I'm in the process of buying a house and would like to be able to consume audio (multi-room / multi-channel) in 5 different rooms in the home and video in a subset of 3 of them. I'm new to this kind of stuff and know little about it.

I'd be grateful for some advice. I have a budget around £7k for the lot including all kit except TV & Stereo equipment.

One of the cabling solutions I've come across is that instead of using CAT5e to use CAT8 like that offered by http://www.singlepointnetworks.co.uk/, which runs at 1.2GHz + the kit.

Any thoughts?

[vex]

There are several 'issues' with CAT8 systems.

The cable is incredibly difficult to handle and install, it has some tight tollerances, bend radius's and the connector is unique to the system.

The cable is not actually approved as an industry standard, Cat7 has only just been approved.

Cat8 does not give you any great performance improvement for your data and telephone services only the fact that you can get TV (analogue) down it in its raw UHF format. 480Mhz - 862Mhz).

You still have to design some of the system with Coax cable to be able to get the UHF, FM, DAB and Satellite signals down to the initial CAT8 distribution box. Even then CAT8 will not pass satellite frequencies so you still need coax to be able to feed any Sky boxes.

Personally there is nothing wrong a well designed Coax and Cat5e system. The Coax will pass all your UHF, FM, DAB and Satellite signals as well as any Sky IR instructions. Whilst the CAT5e canbe used to carry your Telephone, Data and Music signals.

Our installers offer such a kit, installed for between £3500 and £5000 depending on the system and work required.

HTH

Chris

[hornydragon]

Originally Posted by jasel

I'm in the process of buying a house and would like to be able to consume audio (multi-room / multi-channel) in 5 different rooms in the home and video in a subset of 3 of them. I'm new to this kind of stuff and know little about it.

I'd be grateful for some advice. I have a budget around £7k for the lot including all kit except TV & Stereo equipment.

hmm well 2 choices DIY it and spend forever tweaking and sorting or get in installed for you audio in 5 rooms is easy when you say video what do you mean? fully distributed HD or sky and dvd and do you it all centrally distributed? cat5 systems can handle all of this cat8 gives more Mbps but thats not a massive issue unless you can afford HD IP Video servers (£20k) for phone multiroom audio data and TV then a cat5 system is all thats needed you can send IR phone and data down 1 cat5 so wire 2 to every room CEA2030 spec airing is a good idea (cat5 and 4 core speaker cable) add some coax 2 to each room and 4 to main rooms and there isnt much you cant do.

What I'm basically after is HD in the lounge and then the ability to consume the same content in the kitchen and one bedroom. It's only the lounge that needs to be HD, which is fine.

In terms of audio, the ability to have different music/radio or the same track playing in different rooms.

Then there's the phones and computer equipment...

Other than that - the wiring in place to allow me to control my lighting in the future perhaps but that aside it's pretty much it.

I'm afraid I don't know much about this kind of stuff but am interested... is there an online reference that anyone's aware of that may be able to help educate me on the options available in terms of multi-room AV solutions etc?

[hornydragon]

Originally Posted by jasel

I'm afraid I don't know much about this kind of stuff but am interested... is there an online reference that anyone's aware of that may be able to help educate me on the options available in terms of multi-room AV solutions etc?

well to have a decent feed from sky HD to bedroom with control and then RF to kitchen is pretty simple lighting can be done many ways have a look at RAKO which is retrofit with wireless control audio over several rooms can be done with manny systems ones to consider are \netstreams Musica, Systemline modular, Sonos and many more depends on the rooms sources as to whats best phones and data is straight cat5 (remember phone for sky boxes) so you can run cat5 for that easily there isnt a great single resource but manufacturers have plenty info on their sites each system has advantages/disadvantages to integrtate the whole lot you into a single system your looking at a fairly hefty bill i would suggest wiring to CEA2030 standard as its very flexible with plenty of Cat5 for other services there are plenty of specialist dealers about where are you

Thank you for that - you've been very helpful... I'm in London.
Was very impressed with the Sonos ... saw it at the SH expo last week at the NEC - really well thought out user interface and flexible enough for my requirement.

[hornydragon]

in london there are loads of people who spec and sell you a system that does this try asking a few cedia memebrs/forum memebrs for some quotes etc i think Lazymatt does sonos stuff plenty do mulitroom stuff as do a few opther forum dealers

[JamesAV]

Don't want to hijack the thread but I am in a similar situation in that I am having my house completely renovated/extended and seek to install an AV network.

