Ive just moved into a new house and need to buy some home security does anyone know of any self install systems for around £300.00 grateful for any ideas as every were i look is too expensive!! i want cameras and it would be good to get alerts.

[JJ London]

If you have broadband then my husband bought a kit a couple weeks ago, which we think is great as you can access it remotely and i can control it from my mobile too. I think it's called X1000 from myhome. We have put power controllers to eliminate our tv standby - gotta think green! and have temp sensors keepin our fish healthy so was ideal system for us. Oh cameras are ip based and can be viewed live from some mobiles - mine does hubbies doesn't so can see what is happening if a device goes off. £250 with the extra bits ours cost. http://www.myhome247.co.uk

[ZippyCat]

Don’t waste your money on ‘cheap’ security, it is a complete false economy and offers little or no protection whatsoever. For £300 you could have a professional company install a reasonable ‘bell only’ system that will perform much better than any of DIY systems that you can readily buy. Obviously if you stretch your budget a little you can improve on this, but never skimp on security. You could have your intruder alarm specialist install a voice and text dialler (approximately £100-£150) that can send you a text message in the event of an alarm, if you don’t fancy the ongoing costs associated with a fully monitored system. On a side note, speaking from a professional point of view, do not install any alarm system that relies on a broadband connection for alarm monitoring, they are extremely unreliable and often fail to report an event. If you have a limited budget you are much better upgrading locks, adding security lighting etc before installing a DIY alarm. Almost every DIY alarm installation I have seen (and many ‘professional’ installations for that matter), can be silenced/disabled within a matter of seconds by an intruder who has a vague understanding of how an alarm works.

[ZippyCat]

Oh, I forgot to add a comment regarding CCTV.

Unless you have a budget in excess of £1000 for CCTV, then don’t bother. Cameras and associated ancillary equipment at the budget end of the market will not provide sufficient evidence to be used in any criminal prosecution. You would be better spending your money on other security measures.

Regards,

ZippyCat

[Sprout Crumble]

Its always worth having a camera or two outside to deter the casual thief or kids etc.
Its considerably more likely to be hit by an amateur or petty thief than a pro, especially in the less rich areas.

[ZippyCat]

The point I was trying to make is that you are better off investing in a couple of decent measures of security than lots of poor to average measures. If you were after the deterrent factor, it would be better to install an empty full sized camera housing (e.g. Dennard D2010) than installing a budget camera. With regards to the alarm side of things, it always makes me laugh when I see those Yale or Response systems that people buy from B&Q or Home Base that plug directly into the phone line. It doesn’t that a pro to disable one of those; all the intruder would need to do is head towards the source of the sound (the main panel), and unplug the thing from the phone line, as you would do with a normal telephone. Even the most idiotic intruder would be able to manage that one! In my opinion the best measure of security for a nighttime deterrent is to ensure there is a good level of lighting surrounding the building; criminals do not like to be seen.

[Sprout Crumble]

Certainly agree with the lights and the big dummy cameras. If you can't afford a decent security setup then make it look like you can.

[jagdeepp]

Originally Posted by ZippyCat

Oh, I forgot to add a comment regarding CCTV.

Unless you have a budget in excess of £1000 for CCTV, then don’t bother. Cameras and associated ancillary equipment at the budget end of the market will not provide sufficient evidence to be used in any criminal prosecution. You would be better spending your money on other security measures.

Regards,

ZippyCat

Now, i entirely disagree with that assertion. Its absolutely rubbish. I'm a criminal defense lawyer and have experience of some very decent cctv cameras. You'll be surprised as to how poor a quality you can end up with even on the bigger cameras. The primary point is this, even if the camera were budget you've got a higher chance of securing a conviction if the person can be identified with grainy footage by specific clothing worn by the offfender or by a glimpse of his face. Usually any reference to cctv at site is enough for an offender to panic and 1 in 4 will admit on a full facts basis!
On the flip side however even if u have the highest quality of camera in the world it wont make a blinding bit of difference if it covers your doorway but not your garage which he climbs over. Alternatively, your high quality camera still won't help if you capture footage of someone but he's wearing a common hoodie disguising his face.

