New Build House - AV Solutions

saltdog

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Hi there,

I've been trawling through the threads for a while now picking up bits and pieces but nothing seems to be just exactly what I'm looking for. I should explain at this point that I'm a total novice here and any help I can get for any of my questions would be greatly appreciated.

My partner and I are in the very lovely process of getting a new house built for us. Fantastically, the builder is working so quickly that we're going to be moving in within a few months. Unfortunately this means that we really need to get moving on deciding what we're going to do with the AV equipment. Obviously we want it to be in before the walls are plastered. Got to make life as easy as possible.

The house we are building is a 2 storey, simple layout house. We have an upstairs living room and a downstairs family room. There are also 3 bedrooms upstairs which I would like included in the system somehow.

The equipment I have already is a Sony KDL-46W4000 LCD TV, Sony HT-SS100 home cinema receiver and speaker system, Sky+HD, Sony PS3, and Nintendo Wii. That takes care of the upstairs living room. I'm intending to get another TV for the downstairs family room with a feed from the Sky and TV's for each of the upstairs bedrooms. Don't know if I can have sky feeds for the bedrooms as I'm not intending to go for multi room. I'm also hoping to get a Sonos system to pipe in to various rooms.

That takes care of the background. Now I can move on to the questions. I'll try to remember everything I was planning but forgive me if I end up asking things in later posts. Here we go:

1. All my TV's are to be wall mounted and all cables are to be hidden. What is the easiest and best way to do this with all the equipment I have ear marked for the upstairs living room?
2. Can I feed the Sky to more than one extra room? What equipment would I need?
3. Is there any way to feed the Wii sensor bar through the wall? I can't find any effective wall plate solutions.
4. Where should I have Cat 6 connections? I have none in my current house and haven't noticed that I need them but I would like the new house future proofed.
5. Are wall or ceiling recessed speakers an effective solution for home cinema? I don't have a problem with upgrading speakers or indeed my receiver to improve everything but I love minimalism. I'd rather not have huge floor speakers.

As I said, I'm a complete novice. I did try and contact some professional installers for advice but never received any replies. Probably because I wasn't going to get them to do the install. I live in a very remote area and it just wouldn't be worth my while. Any help that anyone can offer would be very much appreciated. I'm sure I'll think of more questions as soon as I get some answers but for now I think that's enough to bore you all with.

Many thanks!!
 
Hi again, thought I would include a bit more information about the house. Here's how it should look when it's finished:
New House View.jpg

It's being built out of ICF (Insulated Concrete Forms) which is basically a load of polystyrene blocks which fit together like lego and are filled with reinforced concrete.
New House 16.jpg

This post is going to be a bit of a test because I'm not sure how good I'm going to be at adding images to the text. Fingers crossed it works.

Feel free to ask any questions about the build.
 
How do I get the images in my text to display at a better size within the body of my text like I've seen in other posts?
 
How do I get the images in my text to display at a better size within the body of my text like I've seen in other posts?

Hey dude, i wanna see pics for real so i will happily help.

best thing to do is use a photobucket account (its free) (www.photobucket.com) you can then easily upload ur photos there to folders and once uploaded you get the following options once your in your folder >>

example.png


You can see all of the pics you have uploaded :)

Mouse over the pic you want to get the above drop down LINK options > If you click the IMG link (it copies the link) you can then paste it in to your post ;) and this way if u decide to make another thread or blog or something u have the pics ready

cant help with tech questions on AV im still learning myself ;)
 
Thanks for the help austcy. I'll be giving that a try when I get home from work this evening. I have loads of pictures to share of the build so far. Fingers crossed I'm getting the concrete poured in the ground floor walls today. :thumbsup:
 
Hi Saltdog,

I am happy to help out if I can.

1. All my TV's are to be wall mounted and all cables are to be hidden. What is the easiest and best way to do this with all the equipment I have ear marked for the upstairs living room?

