Hi Everybody,

Has anybody had any experience using Netstreams equipment on a Full automation install witch will include: - Video, Lighting, Audio, CCTV, Under floor heating. The project is a large 7 bed house C/W swimming pool / Dedicated Cinema room etc in Rutland. The other thing I was looking at was Life Ware, but this doesn’t seem to be appearing in the UK till 2008 which is too late as first fix starts in the next couple of months, with a build completion of around March 2008. I know that Crestron or AMX would be up to the job but I do like the idea of using PC’s, with one of the touch screens in each room for control, and I would guess cost wise its going to be a lot cheaper and lot easier to for anybody with networking knowledge to do changes etc. The most challenging part of the install seem’s that it would be the lighting as with most of these Automation systems Lutron home works seems to be the norm, which in its self is not something you can pick up off the shelf (so to speak).

Anyway thanks for your time, any advice or comments would be appreciated.

You could look at Control4 which does lighting, like RAKO. Are you an end user looking to do a self-install ?.

Most of these systems are not normally sold direct to end-users in the UK, normally though custom installers.

[neilball]

First off, let me state that I run a residential heating control company so have a commercial interest in this area although I try to be objective in any answers I give

We had Netstreams on our stand at the Smart Home Show to demonstrate integration between their system and our heating control system. This was the first time I got to see the Netstreams product up close and I was impressed with what I got to play with. It does not allow anything like the configurability of Crestron or AMX (both of which we also integrate with) although this appears to be deliberate by design. So no custom programing involved and a much simpler commissioning process but a gurantee of what the user interface will look like and what functionality it provides from the outset & at a significantly lower cost.

Netstreams also now supports Helvar Digidim which has much simpler software tools or a touchscreen controller that is used for setting up scenes etc. Maybe worth a look if you have not come across this system before.

[hornydragon]

Netstreams digilinx will integrate to Rako/Lutron/futronix and Helvar lighting and anything RS232 but you may need to write your interface you can display the CCTV etc on TL keypads, casn be controlled from WiFi PDA/PC/Tablet canoperate gates etc (Doorlinx) seemless integration to ReQuest servers HD video distibution with Panorama and IP video up to 1080i is coming soon so yes it can do everything you need for alot less than AMX crestron etc

Thanks for your advice, and any more will be appreciated. I’m an electrical engineer by trade (Oil Rigs), I’m used to PLC changes and computer networks etc that’s why I was looking at this type of equipment. A friend who owns the building company is building the house for his self and he asked me to project manage, and get involved with the install. Is there a distributor in the UK or is al Netstreams equipment from the USA ?, as I would love to see the equipment in use before to committing. Obviously all the equipment will have to be brought from the controls to the Aux equipment such as thermostats etc. I am going to CEIDA in June but obviously cabling is going to start before then.

[neilball]

Trade distribution in the UK is handled by InVision UK

[hornydragon]

Originally Posted by Alex Saunders

Thanks for your advice, and any more will be appreciated. I’m an electrical engineer by trade (Oil Rigs), I’m used to PLC changes and computer networks etc that’s why I was looking at this type of equipment. A friend who owns the building company is building the house for his self and he asked me to project manage, and get involved with the install. Is there a distributor in the UK or is al Netstreams equipment from the USA ?, as I would love to see the equipment in use before to committing. Obviously all the equipment will have to be brought from the controls to the Aux equipment such as thermostats etc. I am going to CEIDA in June but obviously cabling is going to start before then.

Netstreams use CEA2030 as a cabling spec (US spec so follow this and the the system will work fine on a netstreams level integration is done thorught LInk boxes like Control linx which does the interfacin these require distributed power and data so keep all the kit in the service cupboard needs good ventillation and more space than you ever imagine and run proprietry control cabling for other systems temp sensors etc back to this point then integrate from there commisioning the system is the biggest headache........its all fine in thoery but making it all work is the tricky bit

Don’t suppose any body has an electronic copy of the CEA2030 spec that I could have do they ???

Thanks again all.

[charris cy]

Crestron and Amx can also use pcs to control their systems. You do not have to buy their expensive tablets. About netstreams have a look at this thread where some dealers and some company representatives discuss about the system: http://www.remotecentral.com/cgi-bin...read.cgi?12152

[hornydragon]

Originally Posted by charris cy

Crestron and Amx can also use pcs to control their systems. You do not have to buy their expensive tablets. About netstreams have a look at this thread where some dealers and some company representatives discuss about the system: http://www.remotecentral.com/cgi-bin...read.cgi?12152

B Limey just read that thread at RC and some of those guys in the us seem to have made a real pigs ear of the systems they can be a pain t commission but in terms of wiring are dead easy while CEA2030 is the ideal you can get away with far less and use the same wiring as many other systems if you have to but putting in the correct wiring if you ca is better

[Bruce_]

The new Philips Pronto 9600 (www.pronto.philips.com) is worth a look. When used with the extender unit, it can provide close to AMX/Crestron functionality.

As far as lighting controls are concerned. Lutron Homeworks is good, but VERY expensive. There are many alternatives, and most are available to buy directly.

[neilball]

Nain are launching their Naimnet system which uses the Netstreams network protocol under licence. They will have top quality uncompressed music servers, video switching & full integration with Netstreams. I'm going to a training day next week to take a closer look but there is also some info here.

[hornydragon]

Originally Posted by neilball

Nain are launching their Naimnet system which uses the Netstreams network protocol under licence. They will have top quality uncompressed music servers, video switching & full integration with Netstreams. I'm going to a training day next week to take a closer look but there is also some info here.