The long and short of it is, cheap or expensive there are benefits to any kind of security! Site of a visible camera even dummy is enough to put off most offenders. Remember most offenders are opportunistic. They have drug habits in most cases to feed and will often target an 'easy job' than a property which is 'hot'.

hope that helps

[ZippyCat]

Originally Posted by jagdeepp

Now, i entirely disagree with that assertion. Its absolutely rubbish. I'm a criminal defense lawyer and have experience of some very decent cctv cameras. You'll be surprised as to how poor a quality you can end up with even on the bigger cameras. The primary point is this, even if the camera were budget you've got a higher chance of securing a conviction if the person can be identified with grainy footage by specific clothing worn by the offfender or by a glimpse of his face. Usually any reference to cctv at site is enough for an offender to panic and 1 in 4 will admit on a full facts basis!
On the flip side however even if u have the highest quality of camera in the world it wont make a blinding bit of difference if it covers your doorway but not your garage which he climbs over. Alternatively, your high quality camera still won't help if you capture footage of someone but he's wearing a common hoodie disguising his face.

The long and short of it is, cheap or expensive there are benefits to any kind of security! Site of a visible camera even dummy is enough to put off most offenders. Remember most offenders are opportunistic. They have drug habits in most cases to feed and will often target an 'easy job' than a property which is 'hot'.

hope that helps

Well speaking from a professional point of view I stand by my opinion. For a start it has nothing to do with the ‘size of the camera’ as you put it, but the quality of the components inside and the application of the system that makes a difference. I would agree with you that most professional CCTV cameras in the UK are still not setup correctly and are not used to the maximum potential. Even the highest quality camera will still yield poor results if not setup correctly, so there also needs to be a degree of experience when installing a system. Also as a lawyer you will be familiar with the submission of evidence guidelines that set the parameters for evidence suitable for admission in court. Unless you purchase professional quality equipment you will not meet all the parameters set out in such documents i.e. time date stamp and DPA. As a lawyer you will only ever see images from cameras that have actually captured evidence, not a camera that has missed such events. I can categorically state that poor quality CCTV equipment or CCTV equipment not used in the correct way will result in an unusable image; this unusable image will not make its way to any prosecution case (in most cases the police will not even take recordings offsite). The best security measures that home owners can take are measures that act as deterrents, the main one being a decent level of perimeter lighting, then good quality windows, doors and locks, and finally a monitored alarm. A home owner would be prudent to invest in upgrading these security measures first than squandering £300 on a ‘B&Q CCTV special’. If you read further down I have also stated that it would be better to invest in an empty full sized camera housing than to spend the same amount on a ‘working’ camera. Reading between the lines I feel you agree with this last statement when you mention dummy cameras.

[Mivan]

Hi, not posted before but i feel i should on this matter...

I have a cheap black and white camera from Argos i believe. It's pointed at my navara outside the house. It's got excellent visiblity at night and during the day. Plus sound (although the only thing you usually hear is wind!!!).

It's linked into the video player and i just set it to record every night. Though any recording machine can be used.

I found a key scratch on it one morning so i looked back on video and found the little ****. Needless to say he didnt do it again.

The whole point is there are cheaper alternatives that work well and its also a good deterant (too most people) due to the bright blue LED it has on the front.

As for alarms i DIY'ed our burglar alarm bought all the bits from Screwfix and wired it in myself. With all the cable hidden in the walls, etc it would take some time to silence! (i hope)

Hello everyone

[Colonial Marine]

Originally Posted by ZippyCat

Oh, I forgot to add a comment regarding CCTV.

Unless you have a budget in excess of £1000 for CCTV, then don’t bother. Cameras and associated ancillary equipment at the budget end of the market will not provide sufficient evidence to be used in any criminal prosecution. You would be better spending your money on other security measures.

Regards,

ZippyCat

Sorry to chip in sooooo late on this one. As a copper I'd rather people had "some" security than none. I have just seen 4 burglars sucessfully convicted after being identified by a crappo PIII system with a web cam and motion detection software. They clocked the camera and ripped it out, but left the server, which was in plain sight. Victim already had a disk of footage waiting for me when I turned up to report it!

You don't need to spend a thousand pounds. Tuck your server away somewhere where the burglar wont find it (ie loft/broom cupboard) and you will be fine. With secet/hidden cameras the burglar might stare right at the camera and give you a perfect image to take to court.

Some is ALWAYS better than none, and, of course, spend wisely where the money is best spent. Window locks, motion sensor lights, trimming bushes etc etc are alo great ways to minimise your chances of getting screwed.

[moogen]

Originally Posted by ZippyCat

Don’t waste your money on ‘cheap’ security, it is a complete false economy and offers little or no protection whatsoever. For £300 you could have a professional company install a reasonable ‘bell only’ system that will perform much better than any of DIY systems that you can readily buy. Obviously if you stretch your budget a little you can improve on this, but never skimp on security. You could have your intruder alarm specialist install a voice and text dialler (approximately £100-£150) that can send you a text message in the event of an alarm, if you don’t fancy the ongoing costs associated with a fully monitored system. On a side note, speaking from a professional point of view, do not install any alarm system that relies on a broadband connection for alarm monitoring, they are extremely unreliable and often fail to report an event. If you have a limited budget you are much better upgrading locks, adding security lighting etc before installing a DIY alarm. Almost every DIY alarm installation I have seen (and many ‘professional’ installations for that matter), can be silenced/disabled within a matter of seconds by an intruder who has a vague understanding of how an alarm works.

