[Wayfarer]

Hi, Just starting my first home cinema, in our second self-build house. I'm relaxed about the house building bit, but completely confused on the home cinema bit.

We'll have a small dedicated room (4.8m long x 3.88m wide x 2.4m high). The viewing wall is the 3.88m one and the back wall will be curved, with 4.8m at its greatest depth and 3.5m at its least. There will be seating for four, with an average viewing distance from screen of 3.8 metres.

Here's the thing - I don't know whether to go for projector or tv panel and I don't know how large the screen should be. The room is genuinely a cinema only, so will be used exclusively for movies. We want to feel immersed in the sound and the picture, but not overwhelmed and want the quality of image to be really good.

I promise to post photos as we progress. Groundwork started this week and we currently have a huge hole on a sloping site.

Any advice will be much appreciated.

Cheers

[RipMaster]

I think that room is easily big enough to justify a proper setup with PJ and screen. Since you are self building you also have the luxury of making any structural changes necessary to get the best out of the space before you get to far into the build

I take it that the curved back wall for the cinema room is an architectural coincidence rather than a deliberate (cinema) design element, but it sounds ideal for a curved scope screen!

In terms of screen size, I don't think there is a hard and fast rule, can you have a screen to big?

But seriously, deciding on the screen size can be a function of many aspects of the design: Where in the room can you place the PJ, what are the throw ratios and image sizes that you can achieve with your projector of choice etc. etc. This article might be a good place to start

You can approach it from many angles whether you decide what size you would like and then choose the kit and placement to make that happen, or if you have constraints such as budget, light control, physical placement within the room, then you can work from those selecting kit that will work within those constraints then pick a screen to go with that PJ.

If immersive sound is a big priority then you might also want to look at an AT (Audio Transparent) screen which will allow centre and maybe front speakers to be placed behind the screen., so make sure you look at the beast approach for room treatment as there might be stuff you can do during the 1st fix to improve things are reduced cost or improved effectiveness vs doing it as an afterthought or retrofit.

[Wayfarer]

Thanks for the quick input - especially as you're in the middle of your own project, which looks really great. I've printed off the article as it looks really helpful and a good bedtime read! I'll upload a picture of our hole (20 tonnnes out so far!!) and will have a go at Google Sketchup so people can see how things are going and what my thoughts are.

I always wanted to go the PJ route, but someone put me off and confused my thinking recently by saying that the images just weren't as good as those from top of the range panels - this threw me as I thought the opposite, but he works in AV and said quite strongly that he would go for a panel any day and I was just trying to recreate the "feeling" rather than the quality of cinema. Any thoughts on PJ Vs panel image quality (assuming I install a good quality fixed screen and spend around 4-6K on a PJ would be really useful.)

Many, many thanks

[inzaman]

Originally Posted by Wayfarer

I always wanted to go the PJ route, but someone put me off and confused my thinking recently by saying that the images just weren't as good as those from top of the range panels - this threw me as I thought the opposite, but he works in AV and said quite strongly that he would go for a panel any day and I was just trying to recreate the "feeling" rather than the quality of cinema. Any thoughts on PJ Vs panel image quality (assuming I install a good quality fixed screen and spend around 4-6K on a PJ would be really useful.)

Many, many thanks

With all due respect to the guy he is speaking rubbish, assuming a dedicated cinema room. With a dedicated cinema room i would (and have) go with a PJ any day of the week, there is nothing that will recreate the cinema feeling more, a panel will just not do it - period.

For your budget you will get an amazing image, in fact you could spend half that and still get an amazing image (the JVC Dila range as an example). Check out the PJ section of the forums and ask any specific PJ questions over there.

As for seating distance the rule of thumb is about 1.5 screen width away but it is a rule of thumb and depends how close you like the image to feel. You could possibly look at CIH as well with your room size.

[albriscoe]

Originally Posted by Wayfarer

I'll upload a picture of our hole (20 tonnnes out so far!!)

when you get to 700 tonnes let me know

I`ve erm! we have more or less just completed our first self build with a dedicated basement cinema and can vouch what Inzaman has said that your mate is talking rubbish.

Having a dedicated room its crying out for a good projector and a large screen, Their isn`t a panel of any sorts unless you get the 103" panny one that will come close to giving you the cinematic experience you will get with a pj.

Good luck with it all and please swamp us with loads of good photo`s

cheers Al

PS. full pics of my build and cinema room pics are to be found in my thread links below .

[MarkP80]

With all due respect to the guy he is speaking rubbish

- I'll third that!