Let me know if they have it working yet.......... for the money i can think of better alternative to the Naim kit Also the 9600 even with RS232 extender WiFi extender is very limited in terms of full control and interfacing, not a bad remote but the lack of feedback is the main issue, also for home control having multiple control points is required that gets tricky with the pronto

[MAW]

The Naim kit, apart fromt he IP radio streamer, is just rebadged netstreams and Request. Netstreams now have the MLA400 for those that need multiple radio/satellite audio streams. For full feedback, the RC9600 is useless, they say they are writing interfaces for Imerge, and possibly Request, but that is yet to appear. If you want feedback, it's Netstreams, AMX and Crestron really. Controlling HVAC with netstreams would be quite a project, but all possible. The Rako interface is quite funky, no reason why something similar could not be created for heating/cooling.

[neilball]

Well HVAC control integration between Sensible Heat Hometronic works right now - it was on our stand at The Smart Home Show, so full zone control of heating, ventilation, air con etc is available today. The driver/protocol offers full support for Hometronic so needs no custom programming. That said, it would not be any more work to do the same with Crestron or AMX as again the drivers are already written, tested and in use in lots of installs.

Naim have licensed Streamnet (the Netstreams protocol) for their new system and I'm looking forward to seeing it tomorrow. From what I've been told the servers are new Naim products rather than rebadged units. I'll know better when I've had a chance to fire some questions at the training event.

[MAW]

Have fun, Neil! Give my best to Alan, and the netstreams guys if they are there too. I'll be interested to see a Naim server, but why re-invent the wheel? Any server should rip a CD losslessly to .wav if so set up, and the Request ones, in black, look the part for Naim now. Power amps, that's what I'd like to see from Naim.

[neilball]

Well Alan Ainslee was on top form and the Naimnet kit is *very* impressive!

The servers are all new and unique in their features. Apparantly they are the workds first to store music files as pure data so no messy resampling by the PC innards that seemingly happens on all PCs and other sound servers - the ususal Naim audiophile quality. Also full isolation of control and audio electronics. They also include twin drives for mirror backup/redundancy and can use NAS for additional storage/backup capacity - no silly prives for drive upgrades here. They also have the ability to synchronise between multiple servers automatically for those lucjy enough to have mutliple homes with multipke servers - stick a CD in one machine and it automatically copies to all the other servers so all of your music is available at any location. There is a ton of stuff that seriusly impressed me, worth taking a closer look when the ranges actually launch in a couple of months.

They also have 2 new streamnet stereo amps that mean you don't have to use the Netstreams units where sound quality is a factor.

There is also a component 8x8 video matrix switcher that delivers HD over Cat5e as a stopgap while they work on full HD digital streaming over Streamnet.

The Naimnet partner programme for integration with other manufacturers should also deliver some major benefits. All in all the new Naimnet package really deserves to be a massive success, it is well implemented and will have the usual high levels of support for dealers and end users alike.

[hornydragon]

Originally Posted by neilball

There is also a component 8x8 video matrix switcher that delivers HD over Cat5e as a stopgap while they work on full HD digital streaming over Streamnet.

The Naimnet partner programme for integration with other manufacturers should also deliver some major benefits. All in all the new Naimnet package really deserves to be a massive success, it is well implemented and will have the usual high levels of support for dealers and end users alike.

Is taht anaimnet matrix? Netstreams are launching the IP video kit V soon if not already. Are they marketing Naimnet as a different product to Digilinx? or an allied partner? The server Sync is possible on Request and so is back up but drive prices are fairly high

[jfinnie]

Originally Posted by neilball

The servers are all new and unique in their features. Apparantly they are the workds first to store music files as pure data so no messy resampling by the PC innards that seemingly happens on all PCs and other sound servers

Hi;

I'm afraid this is a big bit of marketing FUD...

All XiVA based (Imerge, etc) SoundServer products since 2000 have offered full bit-perfect, uncompressed, gapless storage and playback at native sample rates (no re-sampling whatsoever). We've demo'd this many times with DTS encoded CD audio playback (impossible without _all_ the previously mentioned features), and I've personally verified it with our £20,000 Audio Precision System 2 Cascade audio analyzer.

Regards

James
(Hardware Team Leader, Imerge Ltd)

[neilball]

Originally Posted by hornydragon

Is taht anaimnet matrix? Netstreams are launching the IP video kit V soon if not already. Are they marketing Naimnet as a different product to Digilinx? or an allied partner? The server Sync is possible on Request and so is back up but drive prices are fairly high

The Naim video switcher is not network enabled, it just sends the signal over Cat5e although it can convert analogue video signals to component. Naim are also looking at video streaming over Steamnet but it sounds like there are some development issues within the protocol to look at.

Naimnet is quite separate from Digilinx, Naim simply licence the Streamnet protocol. However the Digilinx/Naimnet products are fully compatible so can be mixed and matched on an install.

Originally Posted by jfinnie

Hi;

I'm afraid this is a big bit of marketing FUD...

All XiVA based (Imerge, etc) SoundServer products since 2000 have offered full bit-perfect, uncompressed, gapless storage and playback at native sample rates (no re-sampling whatsoever). We've demo'd this many times with DTS encoded CD audio playback (impossible without _all_ the previously mentioned features), and I've personally verified it with our £20,000 Audio Precision System 2 Cascade audio analyzer.

Regards

James
(Hardware Team Leader, Imerge Ltd)

That means I can have some fun speaking to Naim at Cedia then