[ajm007]

I am looking into replacing my cctv camera which i bought about 7 years ago.

I am looking for a camera-

For outdoor use
With good night vision
Clear picture at upto 40 feet
With sound
Also would like something to record onto with good picture quality,but camera is main priority.The cheaper the better.

ps.Prefer not to go the pc route or wireless.

[ajm007]

Anyone??

[ZippyCat]

I assume you are looking at replacing a camera on a property, and not a commercial building?

As you are using the camera outside, I would recommend one that is at least IP54 rated, however IP66 or greater would be preferable.

As you are looking after good nighttime use, you should be looking at day/night (colour/mono) cameras. The mono aspect allows you to use a suitable IR illuminator to discretely illuminate the scene, be it an external unit or an integral unit. LED illuminators are starting to provide reasonable performance, plus also have the added benefit of reduce maintenance and running costs.

The minimum resolution you want to be looking at is 480 lines in colour and 570 lines in monochrome, although cameras are starting to appear at the lower end of the market in higher resolutions e.g. 500 lines colour, 580 lines monochrome.

Sound is the awkward request; most cameras do not provide this, and most certainly do not at the medium to high-end range. You could purchase a separate microphone board, but personally I wouldn’t bother as they severe little use.

I also believe you are taking the correct stance with not wanting to go the PC route for recording. IMO standalone DVR’s are far superior to the PC based models for most applications (other than very large sites).

You could try taking a look at a few of these sites, which provide reasonable CCTV equipment for the low end of the market. I generally prefer the vandal resistant dome type models for domestic installations, as they are a little more discrete without looking Mickey Mouse:

http://www.rfconcepts.co.uk/cctv.htm

http://www.henrys.co.uk/cctv.htm

http://www.ezcctv.com/index.html

http://www.digitalvideos.co.uk/

http://www.iviewcameras.co.uk/

At the professional end the following:

http://www.sovereigncctv.co.uk/

http://www.norbain.com/

[hornydragon]

are you prepared to replace the wiring or do you want to stick with existing (coax?) you can get HDD based recorders with 4 inputs (basically a Quad processor with HDD recording for £160 ish (+HDD) it depends alot on the situation and how discrete/overt you want the CCTV to be

[ajm007]

@ZippyCat
Yes i am looking at replacing a camera on a property.I still want to have the sound function and would be greatfull for any info on how this can be done with the use of a seperate camera.Thanks for the links i will take a look.

@hornydragon
I am prepared to replace the wiring if needs be.I would like the idea of a HDD based recorder but i can only seem to find ones for multiple cameras,which would be wasted as i only need the input for one.

[hornydragon]

I think they are as cheap to make with 4 inputs as one (much more popular) you could go for one with 4 inputs and then use 1 day camera and a seperate night one better results but higher cost

[ZippyCat]

I must say I wouldn’t go the two camera route myself; you are much better off going with a decent standalone day/night camera.

On the audio side of things, try searching for PCB audio boards which can often be mounted within enclosures, or alternatively you could try:

http://www.henrys.co.uk/cctv/mpa12.htm

There are also some cameras which incorporate audio boards such as:

http://www.henrys.co.uk/cctv/guardian.htm

http://www.henrys.co.uk/cctv/colourircamera.htm

However as I said above, cameras with integral audio tend to be at the entry level, and I wouldn’t recommend either of the above cameras for decent picture quality. Ultimately you end up compromising the picture quality for the feature of audio. On the recording side of things, most low end DVR’s offer a single channel input for audio recording. Please note that the playback of audio from DVR’s can often be sporadic, as DVR processors tend to prioritise picture over audio i.e. periods where sudden movement is detected, audio drop out is frequently experienced.

[ajm007]

@hornydragon
I would prefer to just have one camera.Are all the 4 input ones the same or should i be looking for a certain type?

@ZippyCat
I am now looking for a decent standalone day/night camera as you suggest.Thanks for the links you posted the first one(Microphone) looks like a poosiblity but just wondering how it connects to the power supply,but the second one needs extra lighting and the third is not suitable for where i need it outside.I am undecided on what to go for now as i would really like to have sound aswell as good picture.Are DVR processors intended for short use or can they be used for continous recording?Would i be better getting a dvr or just a hdd recorder?

[ZippyCat]

One important difference between domestic and CCTV recording equipment is that CCTV equipment is designed to run around the clock for 365 days a year. I you use a cheap VCR unit for example, I guarantee the unit would become faulty within a month or so, not to mention the constant change of tapes i.e. 3 times daily. Providing you buy a purpose made DVR unit, you should have no problems whatsoever.

[ajm007]

Do DVR units run constantly? Also would this be the same with hdd recorders?

[ZippyCat]

Go with a dedicated DVR unit, PVR’s are not suitable for a number of reasons including reliability & compliance with the DPA.

[ZippyCat]

Opps I didn’t answer the first question; DVR’s do run continuously, however it is possible to configure them to only record upon detection of movement. The best type of configuration is a slower frame rate when no motion is detected, and an increased frame rate upon detection of movement to conserve memory.

[ajm007]

I need something that will record constantly and be able to output through coax as in aerial to tv.Can you suggest something along these lines if there is one?

http://www.rfconcepts.co.uk/digital-recorder.htm

The R200 is first class,i've fitted a few and had no problems.

As Zippy says best to set it up for motion detection on a high frame rate,then your not wasting hdd space.

They are configurable on motion etc, so you can set the sensitivity and also mask areas off so when the wind blows trees/plants it will not record.

You can also add an external usd hdd to give you a bit extra , probaly 4/5 weeks of recording depending on activity.

