Control options for driveway lighting HELP

Jabamusic · 15-08-2008, 4:49 PM

Hi Folks,

I would be interested to hear how others have set up control of their external, driveway lighting; in particular their activation.
I would like to consider PIR but am concerned about them being set off by animals, trees etc. Also and probably more keen on them being set to self activate at pre-determined times ie nightfall and going off at say mid-night?
Has anybody done anythign more creative ie using remote control with gates etc?
Any ideas, thoughts and if so what will I need to consider wiring wise to do it beyond what is already there (I do realise you won't know what is already there !!!)
Jaba

hornydragon · 15-08-2008, 6:59 PM

Budget? With dimmers and a control device you can do some cool stuff like have lights on DIm at dusk but raise the level when gates open welcoming you home. They can come on at Dusk and go off at 12 but still come on when gates open then stay on for 5 min slowly dimming

Jabamusic · 15-08-2008, 11:31 PM

Very cool.........any more info/details of control devices?
Am very interested.

I do however plan to use LEDS's so dimming will be an issue.

hornydragon · 16-08-2008, 11:19 AM

Rako RAMB1 time clock with DMX driver (this allows control of Tri colour and 4 wire LEDS through the use of a 3rd party DMX interfaxe) The RAMB1 has a feature where you select he lonitude of your location and it works out sun rise and set based on location not on a timer. Connect the trigger out of the gates to the time clock to recall a specific lighting scene when the gates open etc

Jabamusic · 16-08-2008, 12:00 PM

Thanks "Hornydragon"

OK..well that has set the upper benchmark !!

It does however appear to be a bit more than I need and would seem to be able to control most the the rest of the house/street!

Any thoughts what would be the lower benchmark and I'll then work upwards!!

To add more detail on need... I would like as a basic procedure to simply activate the driveway lights at a pre-determined time, )say 5pm thru 11.00pm. However, that appears crude for obvious reasons. The (an) alternative seems to me to be to have some form of active activation i.e. PIR- but that raises the problems of animals, trees etc.

Another idea is to utilise the control commands on the gates (if this is possible?) At this point in time I haven't purchased gate activation/motors but have simply wired my Airphone door control/CCTV system out to the gates themselves in preparation.
Would it be possible to activate lights in the same process as opening the gates? However an override would be required when the gates are left open?

Am I asking for too much?

Any further ideas/suggestions.

Jaba

hornydragon · 16-08-2008, 3:14 PM

HI Jaba yes the RAMB1 will do alot of stuff your application only scratches the surface. There may well be a cheaper control optionI would look at combining a dusk sensor (turns ligths on when it gets dark (this is normal or outside lights) with a an external trigger input from gates controller. A more advanced gate controller with timer and dusk senosr could be an option. Have a look at FAAC operators, and BFT. WIthout going to a full lighting solution it may be tricky. Where abouts are you? and what are the overall details fo the project? IS it just drive lights and gates your installing or is that part of a larger project? Which access phone system have you wired for?

Jabamusic · 16-08-2008, 3:42 PM

Hi.

I already have an installed Airphone MK-2MCD and have run a two core out to the gates intending to operate the gate release via the inbuilt "door release" button that is on the Airphone handset. This will (hopefully) allow me to open the gates from inside the house when visitors arrive who won't have a plip (unlike family).
I have also runout 3 core 2.5 Hi Tuff for power for the gates with separate circuits for lighting which will be 6 LED wall mounted lamps + a couple of bollards.
That is the extent of this project; I do not intend to do anything clever with internal lighting, so it appears that what I should be looking for is a basic dusk to dawn controller OR install an (internal) timer controller at the meter board? OR BOTH/EITHER?
Seems a shame that there isn't an affordable method of doing this.

Do you agree?

Jaba

hornydragon · 16-08-2008, 4:04 PM

IF you were to operate the lights using a Relay then you could use:
a: ) timer to operate the relay
b: ) Photocell to operate the relay
c: ) Gate operation to operate the relay

If you get clever you could use the timer to operate the photocell and photocell the lights

Jabamusic · 16-08-2008, 6:08 PM

Looks like you're on our own with this one Horny!! Hope you don't mind taking me thru this!

This is beginning to sound interesting, I was wondering if you could elaborate more on the options?
I assume you are talking about a CdS cell?
If I was to consider the timer operating the photocell, that would work wouldn't it. Anything you know off the shelf?

