[gtcarling]

Unfortunately my wifes best friend was burgled last night, and i would like some advice on how they could of broke in through the upvc door. Basically they have upvc side door & front he couldnt get in the side but managed some how to jemmy the front door and gain access. I thought this couldnt be done because of the multi point locks on upvc doors, he tried the side door first but couldnt get in but managed the front. What could be the difference between the doors so that the front was easier to break into than the side. I thought drilling the cylinder or hammering a screwdriver in the cylinder would of been the only way, is there anyway of adding extra security to a upvc door internally. It was a thought out attack, thankfully they were only after the keys for her husbands car (£60,000 AUDI) which he found because otherwise he my have gone upstairs and threatened the children. The police responded very quickly and just missed them, the car was loaded with a top of the range tracker but guess what car could not be found. These kind of things make me sick especially when theres children in the house why can`t go and get a job and be honest like the rest of us instead of making life harder for everyone esle.

Thanks

[klr10]

Got burgled (again) the other night. 4am, they smashed the side door window (double glazed) with a garden spade. Glass all over the kitchen, nicked my 20inch LCD and Sony freeview box from the kitchen. Subwoofer from my cinema and various other bits and bobs before coming upstairs and going into the lodger's room. Scarpered when they saw him (used my keys from the coffee table to get out the front door.)

I have security lights all round the house, I leave loads of lights on at night, I have an alarm (but didn't used to set it when I'm in the house... will now!)

If they want to get in they will........

Just glad no-one was hurt

[gtcarling]

Seems like the only advice to give people nowadays is not to bother getting anything decent because some @##''#'# will come along and nick it. Trouble is i think nowadays seems to be happening to more people and more frequent. I know they will get in if they want to but that wont help the kids sleep thought there might be some additional locks they could put on the front door.

[fourfoot]

uPVC doors are pants security wise. Sure, they have lots of locking points, but the middle of the door is usually just polystyrene sandwiched between 2 bits of plastic, doesn't take much to punch through it.

Unfortunately, the most secure doors seem to be hardwood or composite with a night latch and deadlocks. Upvc panel doors are not much of a challenge to a determined burglar. There is plenty of give in them to distort given enough force, and without making a huge amount of noise. Our multi-point upvc locking patio doors were an easy way in when we were burgled a few years back. Attempting to jemmy a hardwood or composite door with deadlocks is going to attract a lot of attention. The best course of action might be to look for some new doors. There is a police approved scheme called "secure by design" which looks for certain specifications in the design. I would never touch anything made by the double glazing companies.

[DVD-Man]

Originally Posted by fourfoot

uPVC doors are pants security wise. Sure, they have lots of locking points, but the middle of the door is usually just polystyrene sandwiched between 2 bits of plastic, doesn't take much to punch through it.

Seen Police on a tv programme do this on an early morning raid, battering ram to the lower part just knocked it clean out, couple more hits to the frame and it buckled.

I'd take a look at entry points to your garden, make escaping with loot hazardous or put down gravel to giveaway prowlers.

Liam

[phillfyspoon]

Time for a dog.

Are house was entered and the dog heard him in the kitchen and warned us, so he got away with nothing. And in the next room was plasma's computers, dvd players etc

[Steven]

That's good advice. But not a golden retriever. If its like ours all it'd do is lick a burglar and wag its tail violently

[Dave]

Originally Posted by LFC_SL

That's good advice. But not a golden retriever. If its like ours all it'd do is lick a burglar and wag its tail violently

Indeed, my labrador would probably show them where I keep the cash then help them out the door with the plasma while thanking his lucky stars someone came to play with him.

[karkus30]

Security is always a fraught subject...........do what you can do and get well insured is the maxim.

Upvc doors and windows are notoriously easy to get past and its usually because the burglar has seen them being installed, so knows you have some money and as the house was left partially unattended with just the workmen present, then someone can easily walk up to where the work is going on and have a good butchers as the work camoflages his activities.

Any wealth left on show be it a car or other valued items is a window display for a burglar. Put the car away as soon as you get home or park it in the street (this way it is difficult to decide which house the car belongs to).

The usual points of entry are hidden away at the back of the house, security lighting can actually help a criminal see what he is doing while still hiding him from by standers. You can deter burglars by making sure that windows are secured and any easy access points are made more difficult by the addition of barriers which are flexible such as thorn bushes.

Alarms are the obvious way of making noise and its best to use vibration sensitive devices where they can be installed. This means the alarm is set off well before they actually gain entry.

I criminal entering when they know someone is at home is very determined, I have heard of one occasion when an occupant was threatened when someone boldy walked up to the door and demanded the keys to his car and the security bollard that was in the drive ! The threat was backed up by a baseball bat and the guy threw them the keys.

[INSOMANiAC]

Originally Posted by karkus30

I criminal entering when they know someone is at home is very determined,

Freudian slip?