I too want to pipe up about this, i installed 'crappy diy'er' alarm in my old house, one day i was burgled it only had one sensor fitted in the hallway, but you could tell by the way they had left in a hasty manner, ie no further than the hallway the alarm had triggered and had scared them off.. For the 50quid it cost me im happy.
And now im happy to install a better one this time, covering all windows etc.


Now if i had alot of money id pay someone but i haven't so im doing it myself.

I took some tips from the police, don't leave any tools or things lying around in the garden, apparently alot of them use these tools in case what they have isn't enough (they use a spade of mine to get in my back window).

And do fit a camera, any sorts in good view also post a warning on vulnerable windows in small text "warning, cameras in use, and will be used in prosecution of any traspassers" etc, let them know you're expecting them!

Its always good practice to remove the back door key etc when you are out, again my thieves had to leave hastily the way they got in, as all doors were locked with keys strategically hidden, good luck.

[blicky_1]

Originally Posted by ZippyCat

Well speaking from a professional point of view I stand by my opinion

Zippy as a GM of a professional installation company I totaly agree with you just a shame everyone does not see the things we do (DIY installs, cheap equipment, and ADT) over 50% of our work is taking out DIY systems that are less than 2 years old! usually after the warranty runs out....

If I had a pound for the amount of women I have had in tears during a survey after a break in I would be retired Most of them either had a DIY system the husband installed on the cheap and it did not work or a system that was 20+ years old! and they lost items that could not be replaced.....

Bottom line is professional systems WORK if they don't sue the company that installed it. Best to get an NSi (NACOSS) approved contractor and have it on a contract to ensure everything is checked and working.

[ZippyCat]

Originally Posted by blicky_1

Zippy as a GM of a professional installation company I totaly agree with you just a shame everyone does not see the things we do (DIY installs, cheap equipment, and ADT) over 50% of our work is taking out DIY systems that are less than 2 years old! usually after the warranty runs out....

If I had a pound for the amount of women I have had in tears during a survey after a break in I would be retired Most of them either had a DIY system the husband installed on the cheap and it did not work or a system that was 20+ years old! and they lost items that could not be replaced.....

Bottom line is professional systems WORK if they don't sue the company that installed it. Best to get an NSi (NACOSS) approved contractor and have it on a contract to ensure everything is checked and working.

Don’t get me started on ADT; I recently had to advise their technical department that a single dual technology detector does not constitute as a confirmed alarm!

[Strobe]

Originally Posted by blicky_1

Zippy as a GM of a professional installation company I totaly agree with you just a shame everyone does not see the things we do (DIY installs, cheap equipment, and ADT) over 50% of our work is taking out DIY systems that are less than 2 years old! usually after the warranty runs out....

If I had a pound for the amount of women I have had in tears during a survey after a break in I would be retired Most of them either had a DIY system the husband installed on the cheap and it did not work or a system that was 20+ years old! and they lost items that could not be replaced.....

Bottom line is professional systems WORK if they don't sue the company that installed it. Best to get an NSi (NACOSS) approved contractor and have it on a contract to ensure everything is checked and working.

Just out of interest, which professional installer?

[blicky_1]

Originally Posted by ZippyCat

Don’t get me started on ADT; I recently had to advise their technical department that a single dual technology detector does not constitute as a confirmed alarm!

And I would love to tell you how many rooms I have seen with 2 standard PIR's for confirmation on ADT systems

[blicky_1]

Originally Posted by Strobe

Just out of interest, which professional installer?

Not sure if I am allowed to advertise on the forums, PM me if you want to know, we are located in Crowthorne, Berkshire if that helps

(NSI search will bring us up)

wow all this because he asked for a £300 system, Min BS4737 installation is whats required, no matter who installs is lets menction SSAIB as well

ADT the professional diy installation company

[blicky_1]

Originally Posted by gasspark

wow all this because he asked for a £300 system, Min BS4737 installation is whats required, no matter who installs is lets menction SSAIB as well

ADT the professional diy installation company

I think you will find BS4737 went a few years ago mate we are now on EN graded systems.

Originally Posted by blicky_1

I think you will find BS4737 went a few years ago mate we are now on EN graded systems.

true, my point is that a system installed to the minimum standard is all thats required. Most professional installation companys as you know follow the regs, (excluding ADT who make there own). Problem for original author is how does he know its been installed to any standard.

