Home Automation Needed for 1000 sq ft apartment

[Farris]

Hi Guys,

I am ready to remodel my apartment and am in need of some help regarding an automation system. I have tried to read up on the subject but am certainly not as knowledgable as some of you guys


Here are my Needs:

- Budget: Excluding Speakers, TVs... Just for Automation Hardware and Remotes/Panels $15k or £15k (This stuff costs the same in Dollars and in Pounds... go figure :-( )


Control:


Cinema/Living Room:
- TV
- Projector Screen
- Projector
- Fireplace
- Aircon/Heating
- Blinds
- Windows Media Center or something Similar for MP3s and Movies
- Dedicated PC
- Lighting

Bedroom:
- TV
- Amplifier
- Lights
- Aircon/Heating
- Blinds
- Windows Media Center or Something Similar for MP3s and Divx Movies
- PC
- Satellite Box
- Lighting

Bathroom:
- Music and LCD in Shower, both can be linked to another room if it saves cost
- Lighting

Kitchen:
- TV
- Satellite Box
- Windows Media Center or Something Similar for MP3s and Divx Movies
- Lighting


QUESTIONS

- I was considering using the Sasung Q1 as the remote control in each room, but other suggestions are appreciated. Is there something more sleek that has better functionality or looks?

- Since my budget is not that high I do not think I can afford a Crestron/AMX system. I was therefore thinking of something that was IP based on MAC or PC, such as Stardraw with the Autonomic server to integrate windows media center. Is there anything else on the market that is superior and costs about the same?

- Someone told me I coud have a PC based system with a Crestron Processor. I am not sure how this is better over say a full PC based system. Can I have windows media center with a crestron processor? What are the advantages disadvantges of this?

An explanation of what toher options I have would be much appreciated as this seems quite complicated

THANKS FOR ALL THE HELP GUYS!!!

[Isco 3]

Have a look here:

http://www.cinemaronline.com/dvdlobbypro.html

It can do all you need.

[mooperman]

not sure about help dude cos all that is way over my knowledge, but you might wanna knock your address off that PDF.... this is "the tinternet" after all...

[hornydragon]

If you can spec the A/C units the Heating controls and lighting (blinds class as lighting) then Netstreams Digilinx will do all of this for a lot less than AMX/Crestron its primarily an AV distribution system but has control drivers for HVAC,Lighting CCTV, entry etc which can then all be accessed via wall mounted touchscreens or Q1 or similar. usually the system will cost less than half of an AMX/Crestron system £15k is easy on for HW and could probably include some source kit and in room AMPs.

[raykelly]

15K ain't gonna get you far at all. It is possible to integrate all you have mentioned but that is either done by - integrators (they would not go near you for 15K) or a DIY approach normally done by guys who actually work in IT so can figure how to link all this stuff by seperate appropriate bits.

Ok I'm an IT bod but you need to split it up into infrastructure and entertainment. The infrastructure is lights,climate and mains controlled stuff and you need something reliable - not PC based. I use CBUS.

The entertainment side I would go for ceiling speakers and there are dozens of systems out there than can do the multi zone

Cabling. Work out what you want in each room and feed back to the central hub.

Break up what you want and the end cost actually depends upon how much you get into it yourself. There's a lot of money in the HA industry for those that do the integration. Good Luck

[Farris]

Originally Posted by raykelly

15K ain't gonna get you far at all. It is possible to integrate all you have mentioned but that is either done by - integrators (they would not go near you for 15K) or a DIY approach normally done by guys who actually work in IT so can figure how to link all this stuff by seperate appropriate bits.

Ok I'm an IT bod but you need to split it up into infrastructure and entertainment. The infrastructure is lights,climate and mains controlled stuff and you need something reliable - not PC based. I use CBUS.

The entertainment side I would go for ceiling speakers and there are dozens of systems out there than can do the multi zone

Cabling. Work out what you want in each room and feed back to the central hub.

Break up what you want and the end cost actually depends upon how much you get into it yourself. There's a lot of money in the HA industry for those that do the integration. Good Luck

What are thr pros and cons of CBUS?

I have never heard of this before.

[wywywywy]

C-Bus is, like, one of the most popular commercial & domestic automation product line ever...

Have a look here.
http://www.cbus-shop.com

Will fit a £15k bill I think if you don't employ an integrator.

Pros:
- Good range of modules
- Tried and tested (been around for years)
- Good support (lots of integrators and DIYers have experiences and knowledge in this)
- Integratable with other systems

Cons:
- Much less flashy than Creston/AMX
- Automation only, nothing to do with entertainment

Another system you can have a look at is Idratek. It is not as good looking as C-Bus, but is cheaper. You sound like an IT person, so I think you might like Idratek because there are a lot of things you can play with.

By the way, I think the Samsung Q1 is an over-kill (physically). As computers they are small, but as remotes, they are massive! Why not go with the norm and use a Pronto or a Harmony 1000 or similar... If you must use an UMPC, try OQO's models are they are smaller and have transflective screens.