The answer is simple, electronic lock pick. Or if hes a cheap skate, good old fashioned lock pick set. An electronic lock pick can open a multi point upvc door in around 2 seconds.

I know of burglars simply pushing the bottom panel out of upvc doors as, as has been said before, UPVC doors in general are crap, the multipoint locking mechanism makes people think the door is more secure even though it is all attached to one mechanisn so it might as well be one lock (of course, it is only one lock, with multiple bolts)

Get a deadbolt and a BS3621 thief resistant lock.


I have spent a lot of time studying locks, mainly because I dont have much of life.

[thfccambs]

Originally Posted by fourfoot

uPVC doors are pants security wise. Sure, they have lots of locking points, but the middle of the door is usually just polystyrene sandwiched between 2 bits of plastic, doesn't take much to punch through it.

Locked myself out saturday,got those doors you mentioned and it took me less then 5 mins to get in

[Knyght_byte]

dont paint the front of the house for 14 years, have a early 90's Ford Fiesta in the drive.....make sure the sidegate is manky and rotten looking, dont have an alarm and have loads of half mulched cardboard boxes obviously visible through the mostly shattered garage windows....you'll never get burgled!

everyone around us has been burgled, guess what, they all got fancy looking locks, doors, security lights and alarms........yet most have nothing but furniture in their houses and bog standard 28in CRT's and Dixons bought Hifi.......if only the burglers knew the one house they are not targeting is the one they should be....ie the one with an aladdins cave of AV gear in it...lol

(mind you, given the weight of some of this stuff, they'd be on the floor with aching backs by the time they got even half of it out...heh)

[Ayub]

Originally Posted by gtcarling

Unfortunately my wifes best friend was burgled last night, and i would like some advice on how they could of broke in through the upvc door. Basically they have upvc side door & front he couldnt get in the side but managed some how to jemmy the front door and gain access. I thought this couldnt be done because of the multi point locks on upvc doors, he tried the side door first but couldnt get in but managed the front. What could be the difference between the doors so that the front was easier to break into than the side. I thought drilling the cylinder or hammering a screwdriver in the cylinder would of been the only way, is there anyway of adding extra security to a upvc door internally. It was a thought out attack, thankfully they were only after the keys for her husbands car (£60,000 AUDI) which he found because otherwise he my have gone upstairs and threatened the children. The police responded very quickly and just missed them, the car was loaded with a top of the range tracker but guess what car could not be found. These kind of things make me sick especially when theres children in the house why can`t go and get a job and be honest like the rest of us instead of making life harder for everyone esle.

Thanks

I'm very sorry to hear about your friends loss. Thieves have to honor and fact of the matter if they did they would not be going through your back door.
The yard stick i use when buying any equipment for my house ( i am now looking for a dvr cctv system) Remove all boxes and keep them. This apllies to all good expensive a/v equipment. I was amwazed 1 week after xmas when i was driving round the localilty i could tell me what people have bought and from where. Some even had reciept pinned to the boxes. This as you are well aware dores not help in any way.

Anyway I relieved that the children were not hurt.

If you ask me, twice is enough. Lock them up and give the key to the victim! Make them work for it in prison. We are always ranting on about cheap imports why not get these guys to make them in prison money earned goes back to the victim as a genture of compensation.

[buzlightyear]

We are getting a front door fitted which has a insurance with it, basically if someone breaks in through the front door, they will pay us £1000 damages. Im sure there will be some small print which means they will only give us a tenner but at least the thought is there.

Not sure if they still have to do this, but dont the police have to setup tracker aerials on their police car (this is only from watching Road Wars ) so by the time they have put down there doughnuts the crims are already miles away.

[Bat-man]

Originally Posted by monkey69

Unfortunately, the most secure doors seem to be hardwood or composite with a night latch and deadlocks...

Not quite. We have a steel door set into a steel frame which is built into the surrounding wall. The door has deadlocks.

[Jenn]

There used to be a program on TV (UKTV channel?) where they had an "experienced ex burglar" coming to someone's house and showing them how long it took him to burgle them.
Then they'd give advice on how to reduce the risks.

Things like a locked gate, a good fence in a good state of repair, gravel all around the house, flower pots attached just under windows, windows with locks etc. would all help deter a burglar.
The rule was to make it obvious that it'd be more difficult to break in to your house rather than someone else's.

Also never leave any tool like spades, ladders etc. outside because it can help them get in.

[Jammyb]

The thing that really worries me about being burgled is they won't take the things I want to upgrade.

Are they really gonna steal my 32" CRT? Because it weighs a ton.... Likewise with my sub. No they're going to steal the light stuff mostly likely

I shall have to hide the rest

I have a different attitude to being robbed to most people, our garage was broken into 3 times in a year when I was growing up, each time I got a better bike out of it

A good 'new for old' insurance policy is better than all the deadbolts and rottweilers in the world for my money.

[mad_matt]

I find my 2 dogs to be the best burglar alarm. Several times in the summer I went to work and left the back door open, amazingly all my stuff was still there. Mind you I pity anyone foolish enough to take the dogs on, they both weight about 30Kgs and have all their own teeth!