Jaba

hornydragon · 16-08-2008, 7:13 PM

There may be a better way to do it but if you use a simple DIN rail timer to control the supply to the photocell (needs to be a photocell that with no feed will leave lights off) then when timer is active ie "on" photocell will control lights relative to day light level. but when timer shuts down the lights go off. ie you can have dusk till 11:00PM all year. I need to run some ideas on paper and do a few diagrams. I would if you were thinking of running an activation function as well look at using relays to operate the lights and the timer/photocell and gates to run the Relay. It will be like 2 way switching using relays instead of switches i think.

PS where roughly are you?

neilball · 18-08-2008, 9:46 AM

No need to time control the PIR or photocell directly, simply wire the switched live output (mains switching) of all of the control devices in series - all control devices have to then be on for the power to reach the lights. If any one of them is in the off state then the lights stay off. Makes combining timers, PIRs, Photocells etc quite straight forward and allows simply mix & match approach. However it does mean that the cabling may need re-configuring if PIRs or beam-break sensors are to be used as there needs to be cabling to & from the local sensors.

Jabamusic · 18-08-2008, 10:08 AM

Hi All
I do appreciate the thought you are putting into this - I thought it would be straightforward but clearly it isn't.

Apart from thr suggestions above, how do "normal" people wire up their driveway lights !!! Maybe I am overcomplicating it?

Jaba

hornydragon · 18-08-2008, 11:17 AM

normal people have aswitch or at most a dumb timer I like neils ides but it doesnt give an override function for when you come home at 3 AM and normally turn lights off at 12AM The logic is simple (Timer and Photocell) or (gate operation (needs run down timer) and photocell) = lights on

neilball · 18-08-2008, 2:06 PM

You're right in that case then some relay logic to cover the requirements is all that is needed - sounds complicated but reasonably simple electrically.

Jabamusic · 18-08-2008, 4:37 PM

Hi

Between the two of you you seem to have come to a consensus of opinion; any chance of either/both of you telling me exactly what I would need to tell the sparks to achieve the desired effect

Cheers

Jaba

Isco 3 · 18-08-2008, 7:35 PM

Mode Lighting has DMX, world clock, and can operate your gates too. It is a very sofisticated system , offering RS232 and IR, relays, etc, all included in the package.

I have an 18-zone system fitted, and it rocks.

Jason Bourne · 19-08-2008, 12:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jabamusic

Apart from thr suggestions above, how do "normal" people wire up their driveway lights !!! Maybe I am overcomplicating it?

Jaba

Hi Jaba

If you are looking for "normal" people you have come to the wrong place.....

I hope you don't mind another suggestion rather than solution. I have a dedicated home automation PC which is wired to PIR/Microwave sensors in the drive for motion detection. If it detects motion the light fade up ( which looks smarter than just coming on), and fades off when motion stops. I also have RFID tags in the cars, so that the lights fade up when the car gets within around 100 feet of the house. It would be very easy to connect the system to a set of gates if I had them.

cb31 · 25-08-2008, 5:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jason Bourne

I hope you don't mind another suggestion rather than solution. I have a dedicated home automation PC which is wired to PIR/Microwave sensors in the drive for motion detection. If it detects motion the light fade up ( which looks smarter than just coming on), and fades off when motion stops. I also have RFID tags in the cars, so that the lights fade up when the car gets within around 100 feet of the house. It would be very easy to connect the system to a set of gates if I had them.

Could you please tell me what equipment you have that does this as this sounds like what I may need. Thanks

Jason Bourne · 25-08-2008, 7:58 PM

Hi cb31

The gear I have is severe overkill if you just want your drive lights to come on and off. However if you have plans for the future then......

A PC running Homeseer software http://www.homeseer.com/

Then you need and X-10 interface to talk to your modules. http://www.letsautomate.com/10075.cf...URLCaller2=X10

I have some of these PIR's for detecting motion http://www.letsautomate.com/10196.cf...5270F6AB24E854

But I've also weather proofed some of these which are more reliable http://www.pyronix.com/php/web/produ...20Dual%20Techs
However since these aren't X-10 they are wired to these to send the signal back to the PC(hopfully will be hard wired soon) http://www.letsautomate.com/12472.cf...5270F6AB24E854

The RF signal from the detectors is recieved by one of these http://www.rfxcom.com/receivers.htm
You also need either the ACRF2 or RFXcom plug-in for Homeseer.

Then some LD11's for actually dimming the lights. http://www.letsautomate.com/10002.cf...5270F6AB24E854

The RFid Tx's and Rx were from here http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/RF40315RT-Acti...d=p3911.c0.m14
You will also need the CheaperRFid plug-in for Homeseer.

