screw/nail went straight through and out the other end...

it is quite thin, and defo ain't brick!
House was built in late 1970's

Xstyle · 06-10-2004, 4:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GaryG

Sid

Aren't you lucky! You have the ideal scenario for an IB subwoofer, considered by many to be the finest quality bass available.

If you've not already visited the 'Cult of the Infinetely Baffled' here's the link (check out the gallery pages for pictures of similar installations).

https://home.comcast.net/~infinitelybaffled/

For best integration the manifold outlet (or speaker if you are fixing directly into the wall) should be centrally located between the main speakers. You can mount it above floor height if you wish but don't mount it above ear height at the listening position.

Interesting Gary .... ideas I like...
will view in more depth later!!!

moviemike · 06-10-2004, 10:22 PM

What do you mean by "was thinking wall mounted, and flushed in"?

Do you mean put them on the wall and then build a frame round them? If so wouldn't it look tidier to get in-wall speakers. If that's the case you can get your builder to make the walls as strong as they need to be. Just don't forget to insulate the hallow walls as much for sound insulation as to improve the acoustics.

One word of warning: this method will eat into your room - I've lost 1 foot in the width of my cellar due to in-wall speakers. As Hornydragon said, have a look at the thread "get your plasmas out for the lads" it has some great photos in it.

hornydragon · 06-10-2004, 10:30 PM

canton do somegreat on wall type speakers also consider Def Tech
see this http://www.canton.de/www/index.php4?...,30,ergof,2,en perfect for rears to save space etc: Also see these http://www.definitivetech.com/loudsp...os/mythos.html

07-10-2004, 1:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AMc

I'd be surprised if the internal wall between the lounge and garage would be made of just plasterboard and studs. I'd have thought (but could be wrong) that building regulations would demand a blockwork wall due to the risks of poisoning from exhaust fumes and the potential fire risk?

If you walk along the wall tapping your knuckly does the tone change over the space of about a foot - hollow to solid indicating a wooden stud and hollow partition?

The wall will probably be dry lined. Plasterboard stuck onto a concrete block wall with blobs of plaster and then skimmed. If this is the case you just need longer screws to get through the board and small gap and still give a good fix into the solid wall behind.

Hatcher

Xstyle · 22-11-2004, 2:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hornydragon

canton do somegreat on wall type speakers also consider Def Tech
see this http://www.canton.de/www/index.php4?...,30,ergof,2,en perfect for rears to save space etc: Also see these http://www.definitivetech.com/loudsp...os/mythos.html

I like the look of the Mythos Six & Seven ....
anybody here used these?? I really would like to see these in the flesh!!
(Need to see if they are too deep or not?)

Still pondering about the IB Cult...

Xstyle · 22-11-2004, 5:53 PM

I have come across these speakers:
http://www.artcoustic.com/products.htm

The Artcoustic Multi can be used as centre and left and right... and looks awesome!
but it is £1300!

The Artcoustic Diablo's can used as rears ... and are £1000 for the pair.

(Ouch!!! ...when you write it down you can see how much speakers alone are costing!)
Hmmmm...........

whats your thoughts?

Xstyle · 23-11-2004, 11:09 AM

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I was going to order EVERYTHING off the net, and get the best prices...
i.e.
435XDE, 868avi-s, ax5i-s, Artcoustic speakers etc etc...

or is it better to get everything from a local dealer and get them to install it... with peace of mind that they are around the corner if it all needs tweaking?

If I get all equipment off the net, then I would need to get somebody to install it...
I DO know someone who I work with... and would still get quotes from other people.

Dealers won't install items not bought from them...
But the problem to get it all off the dealer, then to get items at the same price as the net, I'd have to buy it all at the same time ...whereas on the net I can buy as and when I have the money.

Confused aint the word!!??

Please advise....

Xstyle · 25-11-2004, 11:20 AM

I think these will do the trick nicely!!

Sonance Merlot 422M:
http://www.hifibitz.co.uk/product.asp?id=3436

The smallest in-wall speakers I have seen.
The Pioneer 435XDE's Audio Output Power runs at 13watt + 13 watt (1 kHz, 10%, 8ohm) ...whatever that means?

AV In wall shelfs....
Am I best having these built, or get a standard one and fit that into the wall, with plasterboard cut out and joined to it at front?

Xstyle · 06-01-2005, 4:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xstyle

I have just moved in to my 1st house, and have an idea of how I want to create my Home Cinema...

The lounge area is adjacent to the integral garage, which from what I can tell is partioned by plasterboard.
On this wall (inside the lounge) I want to put up the Pioneer PDP-435XDE plasma, which weighs 30kg+, and then add some speakers ...was thinking wall mounted, and flushed in (not sure which ones yet).
I'm sure this will need strengthening?? How?

Below this, I want a cut out of the wall, and have glass shelves built in, for
sky+ box, DVD player, AV receiver ....
and then below that I want the sub ... but not on the floor... still on the shelf ... (maybe a smaller cut-out or narrowed down for the sub)
as I want the floor and bottom of the wall to have nothing on it, so no-one kicks it, and when I vacuum/clean up, they are not in the way

The room is a little L-shaped.
With the wider part of the room being the Lounge section, and narrower will be the Dining Area. The brick wall is a straight wall from front of house to rear of house... see the plan below:
___________________________
I.................Garage.................I
I...........................................I
I..Internal Door...........................I
_ _ _ _______________________I _ _ _
I.................Plasma...................Stairs I
I.................................................. .I
I.................................................. .I__________
I.................................................. ..................I
I..Corner Suite....................................Dining...........I
I..Sofa Along Here................................Table...........I
I___________________________________________I

<<<---------- Width 262" or 667cm ----------->>>

This is what I hope to emulate ... and better:
PICTURE HERE:
http://www.avforums.com/forums/attac...achmentid=8854

This will cost me £2000 to build by an AV company.
(The appliances and all cabling are all extra cost)
Hooking up the rear speakers, which will prob go in the ceiling, is also extra.