[Wayfarer]

Great - This is the kind of encouragement i needed!

I really want to go the PJ route and its awful when a "professional" throws you off track. I've now got some really good pointers and I can investigate the PJ route properly.

Really appreciate all the advice - any more will be just as gladly received. I've got to go and see plumber no about a quote for underfloor heating.

Cheers

Simon

[albriscoe]

Ufch is a doddle mate

[Mister Gonzo]

Having just finished my renovation, I agree with what everyone else has said - a PJ is definitely the way to go.

My lounge/cinema room is roughly the same dimensions as yours, with seating in the same position. I went for a 105" PJ screen - any larger and I found that with scenes in films where there was a lot of movement it made you feel a bit dizzy and disorientated.

You certainly get that immersive feeling with a PJ screen!

[Wayfarer]

Originally Posted by albriscoe

Ufch is a doddle mate

But its all part of my cunning plan! Now I have the "quote" from the plumber I can "invest" the money I'll save by doing it myself - on the cinema. Trouble is I'm having to find lots of things to save money on that I'll now spend the next year doing!

Hopefully pic attached of the hole that is the sum total of this weeks work - so far it goes down about 20feet from road level. There'll be 3 storeys to the finished house, with the cinema in lowest level and built into the back of the bank bank.

Cheers

Simon

[RipMaster]

That's a good size site. Do you have any plans to show us?

[Wayfarer]

Quick update with a pic of the bigger hole (we have struck coal!) and some screen shots from the plans. The "Dry Store" is the Cinema.

We will be removing the ramp from the site and finishing the hole for the slab to go in by Friday of next week.

Definitely going for Projector option given the advice received (JVC) and a screen of around 105". I really like Bose speakers and was thinking of the acoustimass 15 system - any thoughts or other ideas much appreciated.

All the best

Simon

[KhalJimbo]

Originally Posted by Wayfarer

Quick update with a pic of the bigger hole (we have struck coal!) and some screen shots from the plans. The "Dry Store" is the Cinema.

We will be removing the ramp from the site and finishing the hole for the slab to go in by Friday of next week.

Definitely going for Projector option given the advice received (JVC) and a screen of around 105". I really like Bose speakers and was thinking of the acoustimass 15 system - any thoughts or other ideas much appreciated.

All the best

Simon

Mate if you are going for a dedicated cinema room like that I would personally invest in a seperate system and not something like an acoustimas.

Maybe some XTZ Speakers (if you have the money maybe a Kef Reference) SVS sub(s) and a Power amp and processor set up. But definately not a all in one like the acoustimas.

Take a look in the Speaker and Sub Woofer section, also the AV Power Amp and Processor section. If you're going the whole hog with the image you might as well get an audio system to match.

Awesome looking set up though cant wait to see the progress

[Wayfarer]

The trouble with building a whole house is it will be ages until I have some cinema "stuff" to show! Anyway; just for anyone who is interested - here are three photos to show how things are coming along.

The steelwork is necessary to reinforce the slab as the actual house will be 4 stories tall because of the slope of the site. There will be access from the garden into the real basement, but no access from inside, which is why I haven't been able to go for a massive home cinema down there - don't you love planners in National Parks!

The slab was poured last week and took 14 loads altogether, which had to be sulphur resistant because the building inspector didn't like my own private coal mine that we uncovered during the excavations.

The blockwork is the start of the basement, which will be 2.2 Mtrs tall.

I'm researching like mad at the moment on just about everything, so will have a list of proposed kit in the next update for your thoughts - I can't believe just how much advice and guidance is out there and this forum is full of useful stuff; so when I know what I'm doing I'll do my bit and come up with some answers to help others!

Cheers

Simon

[DrH]

A PJ is way more immersive than a panel any day.

So much for some pro advice?

I have just done converting my single garage to a home cinema / media room.

I have put in a panasonic AE3000 and a fixed screen. The picture is amazing. Only a 6ft screen but it is awesome.

A kuro panel in the lounge is used for everyday viewing but it cannot compare to the PJ for that cinematic experience.

But the audio adds equally to the whole experience so maybe spend less on the PJ and more on the audio. Some floorstanders and centre and rears all from the same manufacturer. A seperate sub, decent receiver and blu ray and it will knock your socks off.

I have had so many visitors since completing mine that have gone away with a big grin after a demo.


I guess you will be a bit away from the finished article. Like so many fantastic threads on here i look forward to your progress.

