[Russtavo]

I'm about to buy my first house and it needs a complete electrical rewire so I'm planning my lighting scheme. Things I want are:

- Dimmer controls (operating by touch and IR remote)
- Low costs
- Future proof
- Energy Saving

I like the idea of dimmable LED downlighters, though I understand this is not straightforward - problem is I'm very ignorant about Electrics so I have no idea if the kit I'm looking at are all "compatible". Like to get some brains on this

The VARILIGHT Remote Control and Touch Dimmers look like the ideal controls - the cost from TLC Direct seems reasonable - SEE HERE

The docs suggests for best results with Low Voltage Lighting, use VARILIGHT Low Voltage Transformers. I'm not sure their transformers would drive LED downlighters? However I discovered that Aurora make Dimmable Constant Current LED Drivers:

AU-LEDD48CC 1-16 x 3W Dimmable 700mA Constant Current LED Driver

AU-LEDD16CC 1-18W Dimmable 350mA Constant Current LED Driver

Alternatively there is also the Dialight Lumidrives VariLED dimmable 16-LED driver

I want mostly downlighters in the house and Aurora make LED ones which they specify as being dimmable:

AU-DLED301 350mA 1W LED Aluminium Fixed LED Downlight

It states that you should use their own AU-DSPLED dimmer unit but these are just rotary knobs. Do you think the VARILIGHT dimmers would work ok with this? Does anyone have better suggestions for the kit or am I am being foolish going down the LED route? Thanks to all!

[hornydragon]

To control LED properly is a lot more involved than controlling an incandescent bulb also if your rewiring then you can fit a proper lighting control system.

A word of warning every room i have ever seen with LED only lighting is terrible some clioents who had LED lighting throughout I(not installed or specced by us) have asked us to RIP it out and fit 12V halogen to at least 50% of the fittings for feature liginting LED is good for ambient light its poor.

[Russtavo]

Thanks for the advice. It's only a small house but maybe I should just use LEDs for feature lighting. Hmmm I need to see them in the flesh really. Is there anyone out there happy with their LED downlighters?

[dbaplaya]

i brought some LED bulbs from B&Q and ended up taking them back as they were very dim. Ok for feature lighting or use where bright light is not needed.

[Russtavo]

Before I give up on LEDs altogether, has anyone experience of these downlighters by Collingwood:

Collingwood - LL030 Flood / Spot

They would be appear to be more suitable than the Aurora's as they are brighter with a greater "flood" angle (and dimmable of course). They might just fit the bill.

[hornydragon]

Dimmable by 1-10V and push to make only though

[Russtavo]

Originally Posted by hornydragon

Dimmable by 1-10V and push to make only though

I think I understand what you mean now, the LED driver needs an input voltage of 1-10v, problem being that apart from a few basic rotary ones, IR dimmers output upto 230v, is that right? In that case would the following bit of kit overcome this problem?:

Lutron GRX-TVI Control Interface Phase Control to 0-10V

[Russtavo]

Found a great source of info for LED lighting including dimming:

http://www.hankselectric.net/pdf/Lut...LEDControl.pdf

[hornydragon]

Originally Posted by Russtavo

I think I understand what you mean now, the LED driver needs an input voltage of 1-10v, problem being that apart from a few basic rotary ones, IR dimmers output upto 230v, is that right? In that case would the following bit of kit overcome this problem?:

Lutron GRX-TVI Control Interface Phase Control to 0-10V

Yes but you may need a Graphic eye to use it pretty much all proper lighting control systems have a 1-10V interface you just need the lighting control system Rako, Mode, Helvar etc

[Russtavo]

Looks like your right HornyDragon, you need a Lutron Grafik Eye. Specifically the Grafik Integrale will do the business. But have you seen their prices?

Found another solution - would like some thoughts on - it's called Respondalight. It uses standard ethernet to power the fitting. There's a good thread on it here:

low energy led

Looks promising....

[hornydragon]

Its not ethernet it uses Cat5 as an interconnect (probably DMX based) and has RF remote by the looks of it so wont work with IR

[Russtavo]

No, it's definitely IR, and I've been informed they do work with the Varilight dimmers - I will speak to them about that.

I did of course mean "ethernet cable" i.e. twisted pair.

[hornydragon]

Originally Posted by Russtavo

No, it's definitely IR, and I've been informed they do work with the Varilight dimmers - I will speak to them about that.

