[GraceCourt]

Some while back I perused the forums prior to selecting an intelligent lighting control system for my new build house. In the end, I chose Nikobus, as for me it seemed to offer the most flexible and comprehensive technical features, although the obvious "negatives" were that it is not available direct to house self-builders (even though neither the technical aspects nor electrical safety were an issue for me due to my formal qualifications), and it's expensive.

Long story short, it could be an excellent system but it has been a disappointment on a number of counts, some of them inexcusable. One of the more serious problems is that it is designed for European electrical hardware, so when the PCBs for the switch modules are installed on to a UK wall box, there is very little overlap by the PCB over the box, and it's not possible to secure them tightly enough, because UK 4.5mm (electrical) bolts have tapered faces inder the head, and as they are tightened on the slots in the thin PCB, it places mechanical stress on the board that will split it if tightened further... and those PCBs are £15 for a single and £25 for a double!

Worse... when I purchased some sample items to look at and use for reference, the electrical screws were included, but when my bulk order arrived - costing many thousands of pounds! - to my horror, no screws were included, and as the build is in a remote location, I couldn't even start installing anything for some days until I could purchase these. Only a few pounds-worth of M4.5 screws but days lost because these aren't included, despite costing only pennies.

But the real problem is not the electronics, it's the quality of the other fittings. A plastic surround costs £15 for a single and £22 for a double, and the buttons about a fiver... but these are mass-produced thermoplastic, costing pennies to make... and they really do look like it. As the visible elements of what should be a luxury product, one that is priced as such, they are almost an embarrassment.

And a final piece of advice if you do choose Nikobus anyway... even if you are installing into plasterboard, don't use plastic cavity wallboxes, stick with dwangs and metal boxes, because otherwise the plastic lip of the box will be visible underneath the Niko wall switch. But like I said, it's difficult to securely fix the switch PCB on a metal box anyway without subjecting it to stresses that can break it, so it's the devil and the deep blue sea, I'm afraid.

Niko need to bite the bullet and produce PCBs and decorative fittings that are fit for purpose with UK wall boxes and with a finish that matches the price. I would dearly love to be a fly on the wall when, having paid tens of thousands of pounds for a Nikobus installation in their home, a wealthy customer sees the existing wall switches for the first time...

[S D I]

Without knowing the Nikobus system I read through your post and can understand your disappointment.
You appear to have similar high standards to me so I am very sympathetic.
One thing that stuck out was the plastic cavity back box problem you have where the edge is visible.
I come across this problem from time to time and solve it by machining the edges back to less than the size of
face plate.
Presuming you don't have machinery to do this if you PM. me and send a front plate and some plastic back boxes I will sort them for you FOC.
If you look through my other posts you will find photos featuring my installations with face plates I manufacture for my own jobs.
Perhaps you could send me a couple of good quality blank plates that you like the look of in metal or plastic.
I will see if I can knock up a keypad incorporating the Nikobus buttons that looks good as a starting point to a permanent solution.
I am also sure I could also think of something for the PCB. fixing problem if I understood it fully.

I am always delighted to help like minded people.

Steve

[GraceCourt]

Originally Posted by stevedilworth

Presuming you don't have machinery to do this if you PM. me and send a front plate and some plastic back boxes I will sort them for you FOC.
...
Perhaps you could send me a couple of good quality blank plates that you like the look of in metal or plastic.
I will see if I can knock up a keypad incorporating the Nikobus buttons that looks good as a starting point to a permanent solution.

Thanks Steve, your offer is very generous. However, I've continued with the metal boxes, and (I appreciate that you aren't familiar with Nikobus) this system doesn't actually use a typical faceplate (see below). The flimsy plastic switch buttons actually clip on to the switch signalling mechanism, or "actor", as it is known in Nikobus parlance, and the plastic surround fits over the whole assembly.

This schematic also shows how the PCB fits into the scheme of things - it is fastened on to the wall box with two standard M4.5 electrical screws, these screws passing through the teardrop-shaped slots, and it is these slots that are of poor design. As you can see, they allow the PCB to be removed without actually removing the screws, but at a cost - the shape of the slot means that if any attempt is made to fasten the screws tightly, the taper under the head of the screw creates a lateral force that can split the PCB. One way to resolve this would be to use an appropriately-sized washer, but this then transfers the stresses on to the edges of the PCB where they (only very slightly) overlap the wall box. But as the PCB has slots rather than holes, it can move laterally, and if it does, it is no longer supported by the edges of the wall box and drops inside it.

Hence, my criticism of the design insofar as the system is used in the UK... If I understand correctly, continental wall boxes are circular, so the PCB cannot fall into them and the back of the PCB is supported by the wall itself.

[S D I]

I see. Yes I understand the PCB issue now. Washers and rubber grommets are the answer I think.
It is possible to use a typical faceplate re engineering everything by milling out a square in a regular blank to replace the plastic surround providing the buttons are not larger than 60mm horizontally (on a 1 gang plate).
Of course if the buttons are cheap looking it may or may not improve the look.
Shame though, lot of work when you purchased everything in good faith.

[GraceCourt]

Originally Posted by stevedilworth

It is possible to use a typical faceplate re engineering everything by milling out a square in a regular blank to replace the plastic surround providing the buttons are not larger than 60mm horizontally (on a 1 gang plate).

Trouble is, there would be nothing to hold it on if it didn't provide a snug mechanical fit over the PCB... remember, in the intended arrangement, the M4.5 screws secure the PCB, and the heads of these are underneath the (cheap-looking, but not cheap!) clip-on plastic surround. If these M4.5 screws were instead used to secure a conventional faceplate, one that has been milled out in the way that you describe, there would probably be a need for the washers to which you refer to act also as shims, to pad out the exact required thickness to hold the PCB firmly without either making the faceplate sit proud of the wall surface at one extreme, or leave the PCB loose underneath the faceplate at the other extreme.

Very inventive - and thank you again for your helpful enthusiasm! - but I think we will just have to grin and bear it...

[S D I]

All correct.
Yes I propose a universal solution which would be a shim arrangement that would allow you to fit any standard single or double faceplate milled out accordingly and secure the PCB. faithfully.
If you have a spare PCB and button unit I will have a play if you like.
Always like a challenge.
If you look at photos in my post in this section headed 'How do you use home automation systems?' you will see
what I did with some AC controllers.

[vex]

The additional problem was that the importer didn't really care.

And Niko didn't either, their market is Europe in big numbers, so the reworking just for the small numbers sold in the UK is not worth the tooling costs. What should have happened is that you should have been supplied or told to buy the Euro Back Boxes which are a little smaller and obviously designed to work with their plates.

Sorry to hear you woes, Niko closed the sales / distribution office in the UK earlier this year so hopefully which ever new company picks the import / distribution up will care a little more to help.

Which ever, the likes of me and Stevedilworth as engineers / custom installers thrive on this sort of issue resolving just for the sheer challenge, even if it makes us no money.

Good Luck and thanks for raising the issues for others.

V.

[S D I]

Well said Vex