[spiderman78]

Originally Posted by blicky_1

And I would love to tell you how many rooms I have seen with 2 standard PIR's for confirmation on ADT systems

Sorry to hijack but what does the above mean?

I'm about to contact ADT this week to survey my property. I want a monitored system and my brother had ADT at his old place.

Is there any serious reasons why I should reconsider using ADT and are there any reputable monitored systems/suppliers I should consider?

[ZippyCat]

Originally Posted by spiderman78

Sorry to hijack but what does the above mean?

I'm about to contact ADT this week to survey my property. I want a monitored system and my brother had ADT at his old place.

Is there any serious reasons why I should reconsider using ADT and are there any reputable monitored systems/suppliers I should consider?

In order for the police to attend following an alarm activation a confirmed signal must have been received by the ARC (Alarm Receiving Centre). In simplistic terms this means activation of two independent zones on the system. Typically each detector is allocated it’s own zone therefore to achieve a confirmed alarm two detectors have to be activated for the police to attend (this is to minimise false alarm call outs). Detectors are not allowed to have overlapping coverage if they use the same technology (with certain exceptions e.g. dual technology detectors). As Blicky_1 said two standard PIR’s in a room is strictly a no no as any potential source of a false activation is likely to operate both detectors thus generate a confirmed signal.

With regards to ADT I would strongly recommend looking for an alternative company (I would rather not discuss my reasoning on an open forum). I would look in the yellow pages for a local company who are either NSI or SSAIB certified; they will be able to install a monitored alarm without the hassle. I often hear ADT referred to as the alarm system that everybody wants until they actually have one!

[spiderman78]

ZippyCat what is your professional opinion of the wireless systems that companies now offer? Are they impacted by wireless broadband in a home?

[ZippyCat]

Originally Posted by spiderman78

ZippyCat what is your professional opinion of the wireless systems that companies now offer? Are they impacted by wireless broadband in a home?

Although many wireless systems have improved in performance and reliability I would still recommend the wired option if you can accommodate it. Any good installer would be able to conceal cabling with minimum disruption to the internal décor. Wired systems are less prone to reliability issues often caused by communication breaks, low battery or false low battery warnings and the actual quality of components/devices. Your installer would be limited to a small selection of compatible devices if you went the wireless route, but would be able to use almost any type of wired device if you go the wired route. The installer would have a wider selection of devices from different manufacturers to choose from and therefore can tailor the system to your exact needs. I feel it would be somewhat unlikely that a wireless broadband system will cause any problems as both operate at different frequencies; although there are always unique cases where this may not hold true e.g. devices don’t comply with statutory frequency/interference requirements.

Hope this helps.

[blicky_1]

Totally agree with Zippycat, we only use wireless if it is not possible to cable.

Btw. by the time you add up the cost of wireless parts you could have had a wired system installed and had some change!

[spiderman78]

Hi guys,

Thanks for your feedback I really appreciate you taking the time

I have contacted a local company that's NSI GOLD and ARC GOLD that do commercial and domestic installations. They're coming to do a free survey.

Thanks again.

[ZippyCat]

No problem.

Let us know how you get on.

[blicky_1]

Originally Posted by ZippyCat

No problem.

Let us know how you get on.

Ditto......

[mattystorey001]

Hi I currently have an old wired alarm that has 4 PIR sensors and 1 contact sensor (front door). I define it as old as it was last serviced in 1997 (just bought the house).

I am looking to have it upgraded/replaced if it is required.

I am having some building work done in March so this would be an ideal time to have it removed and replaced while new walls and floors are ripped up and replaced.

I am looking for 5 PIR/Motion sensors (utility, dining room, kitchen, lounge, and hallway) and 1 contact sensor (front door) put in place.

Is it worth considering having a contact sensor installed onto the backdoor?

The unit is installed in the understairs cupboard.

I do not have a phone line running into the house.

What should i be looking for/asking for? What about informing an ARC/police(?)

And how much am i looking at?

It's an old 1920's Manchester build.

Many Thanks

Matt.

[ZippyCat]

Hi Matty,

I would definitely recommend getting a magnetic contact installed on the back door. I would also recommend adding a couple of smoke detectors if you can accommodate them. With regards to the phone line/monitoring only you can answer that one, as you will need to weight up the overall cost to benefit for your needs. Personally I don’t usually recommend monitoring for domestic alarms as by the time the ARC filtering period has elapsed and the police attend the perpetrators have long gone. I do tend to recommend a speech/text dialler though to send a message to a mobile phone, but this is more for peace of mind.