My AV knowledge is limited so maybe you can help me out if I tell you what I want to achieve?


Visual:

3 new HD TV’s (lounge, kitchen, upstairs bedroom):

All wall mounted (no wires visible).

Two Sky HD subscriptions and one sky multi-room subscription. I would like a fully flexible solution so that I can view and control SKY HD on any of the TV’s.

HD DVD player: Again that I can view and control from any TV.

PS3 and Xbox 360: That I can play from any TV. Is this possible? I envisage IR receivers underneath the TV’s sending back controller signals to the consoles.

I’ve had a quick look around and in terms of controlling the AV equipment remotely have come across a Phillips IR sending device which I think uses wireless network to control devices. Has anyone had any experience of using such devices with Sky HD?

Audio:

I would like a system where I can listen to digital radio, mp3’s and CD’s in any of the 3 locations listed. Ceiling mounted speakers would be preferable.

Internet/networking:

Thinking all wireless. Is there a need/benefit to install a Cat5 network?

I envisage a central ‘hub’ with all the Sky boxes/DVD players, network routers etc with cabling out to the screens.


Any advice/suggestions from you guys would be greatly appreciated.

[David PluggedIn]

Hi James,

As some others mentioned there are a whole raft of options available. It is certainly achievable to have all of the kit centralised and then use centralised switching and video transmission out to the rooms. It needs careful planning though, certainly as you want to run an HD based system then of course you need to install an infrastructure that can support HD video without loss of quality (there are many multi room AV solutions that are severely compromised in terms of video performance and as you are looking to drive HD displays then you need to consider solutions that will support 1080i or higher)
Also has you noted there is the issue of controlling it all centrally, can any screen watch any source, or are certain sources tied to specific screens? How do you prevent conflict between users controlling boxes that they are not actually viewing?

You are off to a great start though, getting a list together of your objectives early, you now need to work to get a specification in place so that the correct cabling can be installed during the renovation process. Our advice would be to put plenty of CAT5 cabling in from your central point to each of the locations that you are looking to have a screen sited, CAT5 is so cheap that it makes sense to put say at least 4 feeds per display and that way you have plenty of flexibility.

cheers

[vex]

James,

Completely agree with Daves comments, although I will warn you, that level of control and full HD distribution is not going to be cheap.

Personally, if you are installing new cables then run a few more for your computer network as well.

Wireless is going to become very crowded in the future in both 2.4 and the new 5Ghz ranges, if you have the option to stay away from it then do so.

[Joe Fernand]

Hello all

jasel - as others have said no need to go for 'bleeding edge' wiring to achieve what you want; you'll only end up being incompatible with lots of toys your going to find out about during your 'research' phase.

As David says the cost to implement what you require is going to be dictated by the level of integration you require - HD + Stereo audio to three rooms is standard fair over Analogue or Digital (jumping on and off of CAT5 if required - though not always necessary); see http://www.neothings.com/consumer.html

JamesAV - your biggest headache is controlling multiple SKY box's (especially if you collocate them all in a central rack) - if your happy to work with Analogue HD over CAT5 (no reason not to be) the Smart-e solution is the most elegant if you want a single hub that can deal with multiple SKY box's; see http://www.smart-e.co.uk/

Forget about wireless - its simply not ready at this time.

Joe

[JamesAV]

Thanks for the replies and advice.

I am not considering sending video wirelessly - just my internet connection.

Looking at the smart-e website, seems you need computers to control the network and that signals are analogue. Not sure if this is the right solution.

I am thinking of adjusting the complexity of the system given the problem of having multiple SKY boxes in the same location. Locally locating SKY boxes and distributing HD DVD.

I may centrally locate the lounge TV equipment and use a logitech RF remote to control SKY HD/DVD. Kitchen TV will have Sky SD (will I need to upscale to achieve good PQ? - screen size will be approx 42 inch). Bedroom TV will have local SKY HD box.

One thing that could swing centrally locating all SKY boxes is if I could use an RF remote (considering logitech harmony 890) for each TV - surely these will conflict with each other not knowing which SKY box to change?

[vex]

Global have launched a new Sky Eye system that will allow you to control upto 4 sky boxes individually over the same coax system.