It really depends on what your builder is planning to do to plaster the wall. Will it be dot and dab plasterboard or more traditional wet plaster. This will effect how your hidden cables will be run and capped or chased it to the wall. Especially with your wall structure. You also need to think about where you want to position your hardware. Will it be in the main living or hidden in a plant / av type cupboard? Best bet is talk to your builder initially.

2. Can I feed the Sky to more than one extra room? What equipment would I need?

Simple answer is YES you can. This can be done in a couple of ways, the easiest way is to use the RF2 output and distribute the channel from the sky box as another TV Channels. The other way would be to distribute the HDMI / HD video signal. Noticably better, but needs more / other cables and hardware. I often do either of these for clients and as long as the advantages / issues are explained then they can make an objective decision.

3. Is there any way to feed the Wii sensor bar through the wall? I can't find any effective wall plate solutions.

Yes and No, What most people don't know is that the Wii Bar is only an emitter of IR. It is the nunchuck that communicates where is it to the Wii base unit. There are plenty of battery only IR emmitters, even a pair of candles can work (youtube it)

4. Where should I have Cat 6 connections? I have none in my current house and haven't noticed that I need them but I would like the new house future proofed.

That really is up to you and a designer / installer giving you advice. Typically, I would wire 2 or 3 CAT6's behind each TV and then a double point else where in the room.

5. Are wall or ceiling recessed speakers an effective solution for home cinema? I don't have a problem with upgrading speakers or indeed my receiver to improve everything but I love minimalism. I'd rather not have huge floor speakers.

Again, without seeing floor plans or room layouts it is hard to advise. However if it is not a dedicated room then ceiling speakers can be fine and maintain a discrete look.

As I said, I'm a complete novice. I did try and contact some professional installers for advice but never received any replies. Probably because I wasn't going to get them to do the install. I live in a very remote area and it just wouldn't be worth my while. Any help that anyone can offer would be very much appreciated. I'm sure I'll think of more questions as soon as I get some answers but for now I think that's enough to bore you all with.

Many thanks!!

I hope that helps.

V.

ps. just how remote are you?
 
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4. Where should I have Cat 6 connections? I have none in my current house and haven't noticed that I need them but I would like the new house future proofed.
5. Are wall or ceiling recessed speakers an effective solution for home cinema? I don't have a problem with upgrading speakers or indeed my receiver to improve everything but I love minimalism. I'd rather not have huge floor speakers.


Hi their Saltdog

I did exactly what you are doing now albeit about 4/5 years ago and yes it is a minefield

I def agree with Vex regarding cat6 cabelling, we ran 4 to each tv point in every room and indeed another couple for "if". to someone else in the room

Also budget depending, we used MK inwall speakers in the cinema room, these are the cleanest install and probably the best inwall speaker i`ve ever heard, but they aint cheap at around 5 grand for the front 3 and back 4 but you get what you pay for.

good luck as its gonna be fun

cheers Allan
 
Thank you for the replies so far. I'll answer them in a mo. First though, I'm going to try and upload some photos. I'm following your advice austcy so wish me luck.

Here's the plan of the ground floor. It's my intention to have a wall mounted TV in the family room against the wall backing on to the garage. Ideally, this would have an HD feed from the Sky HD but it all depends on cost and technical ability required for this.
GroundFloor.jpg


Now, the first floor plan. Here I plan to have another wall mounted TV with the Sky HD box, PS3, Surround Sound Receiver and Wii in a cabinet of some kind. Probably Next Opus Mango to match all our existing living room furniture. I have a 5.1 surround sound system and want all the speakers either wall mounted or recessed. My girlfriend came up with the idea of building recessed shelves to house the existing speakers. I would also like TVs in all the upstairs bedrooms, again with HD feeds if possible but RF feed if not.

FirstFloor.jpg


I'll post this just now to see if the pictures work. I copied them from PDF files. Once I've checked this though, I'll then post some photos of the build progress for fun.
 
Hey Vex,

Ta muchly for the reply. Some excellent information there.