DrH

[Wayfarer]

I can't believe that 3 months have gone by. Been working like mad on lots of assignments away from home, to try and put some more money in the build budget; sort of working, although the extra money seems to be going everywhere except on my HC budget!

Anyway, I've attached a few photos to update on how things are going. The weather (as everyone knows) , has been horrendous and the site has been wet for most of Sep-Dec. We've been making good progress though and several thousand blocks later we have completed the structure for Basement, Lower Ground and Ground floors.

The top level of beams shown in the photos are the bedroom floor level, with the walls due to go up in Jan and roof on Feb-Mar. We've just excavated for the garage and completed the slab for that. There will be a 3.5Mtr void built up from this slab to take us to garage floor level.

The cinema room is shown best in the plan view of lower ground; you can see the curved wall of the room in the picture. The room has worked out at 4.60Mtrs into the back of the curve and 3.5Mts width). Not sure whether to project onto the flat wall (door front right of wall) or the curved wall, with door to our back and left. Ideas would be much appreciated.

The other rooms on the lower ground are all about family and leisure, with a big family room (L=shaped, with terrace) and then a guest bedroom, sauna, steam room, spa room and utility. Budgets will depend on what is left after the Ground and Bedroom floor levels are completed and will be done DIY.

The Ground Floor has worked out well and the terrace from the lounge adds a lot of space (its 3.6mts deep and runs across the back of the lounge and dinining room, where it narrows to 2Mtrs).

Now we are making progress I will do updates more regularly; I spent 60 out of the last 80 days away, so spent all my home time with the family and not the computer!

Best wishes for the New Year to everyone and best of luck with all the amazing projects that are on the forum.

Happy New Year
Simon

[Wayfarer]

Good grief, don't know where the time (or the money) is going.

The house is coming on really well and I now need to order my kit, so that I have all the wiring for speakers and projector buried at first fix.

Couple of pics attached, 1st fix elec and plumbing under way and alu windows due two weeks ago! Now due in on 29 March.

I'd really appreciate suggestions or comments on the following:

I am pretty sure that I am buying a panny 4000 projector as the reviews and comments seem to have been so good. Its at the top of what is left my secret budget - so I believe its the right one to pick. The distance from lens to screen will be about 4.1 mtrs and I am hoping that I can squeeze a 100" wide picture if I am viewing in 2.35:1. Any thoughts on that?

Also I am considering getting the Kef 3005se spkrs with a TXSR607 Onkyo amp, again near the top of what left of my budget. Given my room size I think these are the right choice, but I was wondering if there was a better speaker option around the same price as I don't need the "egg" design and a more boxy style may actually look and sound better in the room.

I'd really love any suggestions or feedback if anyone can help - thanks

Simon

[Wayfarer]

Finally managed to get a demo - which is tough in south west wales - and was really happy with the Kef 3005 until the guy put on the Kef 5005. Really liked these a lot - just seemed to have more detail and a more cinematic sound when handling speech and bangs in the movie scenes (band of Brothers, Prince Caspian and Avatar Trailer).

Suggestion from retailer, and as demod:

Kef 5005 and Sony STRDA2400
or
Kef 3005 and Sony STRDA2400

Price difference is £300. In the showroom the difference was clear - so we're thinking that it is worth the extra. And this is an old-fashioned retailer, so although they are a little more for the projector and sound setup than buying online they will:

Come and show our electrician all of the first fix locations, provide the cabling and then return, install and calibrate the entire setup FOR FREE!

How does this sound and does anyone with the 5005 have a view on whether they are worth the £300 extra?

[Wayfarer]

Lots done in a couple of weeks - even with all the rain.

Top floor 1st fix elec/plumbing done and plastered. Middle floor 1st fix done and started 1st fix in basement - although we have a bit of a minor water problem because there is a flat roof not yet complete at the front and the temporary one leaks - no major worries as thats the first job on Tuesday after the BH weekend, following which there will be no problems with water running down my new concrete stairs into the basement below!

Main windows are all being installed - and so far actually fit the holes.

Just ordered an Oak and Steel staircase from Poland having seen one on another local build. Excellent quality, brilliantly installed and LESS than the cost of a softwood staircase from a UK builders merchant or Jeldwen.

Bought the following kit for the cinema:

Panasonic PT4000 projector
Sony 2400 Receiver
Panasonic BluRay
Sky Plus HD box (when we move in)
Kef 3005 with the newer sub-woofer
Ixos HDMI and speaker cables (which we're now fitting - bad photo in dark)

Starting underfloor heating on top floor end of next week and all trades following each other down the house 1 floor at a time.