All dvr's will work with a coax lead to your monitor, you will just have to terminate the cable suitable,normally bnc or rca which can be done using "f" connectors .

Camera's can be a minefield, on the RF concepts page have a look at the CC70 camera,these are really good and will see in total darkness, again as zippy mentions they have built in ir which can attract spiders webs but its only a wipe with a feather duster now and again.Even if they are mounted high,just tie it to a stick...

[ZippyCat]

In general standard CCTV cameras & DVR’s output composite video feeds which can either be plugged directly into you TV via the appropriate adapter (RCA or SCART), or can be converting to RF frequencies through an ‘RF Modulator’. If for example you have an aerial loft box for your TV distribution, it would be prudent to feed the CCTV through this via an RF Modulator, so that each TV connected on the network is capable of tuning into the CCTV. In terms of overall picture quality, composite video feeds will be far superior to that of RF; as is always the case with AV. In my house I have a mixture of both whereby the dedicated CCTV monitors are connected to the composite video feeds, and the televisions are connected to the RF feeds via my loft box.

[ajm007]

The R200 is first class

It does sound good but a bit more than i would like to pay.

The only reason i want the ability of coax output is just for viewing on tv.s around the home.I do have a similar method as yours ZippyCat.

[ZippyCat]

Although it may be more than you are willing to pay, you are not going to find a DVR solution for less, that you should even contemplate. On the scale of things the R200 is still at the entry level of the market, but a good place to start; most commercial grade DVR’s tend to cost in excess of £3.5k for a 16-camera installation.

[ajm007]

Looks like i will have to do a bit more saving then for my new setup,now all i need to do is find a solution to the camera and mic problem.

Totally agree with Zippy, many cameras that are advertised with integrated audio are often entry level and tend to offer lesser video quality. Most decent quality surveillance cameras and DVRs are built primarily for video capture. For good quality audio I would recommend running a separate mic, again the recording is still an issue as you will need to find a DVR with at least 1 video input and as Zippy says recording can be erratic.

AK

[ajm007]

Still looking into this.I have realised that my budget may be off a little.I am now looking for a dvr unit that has input for at least one audio channel and outputs through composite (RCA).Also needs to be able to continous recording.

I will be going to use an RF modulator to convert the signal to my tv's through a box in the loft.

[ajm007]

Anyone??

[ajm007]

Still looking

[ajm007]

It has been a while now and i still haven't got this sorted,so anyone able to help?

Still looking into the DVR solution and have now realised that my budget would have to be around the £300 mark.I am now looking for a unit with the following features...

• Upto 4 cameras (Will now be using 2)
• 2 audio in and 1 out
• Cdr/rw backup
• With hdd although without and the ability to add one
• Continous recording

I would also like to know What the ratio is for continous recording is (IE mb per hour).Also is it possible to output 2 seperate channels for viewing on 2 different tv channels?

[JagoPlasma]

AJM although it may be out of your budget, look at the post i made here.
CCTV Help / Advice

as regarding sound, it really is a grey area and you should contact the information commisioner about doing this as listening to things is alot different to watching things in the eyes of the law.

hope it helps

dvrs do continuous record.
you can have all cameras outputting but youd need av ports(scart blocks) or multiple rf modulators per each camera

[hornydragon]

I recenlty had a play with some Panasonic IP cameras Pic is very good easy to set up and can be remotely viewed (some have built in SD cards for recording) They come with the operation software and DVR software is available not sure if this helps much but have a look at the panny cameras (much cheaper than other IP cams) http://www.panasonic.co.uk/ip-cameras/products.html

[JagoPlasma]

id be interested to hear more on your oppinion of IP cameras, i am dabbling in the idea of trying them out myself but dont like the fact your limited to the camera and lense they put on them (which is usually rubbish for external cctv)

[ZippyCat]

I must admit I’m still to be convinced by IP cameras. In general you need a separate infrastructure that is independent to the normal IT network as it’s too demanding to run both via the same active equipment. I do however see the advantage of Cat5e / Cat6 and baluns if an existing cable infrastructure is to be used (best of both worlds).

[ajm007]

@JagoPlasma

Very informative and usefull info but do you have any links for such cameras?

you can have all cameras outputting but youd need av ports(scart blocks) or multiple rf modulators per each camera

does that mean that dvrs can output 4 channels seperatley to be tuned in on a tv on 4 seperate channels?

I really do want sound on one camera as there is a lot of verbal harrassment going on at the moment which is being passed onto the local council.

Also thatnks for the other info guys but i would prefer not to go with the IP cameras route.

[JagoPlasma]

Unfortunately i source cameras through trade companies, but you can normally bag some good bargains on ebay.
I really would recommend watec for great day and night usage. the strength of the LUX you will need all depends on if you want to buy illuminators or have streetlamps (be careful as you will need to compensate if the streetlamps are yellow, i can tell you how to do that too)

onto your second question, most dvrs have a loopout on the back for each input, it is basically the same as a Y splitter

and back to sound, you will really have to do some ringing round to find out what you can do, because if you pick up peoples conversations that are not on your property (or even if they are) you can get in alot of trouble

good luck

[ajm007]

Thanks for the quick reply.I would prefer not to use Ebay and i will certainly look into the watec cameras although i don't know if they have sound.I am looking into getting on at the front of my property which does have some light from my wall lanterns and one to the rear of the house of which has zero light and in total darkness as it backs onto a school field.

Back to the DVR question but i still seem confused, will this mean that both cameras can be output from the dvr to tv just like Tv channels (So i can tune them in to 2 different ch on the tv?

I have asked Police about the sound issue and they said as long as your main purpose is for video footage then it is ok.