You're right it is IR remote (rare and unusual in lighting systems asa line of sight sensor is required assume its built into the occupancy sensor)

Interested to here is they do work with varilight and how they are connected

[robh2002]

Just to point out that it is possible to get decent LED bulbs, but you won't find them at B&Q. I have a number of luxeon based lights in the bathroom and a single 50W halogen - down from 5 50W halogens. The luxeons are GU10 3W output - but are certainly not 50W halogen replacements - more light 15-20W halogen. I have a 5W luxeon type on oprder and will post when I get the chance to test it.

Interesting post - in our planned extension I want to do exactly the same thing...

[aberdeenpaul]

Hi,
I have just rewired my house and putting in mostly 9W LED downlights thoughout the whole house.Too me they seem bright enough and i think i am using only about 1000W.
I have not put in the lights just yet as house is just getting painted, hopefully it will be finished in the next few weeks so will try to get pictures up.
Also there are phase controlled dimmable drivers out there for using a normal trailing edge dimmer switch. But they are only 15W, but in august i know of a company releasing a 42W dimmable driver (traic controlled), so will be putting this in when ready.

[Russtavo]

I'm tempted to agree with Rob about decent LEDs, if you look at those produced by Luxeon, Cree, Osram etc. Aberdeenpaul, I'm curious to know which drivers are you refering? Do you have any links?

The Respondalight LEDs are made by Cree, these are the full specs:

http://www.led-lightbulbs.co.uk/imag..._datasheet.pdf

Hornydragon, you asked how they were connected. They sent me a wiring diagram that shows each LED connected to their own individual driver, each of which connect to the dimmer(s). The Varilight's are trailing edge and have been tested to work. This single-kit setup differs from the master-kit/slave-kit ones on their website which has master/slave controllers and PSUs. Looking at the above datasheet it appears they use Lumotech drivers, which look identical to the Dialight ones (same company?). They do include Mains dimmable drivers for use with trailing edge dimmers:

Lumotech Drivers

Yes, the Dialight Lumidrive MND70121MLN Minidim is identical to the Lumotech L05021 MINIDIM
Aberdeenpaul, is this what you were refering to?

The Collingwood PLD 350 1-16 Dimmable driver looks to be a re-badged version of one of these. I called Collingwood by the way and they claimed you can use their PLD 1-16's with any dimmer so long as it's 0-10v trailing edge (not sure whether that's really true).

I'm waiting for a sample from LED and driver from Respondalight so I'll report back how it goes.

[ConstantCurrent]

Further to your mail, I have seen some dimmable LED 350mA Series wired from a company called Aurora, see link for AU-LEDD16CC

Aurora - 'Passionate about Lighting'

Which seem to do Ok, according to their Web though they have just started doing some 700mA Dimmable drivers too AU-LEDD48CC

Aurora - 'Passionate about Lighting'

I used the former on some cree marker LED's which were self contained in a fitting, if I had held on I could have used the 700mA ones which should be a lot brighter.

Hope this helps.

[ConstantCurrent]

opps maybe I should have read a bit more than Scan reading....

The 700mA should give out much more light than the 350mA but will likely have a shorter lifespan. I haven't used much of the collingwood ones but I would guess they would work in a similar way. Every LED (Dimmable) I have seen uses 1-10v, most lighting controls have add on modules to cover these but some need to be 'tweeked' to recognise the circuit.

I saw that Aurora did have a lamp replacement 'module' available AU-MOD533 but is quite expensive, so all the cost is up front and the cost savings work out over time.

I haven't yet been asked to wire a house with LED, but I am sure it is not far off. Philips reportedly spent 1.35bn USD a year or so back on LED companies and I have seen a lamp or two from these guys which will start to become more main stay.

At the moment though have been adding supplimentary lighting in to compensate the low level of LED output.

[hornydragon]

Originally Posted by Russtavo

Hornydragon, you asked how they were connected. They sent me a wiring diagram that shows each LED connected to their own individual driver, each of which connect to the dimmer(s). The Varilight's are trailing edge and have been tested to work. This single-kit setup differs from the master-kit/slave-kit ones on their website which has master/slave controllers and PSUs. Looking at the above datasheet it appears they use Lumotech drivers, which look identical to the Dialight ones (same company?). They do include Mains dimmable drivers for use with trailing edge dimmers:

Ah on thats different to most which dont have a driver per Lamp but a driver per circuit. A driver per lamp makes them more suitable for retro fit applications but more expensive.