[Nobber22]

Originally Posted by Ayub

If you ask me, twice is enough. Lock them up and give the key to the victim! Make them work for it in prison. We are always ranting on about cheap imports why not get these guys to make them in prison money earned goes back to the victim as a genture of compensation.

Absolutely!! This is something that the Home Office should take on board and get out there and...........oh! Never mind.

[mrtbag]

Originally Posted by Bat-man

Not quite. We have a steel door set into a steel frame which is built into the surrounding wall. The door has deadlocks.

What are you doing your stretch for?

[GrahamC]

Originally Posted by mrtbag

What are you doing your stretch for?

yeah .... Norman Stanley Fletcher, you have been ....

[Bat-man]

Originally Posted by mrtbag

What are you doing your stretch for?

But it makes sense to me.

[Ayub]

Originally Posted by mad_matt

I find my 2 dogs to be the best burglar alarm. Several times in the summer I went to work and left the back door open, amazingly all my stuff was still there. Mind you I pity anyone foolish enough to take the dogs on, they both weight about 30Kgs and have all their own teeth!

Throw a bone or a slab of meat laced with sleeping stuff and they are sound asleep. This practise is used in Pakistan.

[Mr.D]

Originally Posted by Ayub

Throw a bone or a slab of meat laced with sleeping stuff and they are sound asleep. This practise is used in Pakistan.

Your opportunistic burglar isn't going to wait for the drugs to take effect. He's also not going to be carrying a couple of pounds of laced fillet in his back pocket.

Leave a light on. That will deter 90% of burglars unless you've been specifically targeted. And make sure they can't see or reach through the letterbox.

[Daddy k]

yep the upvc doors usually with nice pretty glass or someother inlay are pants! they flex too much so the latches etc slip out
an example i have 1st hand is me and a mate were leaning on his mums new windows and doors, and was seeing how good they were coz look how many locks the door has! (we were like 14 at the time, upvc was all new and amazing then lol) when suddenly and without much force the intire centre section popped straight out!

the frame was fine! but that dont matter when theres a 1ft by 3ft hole in the mifddle lol, get one of the metal skinned ones, thats what weve got, very heavy firedoor style, doesnt budge so will resist the more crude quick attacks

[Jenn]

Originally Posted by Mr.D

Your opportunistic burglar isn't going to wait for the drugs to take effect. He's also not going to be carrying a couple of pounds of laced fillet in his back pocket.

Happened to us in a different country. 2 german sheperds in the garden at all time; they used to throw themselves against the gates with their head (and teeths) between the bars if anyone who wasn't in the family came to close to the pavement. We found quite a few shoes and bits of trousers in the garden some mornings.
But one morning we found that quite a lot of some expensive equipment was missing from the garage.
The dogs never even barked and we believe they were given sleeping pills.

[Mylo]

Originally Posted by Daddy k

get one of the metal skinned ones, thats what weve got, very heavy firedoor style, doesnt budge so will resist the more crude quick attacks

I would definitely recommend this course of action. After getting burgled twice I went for the high security option. Aluminium door, triple laminate glass and steel reinforcement inside the main areas of the door. Metal frame as well
Looks very pretty but could withstand serious punishment.

My previous hi quality wooden door and top quality locks nearly stopped the last burglars.
Unfortunately they rammed through it using a fridge

that a neighbour had left out by the bins

[partyweb]

Originally Posted by mad_matt

...Mind you I pity anyone foolish enough to take the dogs on, they both weight about 30Kgs and have all their own teeth!

So that would be Mad_Matt's mad mutts.

[Knyght_byte]

Originally Posted by Jenn

There used to be a program on TV (UKTV channel?) where they had an "experienced ex burglar" coming to someone's house and showing them how long it took him to burgle them.
Then they'd give advice on how to reduce the risks.

Things like a locked gate, a good fence in a good state of repair, gravel all around the house, flower pots attached just under windows, windows with locks etc. would all help deter a burglar.
The rule was to make it obvious that it'd be more difficult to break in to your house rather than someone else's.

Also never leave any tool like spades, ladders etc. outside because it can help them get in.

as i said in my previous post, the more you make it look like you have something to protect, the more determined they will be to get in......none of this stuff would really stop a burglar.......they are not pot bellied men in stripey jumpers as the cartoons make out.......
most can scale a 7ft gate in a second or so......flower pot under a window? err, lift it up and move it or use it to stand on......locks on windows? thats an insurance thing......any grown man could hit a window frame hard enough to destroy a lock.......and the toughened glass they use in PVC windows makes it even easier because it doesnt shatter in a load of noise....lol......

not leaving tools around is probably the only advice worth anything.......btw i did watch that show once or twice......

alarms make no sense, nobody reacts to them......they only show you are worried about something stealing something expensive from your house.....

get good insurance, dont make your place look amazingly expensive and protected.....