Unfortunately I can not find any info on it at the moment, I'll contact Global for more details

Chris

Thanks for all your advice folks - will be meeting with one of the chaps from intelligent living in the next couple of weeks and will post back his advice too and see what you think. Thanks again...

[vex]

If it is Matt, Say hi from Chris White

He is one of the installers who we supply.

[Pocky]

Originally Posted by vex

There are several 'issues' with CAT8 systems.

The cable is incredibly difficult to handle and install, it has some tight tollerances, bend radius's and the connector is unique to the system.

That is natural to a highly shielded cable but a bending radius of a golf ball isn't that tight. And one should also be careful with Cat5/6 not to bend or stretch it, right?

Originally Posted by vex

The cable is not actually approved as an industry standard, Cat7 has only just been approved.

There is no Cat7 standard, it's called IEC 61156-7 multimedia. And it is the same with Cat8, it is only called Cat8 so people get a feeling of what it can do. Would you remember IEC 61156-7

Originally Posted by vex

Cat8 does not give you any great performance improvement for your data and telephone services only the fact that you can get TV (analogue) down it in its raw UHF format. 480Mhz - 862Mhz).

No, not on data and phone but video/TV. And that is the future demand or am I wrong? Having a single cable where I can change the usage at any time and pipe down signals up to 2.5 GHz without any electronic "conditioner" is a big plus.

Originally Posted by vex

You still have to design some of the system with Coax cable to be able to get the UHF, FM, DAB and Satellite signals down to the initial CAT8 distribution box.

Yes, but this is not the issue as you know. Distribution through the house is the name of the game, not incoming services to one central box

Originally Posted by vex

Even then CAT8 will not pass satellite frequencies so you still need coax to be able to feed any Sky boxes.

Wrong, see above

Originally Posted by vex

Personally there is nothing wrong a well designed Coax and Cat5e system. The Coax will pass all your UHF, FM, DAB and Satellite signals as well as any Sky IR instructions. Whilst the CAT5e canbe used to carry your Telephone, Data and Music signals.

Just the limitation that you can't connect a speaker, phone or PC to the coax socket. So instead of one structured cabling you have two individual nets.

Originally Posted by vex

Our installers offer such a kit, installed for between £3500 and £5000 depending on the system and work required.

Kerpen, BKS, singlepoint, IrishHomeNet and it's do the same

[vex]

Hi Pocky,

I think we will have to agree to disagree on this one. As per my reply to your CAT8 post on another thread.

Vex.

[Pocky]

@Vex, not necessary disagree but different point of fews. There is no single truth

[bigjoe7]

Hi all,

Sorry to hijack this thread (as it’s already been hijacked), but I’m looking at installing a similar system as what jamesAV has done. Basically my requirements are:-

3 new HD TVs, SKY HD or Virgin wired to all 3. I would like to be able to watch any channel from any TV. I would also like to stream AVI files from a central NAS to the TVs. How would i do this?

Music streamed in at least 5 rooms, Lounge, Dining room, kitchen, bedroom, bathroom etc.


The good news is I have pretty much run 4 runs of cat5e into every room from my garage. The garage will have a rack containing all the hardware (unless the sky box’s need to be near the TVs). The garage will have a stud wall erected between the garage door, so it will never be opened up. So all data cables emanate from the garage.


I have also run 2 coax cables to most rooms for TV, but they originate from the TV / sky box in the lounge. The house atm is being renervated, so i can make changes quite quickly.

Do i need to look at inserting speaker cable into the walls or can i solely get way with cat5e? Is the sound quality notable?

What systems do i need to buy in todo this?
I would appreciate some pointer. Conscious that these Qs are asked all the time.

regards...adrian

[MAW]

Get 4 coaxes to your lounge immediately, from a sky dish location, or else re route them all to the rack, ie 2 coaxes from rack to all rooms for TV, 4, probsably 6 coax from dish/aerials to rack. You could use a multiswitch for sky then, as you'll be wanting a box per TV or a HD distribution with 3 skly boxes in it! You must use speaker cable for speakers, it works so much better, and can alternatively be used to run LV supply for some multi room systems. Run cat5 with it, and you are re4asonably prepared for anything. On www.netstreams.com you'll find a .pdf with a wiring schematic, it's the industry standard, 99% oif MR systems will run on this wiring, get it in and choose a system later.