But, the question is, what exactly are you "automating"?

And are the MCE in the kitchen/bedroom dedicated machines? Extenders? Or just shows whatever the living room machine is showing?

[TTT]

Originally Posted by wywywywy

Integratable with other systems

Be VERY careful. Cbus has limited integration options for any system that doesn't have a Clipsal-derived driver (Crestron do have this, I believe). You need to get your hands on their public release protocol and any documentation around a piece of software called c-gate.

Its a great lighting system if you don't want anything too complex and represents terrific value if you can work around the integration.

[TTT]

What if you ran the lounge with a receiver that gives a couple of extra zones? Yamaha, Denon and others can help with this. Use that for all of the switching. This will restrict you to three zones (unless you stretch to something like the Yamaha Z11, but I think you won't get that in the budget). You could then use your choice of RF handset in each room and they will operate independently of one another. This can be tricky to implement as the control logic can get fierce but something like RTI, URC or the new prontos, working with their RS232 basestations should do this in a fast and reliable manner. Why not tie the bathroom together with one of the other rooms? You could even use a suitable relay(s) to turn the bathroom on and off independently of the rest of its zone. Volume/source will not be independent, however

Many professional integrators will get scared of MCE. Whilst it can be a good fit for the IT-literate, (often younger) customer, it has some limitations and can be a pain to support (hardware vendor blames microsoft, blames integrator, blames customer for something that none of the above could have foreseen and the integrator ends up fixing it for free). The only proprietary system that offers video storage legally and conveniently is Kaleidescape and you'd have to make a bit of space for it in your budget!

The much-derided Lutron Grafik Eye could help you on the lighting side. You will only need a dozen or so circuits and some contact closures for blinds. The control interfacing for Lutron is just about the easiest and most flexible of any automation product.

You haven't made it clear so far whether you want something DIY or whether you want a turnkey integrator solution. If you want DIY, follow raykelly's advice- use PC for the AV and then proprietary for the services. You will have to put plenty of time into this though, and expect some frustration. If you want to use an integrator, call a few and take ten minutes of their time on the phone. They should be happy to spare this. Pick one who seems a good fit to you and run with them.

Your budget may or may not be realistic depending on what is included. If the blinds, light fittings, TVs, RF, heating, AC etc are excluded, you have a chance of putting together something pretty neat. If that's all included, I think you may need to look harder at which features you require.

[X3ELS]

I would have thought that you could make this happen very close to your budget with Crestron, i am a crestron installer and we do this sort of thing all the time.

If you are at the point of moving forward then get some installers to come and see you, i would be happy to have a chat if you want to move this forward.

[Joe Fernand]

Hello Farris

As others have pointed out and your research has highlighted there are 101 ways to take this forward.

As X3ELS points out even with one of the 'big two' Control System brands you ought to be there or there about with your indicated budget using a competent designer/installer/programmer.

If you want to go down the DIY route be prepared for a lot of head scratching and no small amount of wondering why you ever started the project as you go along.

There are alternatives to the 'big two' that my offer you a more scalable 'control' solution - see http://auroramultimedia.com/

Joe

PS TTT - have a look at Lewis Home Theatre - http://www.lewishometheater.co.uk/

[Farris]

Originally Posted by X3ELS

I would have thought that you could make this happen very close to your budget with Crestron, i am a crestron installer and we do this sort of thing all the time.

If you are at the point of moving forward then get some installers to come and see you, i would be happy to have a chat if you want to move this forward.

I think it would be useful to setup a time to speak. Please send me a pm with a contact number and when you will be at work.

Many Thanks

[Farris]

Originally Posted by Joe Fernand

Hello Farris

As others have pointed out and your research has highlighted there are 101 ways to take this forward.

As X3ELS points out even with one of the 'big two' Control System brands you ought to be there or there about with your indicated budget using a competent designer/installer/programmer.

If you want to go down the DIY route be prepared for a lot of head scratching and no small amount of wondering why you ever started the project as you go along.

There are alternatives to the 'big two' that my offer you a more scalable 'control' solution - see http://auroramultimedia.com/

Joe

PS TTT - have a look at Lewis Home Theatre - http://www.lewishometheater.co.uk/

How much cheaper is Aurora Multimedia vs crestron/amx? What are the disdvantages of this vs Crestron?

[ntslik]

This should be doable with Crestron Adanto, it may go slightly over your budget but I would think it would be close, we've done a number of Crestron Adanto systems that provide excellent control and features at reasonable pricing

It may also be worth considering dropping parts of the control like AC/heating as generally these just need setting to a temp and then very little input needed again, so you can save quite a few £££ here

[Joe Fernand]

Hello Farris

The Aurora kit is very scalable - the entry level Control hardware is sub 650.00 GBP; see http://www.auroramultimedia.com/?section=products&id=5

Joe