[beduin]

Hello

I am after some advice on LED downlights for an open plan area in a barn conversion, after much deliberation I had largely decided to go with Low Voltage 35W Halogen but in an effort to reduce running cost and be a little greener I am considering LED's. I think they are the way of the future but are they there yet?

The area is approximately 12m x 5m with a ceiling height of about 2.2m, it will have a total of 36 downlights. The lighting is split into seven circuits, each having 4 or 6 downlights, I plan to use the Clipsal Ulti wireles range of switches to control it all and set scenes throughout. Oh and just to make it more difficult they need to be dimmable.

I have struggled to find a lighting shop or electrician in the area with sufficient knowledge of LED's and so I would be grateful for any advice and experiences that people have had using LED's as main lighting and for advice on the best fittings to use and their type as I am now totally confused as to how they should be fitted and powered, (LV fittings and use or bin the included transformer?, LV fittings without a transformer and use a transformer for each circuit? etc, etc)

So far I have found the following that potentially could be suitable:

Dimmable Only - by Ultra Leds U.K

EcoLEDLighting :: EcoLEDLighting Dimmable LED Luminaire

DiamondLED Respondalight Systems

DiamondLED Respondalight Systems

MR16 LED Spotlights - LedEcoLights, the LED Eco Lighting & low energy lightbulb specialists

Thank you in advance for your advice, comments, sugestions.

[BradG]

I have recently discovered a new range which is just fantastic and you should certainly take the time to have a good long look. I couldnt believe just how bright these were.. but having said that, each LED is capable of 1W

It is made by Tryka
Tryka L.E.D. Ltd - Home

Now the one i would like to discuss briefly is the Module 3
Module 3 Easy-Link™

The Module 3 is designed to conform to the MR16 Standard. This means they will fit in to dichroic light housings and fixtures.

The module3's wired in series (daisy chained) with up to 12 attached to an IDS1 (Intelligent drive system)

The intelligent drive system controls the lights. Using this, you may select between 12 million colours, and as you want, dim them too! . the great feature that i love about these is that they are DMX controllable too. so you can easily set up a DMX panel in the barn so you can just press a button to switch between different modes you have set.


There are various different lighting modules on the site which no doubt would appeal to you also. They all work in the same manner connecting back to an IDS. There are different sized IDS's which will allow you to connect more if desired.

Please feel free to pick my brains about these to your hearts contempt.. will even help you pick out all the bits you need if that helps. Be sure to have a look at the gallery on there.
Picture Gallery 4

Enjoy

[beduin]

Hi BradG

Thank you for your input and the links, do you work for them?

The system looks great but I should have mentioned that I have already run regular cabling and while the plasterboard is not yet up the soundproofing is fitted and therefore running additional cables would be a real pain, although ultimately it is possible if it is the only/best solution.

Do you know what the prices are for the Tryka system and what Lux they produce?

I am also interested in what may be possible with DMX and how it would integrate with the clipsal Ulti switches.

These could be the first of many questions as I am pretty new to all this and have little knowledge or understanding of these types of systems but I have been trying to learn in order to keep the costs down while still having some hi-tech features, so you offer to "pick your brains is much appreciated"

Cheers

[BradG]

Morning rjbrain

No i dont work for tryka Im a technical advisor for CCTV, PA, Aerials & satellite, commercial Equipment, and lots of other fields

With regards to Lux, One lux is the equivalent of 1.46 milliwatt, and each module3 is 3.4W in total for the three LED's. which gives it a Lux of 2329. They are very bright. after looking at one directly I had spots infront of my eyes for a good few minutes lol. wont do that again.

Afetr a quick google it appears you can integrate DMX in to clipsal Clipsal launches new C-Bus high power dimmer range

Quote from the page:
Various card modules are available with current ratings ranging from 3 to 20 Amps. These Clipsal dimmers are produced in 3, 6 and 12 module versions. Card modules can be mixed and interchanged. The dimmers are fully compatible with Clipsal's C-Bus lighting control and building automation system. They even open the way for a DMX lighting system to control loads on a C-Bus network.