It really depends on what your builder is planning to do to plaster the wall. Will it be dot and dab plasterboard or more traditional wet plaster. This will effect how your hidden cables will be run and capped or chased it to the wall. Especially with your wall structure. You also need to think about where you want to position your hardware. Will it be in the main living or hidden in a plant / av type cupboard? Best bet is talk to your builder initially.

The TVs will all be mounted on standard plasterboard partitions so running the cables shouldn't be a problem. The hardware will be below the tv in some kind of wooden unit probably. Ideally I would like wall plates for each of the feeds but will this harm the signal? For example, if I put in an HDMI wall socket behind the TV and one behind the wooden unit containing the plant, would I lose signal strength? I'm not a fan of bare cables protruding from walls.

Simple answer is YES you can. This can be done in a couple of ways, the easiest way is to use the RF2 output and distribute the channel from the sky box as another TV Channels. The other way would be to distribute the HDMI / HD video signal. Noticably better, but needs more / other cables and hardware. I often do either of these for clients and as long as the advantages / issues are explained then they can make an objective decision.

Is the HD video signal an expensive option? I'm working to a bit of a budget since I'm pumping most of my money in to the new build at the moment.

Yes and No, What most people don't know is that the Wii Bar is only an emitter of IR. It is the nunchuck that communicates where is it to the Wii base unit. There are plenty of battery only IR emmitters, even a pair of candles can work (youtube it)

I actually found this earlier in another thread. Sounds like an ideal solution. I was also thinking of putting in a component wall plate to feed the tv from the Wii. Again, will this have an effect on signal strength?

That really is up to you and a designer / installer giving you advice. Typically, I would wire 2 or 3 CAT6's behind each TV and then a double point else where in the room.

What would the CAT6's be for? What would they be connected to?

Again, without seeing floor plans or room layouts it is hard to advise. However if it is not a dedicated room then ceiling speakers can be fine and maintain a discrete look.

Still not sure about replacing anything just yet. Although my system is fairly cheap and low end, I find it ok for my needs. It would be nice to come up with a solution that would allow for easy upgrade in the future. It's my girlfriend who is looking for something a little less in your face and suggested recessed shelves for the existing speakers. I didn't mind the idea to be honest. My speakers have strange connectors in to the receiver. Would it be possible to strip the cables and connect banana plugs to wall plates or something similar?

ps. just how remote are you?

Eh, very unfortunately. I'm in the Orkney Islands. Not much in the way of specialist fitters up here I'm afraid.

Anyhoo, thanks again for your response Vex. I hope things are a little clearer now?

Cheers!
 
Hi Allan,

Thanks for your response.

Hi their Saltdog

I did exactly what you are doing now albeit about 4/5 years ago and yes it is a minefield

I def agree with Vex regarding cat6 cabelling, we ran 4 to each tv point in every room and indeed another couple for "if". to someone else in the room

Also budget depending, we used MK inwall speakers in the cinema room, these are the cleanest install and probably the best inwall speaker i`ve ever heard, but they aint cheap at around 5 grand for the front 3 and back 4 but you get what you pay for.

good luck as its gonna be fun

cheers Allan

Still not getting the whole CAT6 thing. Guess I'll need to look in to it some more. Do the CAT6 cables need to be connected to my wireless router or are they more standalone for other uses? Sorry for being a bit clueless but I'm totally new to the cableing thing. Only recently progressed to surround sound. I've been bitten by the bug now though. Just felt it was the perfect time to do it while I was building. Unfortunately it almost feels like I need to run before I can walk. No better way to learn though I suppose.

As far as the MK's go, I wish! I was thinking more of the KEF £100 jobs. Maybe some day but right now I can't warrant that much outlay while I'm building.

I'll go and post some build progress photos now. Thanx for the help. Seems I've come to the right place!

Cheers!
 
Here are some progress photos up to the point we're at now. Hope someone finds them interesting.