8 Weeks to go - fingers crossed.

Simon

[Dominic]

Simon

This looks a fantastic build, i love the idea of the dedicated room, good choice on the kit, keep the photo's coming.
Have you run some cat6 cable to the projector from the SONY AMP location, just in case you ever need to upgrade the HDMI cable, you can never have too many cables, you can run 1080p over cat6 with convertors at present, and no doubt when we all need 2160p on our PJ's we will need new cables...
run a handfull of cat6 and you should future proof yourslef for a little while at least, unless the cable run is easy enough to pull in the new ones when you need them.

Dom

[Wayfarer]

Hi Dom,

Thanks for the comments; much appreciated. Thats a really good point on the CAT6 - I think i will do as you say - we've run lots of BT ducting and conduit elsewhere in the house so we can feed extra cables and make changes over time - I need to do the same in the cinema really - I'll add it to the Tuesday jobs list!

Simon

[Wayfarer]

Usual story - time flies.

Here are a few pictures to update on progress. The cinema is scheduled for installation end of May (which probably means beginning of June). Everybody working on the house has done a great job so far and we will actually be moving in around then as well.

Lounge and Family room are now wired for sound and fully plastered, kitchen is going in and stairs due to arrive in around 3 weeks. Upstairs is fully plastered and ready for final elec, plumbing and then decorating.

Cinema is wired and being plastered now - as per pictures (very dark and damp - not much to look at yet really).

Managed to resist the temptation to collect all the cinema kit from the AV shop, but now Avatar is out on BluRay can't wait to get the family in the finished room and watching it.......

Cheers

[greenhammer]

Great build mate, thats a lovely looking house. Im very jealous and of your AV kit.

[welsht0m]

Great looking house you have there - well done

Have really enjoyed reading through and seeing your updates.

That cinema room with the kit you have gone for is going to be a treat - when can we all come round for the demo?!

Tom

[Wayfarer]

Hi Tom,

Can't wait for the demo myself! Until I found this forum I wasn't even considering a projector and had no idea about what was available - the advice has been really great; I'm just hoping I've made the right choices.

Cheers

Simon

[Linx08]

Congrats Simon, looks stunning really interesting design. The kit choice you've made will make you a very happy bunny. Plus the shop coming out and putting it all in for you FOC is a great service, who did you use?

Linx

[Wayfarer]

Hi Linx,

Thanks for the feedback - it's really appreciated.

Hope the Mods don't mind me mentioning the store as I have no commercial links with them. I went to Vaughans in haverfordwest. I know I could have got the items a bit cheaper elsewhere (not much actually having checked on line), but they have already been out twice to give advice on the wiring and speaker heights etc. The guy who will do the install is really competent and has a great reputation for making sure the customer is looked after.

Dead chuffed with them as they seem to believe in good old-fashioned customer service. I'll let you know how the end result shapes up!

Cheers

Simon

[Linx08]

Its nice to see that there are other companies out there who still believe in old fashion customer service, that's what I've based my company on, If I wouldn't install it in my own home, either the way its done or the equipment itself i won't do it/use it in a clients house. At the end of teh day if it wasn't for clients I couldn't pay my bills so they have to be nutured and looked after as much as possible.

i just read through the whole thread again and I'm so glad you posted on here, to think a 'Pro' advised you not to go for a Projector in your cinema room is scary, I hope I never receive his CV as it will go in the bin!!

I look forward to hearing how it all sounds when you're completed.


Love your house by the way very nice, I used to live in the RAF quarters in Haverfordwest many, many years ago now. Fond memories..


Linx

[Wayfarer]

Originally Posted by Linx08

I used to live in the RAF quarters in Haverfordwest many, many years ago now. Fond memories..


Linx

Its a small world - I used to be in the RAF!

[Wayfarer]

Now I'm starting to get excited - the cinema is plastered and the underfloor heating is down. Screed going in tomorrow and AV installation booked for 2 weeks - yes, TWO WEEKS (and a bit...)

Managed to get a bargain on solid oak doors for all the internal doors - cheaper than oak veneer thanks to a friendly guy in Jewson who helped us on our first self-build and knows his job really well (Thanks Joe).

Ceiling speakers going in the lounge and family rooms this week or next. kitchen in - waiting for silestone worktops to be cut....due in about another week.

The finish line is approaching and so is ZERO on the remaining budget......

Carpet going into cinema on 25th May, so I need to choose some paint - thinking about browns rather than grey, black or red colours: any suggestions would be really appreciated as I really don't know what to choose