[TJP32]

As part of an entire house renovation project i am now looking at the possibility of some fancy zone lighting. I have been told that a good system to buy is the Lutron grafik Eye which is also good value for money for the effect that you get.

Now as i understand it you can buy 2,4,6,8 zone modules that can either sit in the area to be 'zoned' OR if you prefer (since they are a fair size) they can be sited elsewhere then have a cat 5 link to a smaller wall interface?

Also is it as simple as having a feed from the CU to the module then each zone is star wired from the module or is there more to it than that?

Would agree that this is probably the easiest and cheapest solution to zone lighting?

many thanks

[hornydragon]

lighting can be cool and also can cost £100000 deopends on the number of zones (rooms) and circuits (controlled groups of lights) these are often channels 4 channels per room6 rooms is ££££££ but its up to yopu and graffic eyes are 1 room solutions not house solutions look at Lutron Homeworks and Helvar Digidim for whole house also if you want to integrate the lights CCTV music and other stuff into one system you need to do plenty of research or go to a specialist who can advise

[neilball]

Originally Posted by TJP32

Also is it as simple as having a feed from the CU to the module then each zone is star wired from the module or is there more to it than that?

Almost - in every case the lighting circuits are star wired using standard twin & earth. However the keypad wiring can be different, not just cable types - some use Cat5e, some use proprietry cable and some can use a mixture including twin & earth - but the wiring topology also can be different. Many are simply star wired but some have to have keypads wired in series. For the series wiring you either have to wire from one keypad to the next or pull in two runs of cable from the "star point" and series them back at this central location. You then have to be aware of the voltage drop and maximum cable lengths to ensure you do not have any problems on larger installs.

The only other fly in the ointment is that many of the full scene set systems - Lutron Homeworks, Helvar Digidim/Imagine etc are not sold to end users, they are only available through installers. This means they supply and program the system for you although they may agree that you can run the cables, fit the boxes to the wall etc. Installer route will cost more than DIY but as Horny mentions you will also be getting their expertise in selecting the right hardware as well as programming and back up.

[Bruce_]

Define your budget, control requirements, load schedule, and expectations regarding installation (DIY?), and I'm happy to make some suggestions.

Lutron Grafik Eye is nice, but it's not the cheapest solution. What is right for one person is quite different to another.

Lutron/Helvar might not sell to people off the street, for good reasons too, but that doesn't mean that everyone is like that.

[TJP32]

Originally Posted by Bruce_

Define your budget, control requirements, load schedule, and expectations regarding installation (DIY?), and I'm happy to make some suggestions.

My expectations are:
1. 4/6 zone circuits in kitchen/diner.
2. 4/6 zone circuits in through lounge that will have a 5.1 system in it.
3. 4/6 zone circuits in master bedroom/ensuite.
4. 2 zone circuit in hallway/stairs.
5. Probably just single circuits in 3 remaining bedrooms and kids play room.
6. Maybe two zones outside.
7. Single zone in the garage.
8. If I could control all of the lighting from a single point that would be nice but NOT essential.
9. If I could link it to the alarm/CCTV system that would be nice too.
10. Will do all cabling as required myself.

I don't have a budget per se yet as this was an after thought in this project. Would like to know how cheaply this can be done and then will adjust the budget accordingly if I feel I can justify it.

Many thanks for your help

Tony

[Bruce_]

There's 101 ways to construct a system to do what you need. But I'll summarise into 3 concepts.

1) Standalone dimmers
2) Wireless dimming system
3) Networked dimming system

None of these are cheap. If you want cheap, then stick with knob-on-wall dimmers. I guess it really depends on what you're interested in paying.

Standalone Dimming

There are several solutions, like the Lutron Grafik Eye, for multi-channel "wallbox" dimmers. Apart from Grafik Eye, which is a very nice but also quite expensive dimmer, there are ZEN, Mode, and perhaps others (which I wouldn't recommend)

Standalone = not networked, and therefore you can't control everything form one place. Also, the big "control panel" isn't to everyone's liking. Remote dimmers, with a normal single-gang control panel is usually preferred. But if you want that, then there's little point buying a standalone dimmer.

As a very rough guide, it's £100 per circuit. But you can google for online pricing easily.

Wireless Dimming

I think everyone here has heard of Rako. A very nice product, and easily obtainable (everyone's selling it). There's also GET plc

Wireless stuff tends to be designed to be idiot-proof, and therefore not as flexible as you might want, but it can easily control all of your circuits. The benefits are NO WIRES. But you have to replace batteries in the panels. Not that often, but if you have a dozen panels to do each year or 2, it's something to consider.

As a rough guide, panels and dimmers are around £100 each

Networked Dimming

Networked dimming is the most flexible, in terms of function possible, and likely to be the most expensive.

Lutron Homeworks is I guess an industry benchmark. But it comes at a high price. How high? If you need to ask, you can't afford it You can network the Grafik Eye, but it's not likely to be a DIY solution.

Other networked dimming systems are iLight, Mode, Dynalite, Clipsal, Helvar, and several others.

Networked dimming systems generally use CAT5 cabling to connect it all together, using DINrail dimmers (small loads), or rack dimmers (larger loads). Most of them will allow and button ony any panel to control any/all circuits. So if you want an "ALL OFF" button at your bedside or front door, a networked system is probably the best choice. One advantage over wireless, is that the panels usually have LED tellback (and no batteries). As I said above, it's the most flexible system, but at a price. However for a 24 channel system, you might find that the costs difference is minimal.

If you'd like control of the whole house from one panel, a good solution is a touchscreen. Examples: iLight, Helvar, Dynalite

Other benefits include, but exclusively for networked dimming, integration with other devices, such as audio, heating/aircon, blinds/curtains, etc.
Guide price is £120-240 per panel, and around £50-100 per circuit depending on size/number.

Alarm system integration is possible, but it's generally restricted to contact-closure "remote setting", or "turn all lights on if alarm triggered". Anything else, like a keypad to deactivate the alarm from a touchscreen at the front door, is possible but not NACOSS approved, and therefore not a good idea for insurance reasons.

In summary, the options are:

1) 5 or 6 Grafik Eye type dimmers - around £3K
2) 24 wireless dimmers, 12 wireless control panels - around £3K
3) 24 circuits of DINrail networks dimming + 12 control panels - around £3.5K
4) 2 x 12 channel rack dimmers, 12 control panels + touchscreen - around £4.5K

Prices are "list price" and not including VAT.

Think about what you want to pay, what you want it to do, then go get some prices. If you want any comment/advice on the prices you get, you're welcome to PM me.

I've tried to give a balanced view of what's available Links provided for information only, and are not an endorsement of any specific company/product.

[TJP32]

Bruce

That is fantastic. Lots of effort which I really appreciate.

Wireless is a no no for me as I would simply get hacked off having to change batteries. Besides I'm in an ideal position to wire everything. The difference of £1.5K standalone to fully integrated system makes me think that it's probably worth spending the extra so that I can possibly future proof the system.

The prices are high but to be honest not as high as I thought so I really need to give this some serious consideration. Of course I still need to factor in the cable cost and all of the light fittings and if I do go for an all singing and dancing system then it will probably be worth my while to get a professional to design it as I may make a pigs ear of it which would defeat the object.

You seem to know an awful lot about this - may I ask if you're an installer/electrican or someone who has had a system done?

In any case many thanks and I will probably take you up on the price advice.

Tony

[Bruce_]

Perhaps best if I don't go into detail, but dimming is something I have an interest in. And therefore very happy to help someone get a good system for a good price, whatever they decide.

Decide what lighting you're going to get first.