So there you have it...If the cars come within approx 40M of the house. Homeseer picks up the signal via the RFid reciever and sends a command out throught the CM12 to the LD11's to fade up.

If the PIR's in the drive detect motion they send a signal, which is picked up by Homeseer through the RFXcom reciever and also tells the lights to fade up.

I hope this helps

Jabamusic · 26-08-2008, 11:24 AM

Just when I thought I was beginning to settle on an idea along comes Mr Bourne!!!

Jason, will this setup work with LED's?

jaba

Jason Bourne · 26-08-2008, 6:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jabamusic

Just when I thought I was beginning to settle on an idea along comes Mr Bourne!!!

Jason, will this setup work with LED's?

jaba

Hi Jaba

As long as the LED transformer you have is fully dimmable then there shouldn't be a problem. If it still has a plug on the cable then you would only need an LM12 http://www.letsautomate.com/10015.cfm?

If the transformer isn't the dimmable variety then you would need an AM10 which will just turn them on and off http://www.letsautomate.com/10001.cfm? or if it still has the plug an AM12 http://www.letsautomate.com/10001.cfm?

If you intend to go down this route then I suggest you spend a while trawling through the Homeseer website. You'll see that there is a huge amount of kit of different types out there that can do the same thing and a lot lot more.

For instance: your car gets to within 100 feet of your house. Homeseer picks up it's RFID signal and opens the gates and fades up the LED lights for you. It has also turned on the lounge lights and started to boil the kettle.As soon as you are in the house the gates close and the lights fade to off.
Homeseer speaker then tells you how many new e-mails you have and who has been on the phone that day.
etc,etc,etc.......

If you choose to spend that sort of money then you might as well make the most of it.

I hope I've been off some help.

neilball · 26-08-2008, 8:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jason Bourne

Hi Jaba

As long as the LED transformer you have is fully dimmable then there shouldn't be a problem. If it still has a plug on the cable then you would only need an LM12 http://www.letsautomate.com/10015.cfm?

If the transformer isn't the dimmable variety then you would need an AM10 which will just turn them on and off http://www.letsautomate.com/10001.cfm? or if it still has the plug an AM12 http://www.letsautomate.com/10001.cfm?

If you intend to go down this route then I suggest you spend a while trawling through the Homeseer website. You'll see that there is a huge amount of kit of different types out there that can do the same thing and a lot lot more.

For instance: your car gets to within 100 feet of your house. Homeseer picks up it's RFID signal and opens the gates and fades up the LED lights for you. It has also turned on the lounge lights and started to boil the kettle.As soon as you are in the house the gates close and the lights fade to off.
Homeseer speaker then tells you how many new e-mails you have and who has been on the phone that day.
etc,etc,etc.......

If you choose to spend that sort of money then you might as well make the most of it.

I hope I've been off some help.

If you are considering dimmers then do check to see if they have a minimum load requirement as LEDs may not meet this. Loading a dimmer below its minimum load can have unpredictable results - some dimmers pulse the lights - instead of staying a the dimmed level they flash the lamps brightly every few seconds for example.

Jason Bourne · 27-08-2008, 12:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by neilball

If you are considering dimmers then do check to see if they have a minimum load requirement as LEDs may not meet this. Loading a dimmer below its minimum load can have unpredictable results - some dimmers pulse the lights - instead of staying a the dimmed level they flash the lamps brightly every few seconds for example.

You are perfectly correct, I completely forgot about minimum loading.

There is an issue with X-10 equipment current sensing and the minimum load required to make it operate correctly. Not having LED lights myself, most of the other guys either connect in a small incandesent light bulb or one of these plug in air freshners to increase the load on the circuit.

Now where's that spoon so I can eat some humble pie...

hornydragon · 28-08-2008, 10:28 PM

JAson i really like the sounds of your system, I wouldn't risk it to an ebay RFID system and PC but nice work.

Jason Bourne · 29-08-2008, 10:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hornydragon

JAson i really like the sounds of your system, I wouldn't risk it to an ebay RFID system and PC but nice work.

Hi Mr Dragon

It might sound a bit dodgy, but it has worked almost perfectly for a good few years now. I do know that some other people have their problems, but this happens with any product I suppose.

Not only does the PC handle my Home automation, but it also does the CCTV (Geovision 1240), Freeview recording and it's my media server.

I'd like to tell you that getting all this hardware to work together perfectly is due to years of experience, but to be honest it's probably 50% luck.

At the end of the day, luck or not, it's reliable which is all that matters to me...

Cheers