First, the trenches are dug for the founds.
NewHouse4.jpg


Next, founds are in. I was worried as it looked so small at this point.
NewHouse5.jpg


The ICF blocks on site.
NewHouse10.jpg


Putting the first 2 layers of blocks only took one morning. This ICF stuff is quick to build with.
NewHouse7.jpg


A good view of the hardcore and dust in for the floor. You can also see the first pour of reinforced concrete in the ICF block cavity.
NewHouse17.jpg


The insulation in on the floor.
NewHouse19.jpg


The underfloor heating going in.
NewHouse23.jpg


This is the manifold for the underfloor heating.
NewHouse24.jpg


Concrete floor in with walls starting to go up.
NewHouse30.jpg


Front door. The wooden frames are put in to stop the concrete pour falling out the holes.
NewHouse33.jpg


Back door.
NewHouse36.jpg


Garage door.
NewHouse38.jpg


That's most of the progress so far. Hoping to get a few more pictures on Thursday. All the ground floor walls are now up with the concrete poured. Really busy at work though so not managing to get up as often as I'd like. The amazing thing about all the above photos is that it amounts to just over two weeks work! Well pleased with the progress.

Cheers!
 
Good luck with the build, we thought about using your system, but went for SIPS in the end as we needed to make the most of the roof space (dorma bungalow)

Interesting to follow another thread of a new build :thumbsup: If you need any advice, I'm here to help....I suppose having a builder, he is responsible for sourcing everything you need....if not bargin hard...it is supprising what extra discount you can get when you haggle:D

For the cabling on our walls downstairs, we used 2 sheets of plasterboard as we couldn't sink them in the wall as they were load bearing. See my thread for pictures.

Good luck again:smashin:

Darren
 
can i ask, how is that ICF for hanging stuff on? presumably it will just get plasterboards and a skim? can it take weight?
 
Hi Darren, thanks for the support.

Good luck with the build, we thought about using your system, but went for SIPS in the end as we needed to make the most of the roof space (dorma bungalow)

SIPS was one of our options too. Well, the building regs will allow for nothing less since October last year if you're using a timber kit. The reason we went for the ICF is for the speed and solidity of the build. Our builder built one for himself last year and we were shocked at how quiet it was in near gale force winds (quite common where I live!!) so we were pretty much sold on the idea.

Interesting to follow another thread of a new build :thumbsup: If you need any advice, I'm here to help....I suppose having a builder, he is responsible for sourcing everything you need....if not bargin hard...it is supprising what extra discount you can get when you haggle:D

I'm being a bit lazy here. The builder will be either doing or subcontracting all the work for us and that includes sourcing all the materials. It's not that I'm not interested in helping out or getting my hands dirty, but that I want to move in as quickly as possible. As far as the placing of the AV equipment goes however, I'm intending to do the bulk of that myself with the builder's assistance. He's more than happy to help me run a few cables when the time comes.

For the cabling on our walls downstairs, we used 2 sheets of plasterboard as we couldn't sink them in the wall as they were load bearing. See my thread for pictures.

I did actually briefly look through your thread the other day but I'll go and look again to see your use of the double plasterboard.

Cheers again for your advice,

Kevin
 
Hi Mossym,

can i ask, how is that ICF for hanging stuff on? presumably it will just get plasterboards and a skim? can it take weight?

It all depends what you're looking to hang. Certainly, pretty much anything can be hung with pre planning in that you would need to fix it to the concrete core. It wouldn't be going anywhere if you did that. Our plan is to frame or strap the internal part of the ICF to allow the running of cables and such like inside the external walls. I guess during the strapping process you could certainly reinforce certain areas to ensure additional strength if need be.

As the whole inside of the house is going to be lined with plasterboard you can hang anything on it you would hang on plasterboard normally.

The internal partitions of the house are not ICF so normal rules apply to them.

I hope this answers your query?

Cheers,

Kevin
 
HI Saltdog.

The Cat6 behind the screens will allow you to run data and HD video to them either now or later if budgets do allow.