The fireplace would be the cabinet for all my gear, and further cabinet space to the left (to house my sub) and right (to house a few dvd's)

The install is going into the stud wall, and will intrude into my garage, from the lounge.

What do u think of the cost??

Cheers

Xstyle · 09-01-2005, 10:05 PM

Any feedback on the above post's price for the install, please??

My first Home Cinema will consist of:
- Pioneer PDP-435XDE plasma (the only thing I have bought so far!)
- Pioneer DV-868avi dvd player
- Pioneer AX5ai Amp/AV Receiver
- Artcoustic DF Multi Speaker, L,R,C
- Sonace RS1 x 2, rear in-ceiling speakers
- BK XLS200 Subwoofer

Proposed Install style:
http://www.avforums.com/forums/attac...achmentid=8854

Apollo · 09-01-2005, 10:33 PM

Thought I better move over here to save cluttering up the Pioneer DVD thread!

How about these speakers for in-wall mounting http://www.kef.com/products/ciseries/ciref2000.html they have excellent quality drive units and I'm sure would sound great if properly installed.
Have considered these myself for centre rear channel duties in my system.

Haven't a clue if £2000 is reasonable or not for the install, usually do most things myself or barter my services (own a computer business) for the services of other friends in the trades I require.

Great choice of plasma by the way, would love one of these myself. Bit soon to trade in a 503 series, I think the financial loss would hurt too much!

Xstyle · 09-01-2005, 10:48 PM

Those KEF's are well nice!
However ... decided against wall mounting MORE speakers.... after having a couple of AV specialists round my house to talk turkey, all I really need is the Artcoustic DF-Multi at the front, to run Left, Right and Centre (due to size of room) ...contrary to what all the sales people in the stores were saying!

Then the Sonance RS1's are going in my ceiling for the rears. (didn't fancy cutting into the walls!)

All this should look quite smooth, and aethestically pleasing (major WAF! hee hee hee)

Apollo · 09-01-2005, 11:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xstyle

Those KEF's are well nice!
However ... decided against wall mounting MORE speakers.... after having a couple of AV specialists round my house to talk turkey, all I really need is the Artcoustic DF-Multi at the front, to run Left, Right and Centre (due to size of room) ...contrary to what all the sales people in the stores were saying!

Then the Sonance RS1's are going in my ceiling for the rears. (didn't fancy cutting into the walls!)

All this should look quite smooth, and aethestically pleasing (major WAF! hee hee hee)

Understand what you mean by the WAF factor, the Artcoustic LCR speaker does look very neat under a plasma.
Would be serious fireworks in the house if I tried to move my "black coffins" out of their lair into any other room

Only thing I would mention is that from your plan the room does seem quite a reasonable width and I'd be a little concerned as to how wide a front soundstage it would create. I presume you've had a demo of them to satisfy yourself you like the sound?

Personally I usually prefer the fronts at least 7 feet apart to get that feeling of space and scale.

Xstyle · 09-01-2005, 11:40 PM

The pic I drew isn't obviously to scale.... the wall where the plasma is going is only 83" in width. SO I can't really go MUCH wider... and teh seating area is wider on opp end of room ... but is good.

Considering I've never had anything before ... I'm sure its an improvement!

Apollo · 10-01-2005, 12:05 AM

Ah I see!

With 7 feet width to play with and the plasma nearly 4 feet wide I can see where you are coming from.

In that case you look to have found a good solution to keep that sleek look you're looking for

I am sure you'll be going around with a big grin for weeks when it's up and running. Probably find quite a few "old friends" coming out the woodwork for a blast as well!!

Hope it comes together for you, please post pics when you are done.

Cheers

Xstyle · 10-01-2005, 11:15 AM

I will do...
Had Pounds TV from Enfield come round my house on Saturday to quote me on the install too ... should hopefully get a price this week.

kwijibo · 14-01-2005, 6:18 PM

any luck? are you going for it?

Xstyle · 14-01-2005, 6:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kwijibo

any luck? are you going for it?

Still waiting for their quote....
Bought the DV-868avi-s today... so I'm getting there!

Xstyle · 11-05-2005, 8:15 AM

Pounds TV ripped me off!! I put a deposit down for the DF Multi, but they sold it to some1 else and kept my deposit saying it was the charge for their site survey & quote! Ridiculous!! May take them to trading standards if I have the time...

Anyway,
FutureHome are now doing the install for me... commences next week!!!
I've bought all the kit.

Damn, I've been SO patient, haven't I!!?

Apollo · 11-05-2005, 9:08 AM

Wow, that is patience

Not sure how you stand with your deposit/"site survey" problem.
Did you get a receipt for the deposit?

If there is nothing on paper it's your word against theirs, although I would have thought there must be paperwork surely. Did you pay by credit card or cash? If it's a credit card you could probably dispute the charge with your card company.

Cheers

Xstyle · 11-05-2005, 9:51 AM

They gave me a quote for the install, saying the deposit paid "is less the proposal fee £117.50".

There quote was sky high, so after deliberation I said I'll take the DF Multi only and pay you the balance for it... they said its sold and that the deposit was for the quote not the speaker. This was NOT what they said on the phone, otherwise why would I have paid the money? Was paid by credit card in January'05.