I would also plan for Cat6 data plates for access to the internet and shared files, printers etc as here in England people are fitting foil backed plasterboard and that is a nightmare for WiFi. So is underfloor heating if you have metal spreaders to help distribute the heat.

V.
 
Is that Stromness? Orkney is one of my favourite places.:)

I'd go with Vex's suggestion as a minimum, and run a single cat 6 to every room in addition. Also include the garden and garage. Cable is cheap, compared to trying to fit it afterwards. This will cover you for distributed music and video, data etc.

You'll need to find some space for a central node that all the cables run back to, thank about the size of a filing cabinet. This is where your sky box will be, plus all the accessories for your a/v distribution.
 
Thanks Vex and Macmacfeegle (Great Terry Pratchett user name by the way!),

Sounds as though Cat6 is the way forward indeed.

I'd go with Vex's suggestion as a minimum, and run a single cat 6 to every room in addition. Also include the garden and garage. Cable is cheap, compared to trying to fit it afterwards. This will cover you for distributed music and video, data etc.

You'll need to find some space for a central node that all the cables run back to, thank about the size of a filing cabinet. This is where your sky box will be, plus all the accessories for your a/v distribution.

I must admit I'm not too sure about this central node thing. I was intending to have my Sky box in the living room below the TV along with the PS3, Surround Sound Receiver and Wii. Will I need something extra to act as a hub for all the Cat6 cables? I just need to know where the cables run from each of the rooms. I think my builder may have networked his own house so I'm hoping he may know what he's doing with it. Looking like yet another homework assignment for me to try and find out more about though.

Is that Stromness? Orkney is one of my favourite places.:)

I'm in Kirkwall actually Macnacfeegle. Glad to hear you like Orkney. There are definitely worse places to live. Just a shame we don't have any decent AV installers around (none that I know of anyway).

Cheers!
 
Kirkwall is nice too, I have a few friends in Stromness and have been up many times for Shopping Week Shenanigans.:devil:

If you only want Sky HD in a couple of rooms things are pretty simple, just allow for the two cat6 to run between the rooms and then join them with a splitter/distributor, how long would the cable run be between the two tellys?.

Will you want surround sound in both telly rooms?

For all the data/audio stuff you will definitely want to route them back to one central spot, otherwise you have wee switches (looks like a modem/router) everywhere.

If you can wait a couple of days I might be able to sketch something up for you, so you can start to see how it all hangs together. If I post a sketch here, others may be able to chip in and advise on hardware choice etc.

As most of this is essentially network wiring, there may be an IT install company that could run your Cat6s and terminate them for you.
 
Kirkwall is nice too, I have a few friends in Stromness and have been up many times for Shopping Week Shenanigans.:devil:

You'll have to get yourself up this year too Nacmacfeegle. Got the Tall Ships race coming in the weekend before it. Should be quite the party! :clap:

If you only want Sky HD in a couple of rooms things are pretty simple, just allow for the two cat6 to run between the rooms and then join them with a splitter/distributor, how long would the cable run be between the two tellys?

I'd want the Sky HD in the upstairs living room, downstairs family/dining room and the upstairs bedrooms. I'm undecided on the downstairs bedroom. Depends how much hassle it is. It's only going to be the guest room anyway so I don't know if there will ever be a TV in it. I suppose might as well plan for the future though just in case. As far as the cable runs go, I guess it depends on the route they take but as far as straight lines between the TV's, I don't reckon they'd be any more than 10m apart.

Will you want surround sound in both telly rooms?

We'll only be having surround sound in the living room. that's where we'll be doing any movie watching.

For all the data/audio stuff you will definitely want to route them back to one central spot, otherwise you have wee switches (looks like a modem/router) everywhere.

What kind of equipment would I need for the central spot? I've been looking around online and seen a number of things which could be right but not sure yet.

If you can wait a couple of days I might be able to sketch something up for you, so you can start to see how it all hangs together. If I post a sketch here, others may be able to chip in and advise on hardware choice etc.

That would be completely awesome! That'd certainly give me a better idea on what I need to be looking at.

As most of this is essentially network wiring, there may be an IT install company that could run your Cat6s and terminate them for you.

I'll definitely ask around. There's bound to be someone who does it for local businesses indeed.

Thanks a lot for all you advice Nacmacfeegle. It's all very much appreciated.

Cheers!

Kevin
 
lol saltdog i'm surprised the ICF blocks stay on the ground long enough to be filled with concrete with the winds in Orkney!

With regards to sky in each room there are two ways of doing it.

1 - You can run the cabling to each room which will take the signal from the dish but you need to have a sky decoder box in each room.

2 - You have the Sky box(s) in one central place and distribute the picture to each room.

The first solution is cheaper and easier to install but you have the price of the Sky boxes/subscription. The second option is more expensive and complicated (this is where you need your cat6 cabling) but it is more flexible.

In my house I use a global loftbox which allows me to watch whats on the sky box in the living room in each room of the house. I have four satellite outputs from the dish, the 1st output goes directly into my loftbox and is distributed to each room in the house. The other 3 outputs go to the living room and two bedrooms respectively which allows me to have a Sky+ or HD box in each room as each box requires 2 satellite feeds. You can buy an 8 output LMB for the dish which would potentially allow you to have two satellite feeds in 7 rooms.
 
lol saltdog i'm surprised the ICF blocks stay on the ground long enough to be filled with concrete with the winds in Orkney!

Lol, I worried about the same thing myself but was assured by the builder that they'd be well supported. He's been using metal supports up till now and it seems to have worked so far. Fingers crossed it keeps working until all the concrete is in. On a plus note, an ICF block blowing around in the wind is unlikely to cause any damage to anything else!

In my house I use a global loftbox which allows me to watch whats on the sky box in the living room in each room of the house. I have four satellite outputs from the dish, the 1st output goes directly into my loftbox and is distributed to each room in the house. The other 3 outputs go to the living room and two bedrooms respectively which allows me to have a Sky+ or HD box in each room as each box requires 2 satellite feeds. You can buy an 8 output LMB for the dish which would potentially allow you to have two satellite feeds in 7 rooms.

I don't want to pay the extra for multi-room as it's only me and the girlfriend in the house most of the time and we normally watch the same stuff on tv. Would the loftbox allow an HD signal to be distributed throughout the house? Getting HD in the other rooms isn't a deal breaker but I just figure it would be a shame to have good HD tvs in all the rooms but only have the signal from my Sky HD coming through in SD.
 
I don't want to pay the extra for multi-room as it's only me and the girlfriend in the house most of the time and we normally watch the same stuff on tv. Would the loftbox allow an HD signal to be distributed throughout the house? Getting HD in the other rooms isn't a deal breaker but I just figure it would be a shame to have good HD tvs in all the rooms but only have the signal from my Sky HD coming through in SD.

loft box would be SD mono only if you take the rf out of the back of the sky box

if you want to distribute HD a cat5e/cat6 based system is probably your best bet
 
loft box would be SD mono only if you take the rf out of the back of the sky box

The reason I asked the question regarding the loft box was because Da_Rude_Baboon suggested that one of the feeds from his satellite dish went directly in to box to be fed around his house. The way I read it made me think that this didn't involve the RF out on the sky box at all. As the Sky HD signal is delivered via coax cable I wondered if the loft box could then split the signal various ways using coax to all the other rooms. Possibly just wishful thinking on my part though?

Anyhoo, thanks for your help Mossym. It does look as though Cat6 is the only way I'm going to achieve what I want but I'm just frustrated that I don't understand the process yet.

Basically, if someone could break down for me what would be required in a step by step basis to get an HD signal in a bedroom from a Sky HD box in my living room, that would be a massive help in me understanding this. For example:

Sky dish>coax cable>living room sky box>?????>?????>HD feed for bedroom TV.

Cheers!
 

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