What i like is that you can use the spot lights as weve discussed, or even the bars if you wanted to wash an area with colour. Various different sized and shape lights are available from them.

[beduin]

Hi

Oh dear I am confusing myself now, I meant Lumen rather than lux, sorry, although if memory serves I think one is a derivative of the other.

Unfortunately the clipsal system you refer to is the wired C-Bus range which I had not planned to use due to increased expense, installation, and the fact that I had reached my knowledge limit about these technologies and did not really have time to learn or the funds to pay someone else to do it. I plan to use their wireless range which I can just get my head around and it seems to do more or less what I want at reasonable cost and perhaps most importantly is fairly simple and intuitive to use.

I love the idea of RGB LED, I considered using some of these for effects as they are retrofitable, MR16 GX5.3 12v RGB 5W Luxeon K2 Remote Control 120' by Ultra Leds U.K and I think that DMX theoretically should allow control of the whole setup but for me it may get over complicated and be too difficult to integrate at this stage.

cheers

[habrown]

The DMX installation for LED's such as these should be something fairly easy to install. from the control system, a single 2core screened cable needs to run to each driver, then the LED fittings connect to the driver by a CAT5 cable.

The Tryka Stuff is good too, and is all made in the UK. Different fixtures offer different lens's for if you want to focus your light on one spot, or flood an area with colour.

Give it a go!

[silver12]

You should look at Collingwood. They are market leaders for LED lighting but, as is always the case, it comes at a price. You're looking at about £50+VAT per fitting for a downlight.

[AudiophileUk]

i havnt read throught the whole thread (sorry) but problem in the past with LED was a terribly white / blue light that was often not desirable at all, feels like an operating theatre.

CFL's which are also very efficient have the same problem, i jsut removed aload as they dont give a nice colour of light at all....

Maybe they've improved?

[silver12]

Collingwood are leagues ahead of any other competition. I realise I sound a bit like a salesman, but they really are that good. If their pricing were more inline with others in the market they would undoubtedly have the largest proportion of the industry.

[Mulvaney]

Well I've just taken the plunge and bought a triple spotlight for my kitchen and a triple downlight for the bathroom.

At least I hope that's what I bought.

Of course I only found this thread after I'd ordered!

Since it looks like I can't use the spots in the bathroom, I had to go for the downlights, even though I've got a concrete ceiling. I'm having the ceiling redone though, so I'll either board it out lower or build a box for the recessed lights I guess.

Bathroom downlights:
A J Coleman Lighting // Verdi Colour Changing Downlights (Satin Chrome 12v)

Kitchen spots:
A J Coleman Lighting // Verdi Colour Changing Ceiling Fitting

I'm hoping to use them with my established dimmers:
The Internet Switch Store

I guess I'll have a look at all the other LED suggestions now - hopefully I won't find something better / cheaper!

Why do I torture myself so...

:o)

[habrown]

Originally Posted by silver12

Collingwood are leagues ahead of any other competition. I realise I sound a bit like a salesman, but they really are that good. If their pricing were more inline with others in the market they would undoubtedly have the largest proportion of the industry.

I don't really think Collingwood are market leaders... do you work for them?! Some or their fittings have a rather bizzare GRB set up, rather than the rest of the markets RGB, so is confusing when trying to program the DMX unit that controls it. They are cheaper as you mentioned, but it all depends on your budget, and what you need.

The Deluce Verdi fittings are a nice easy to install, and give a good quality of light output. they are only really controllable through their own dimmer to change colour and dim up and down, so be sure to get one of those! its a little 3 button controller that fits into a grid switch.

[silver12]

No, I just know a lot about lighting, and from experience in the past I have been so impressed with Collingwood. I personally think they're expensive so I don't know what lights you've been fitting!

I've had no experience of their RGB lighting as I'm not keen on colour changing lights, however all of their 'normal' range is very good - or at least the ones I have used.

[Mulvaney]

Originally Posted by habrown

The Deluce Verdi fittings are a nice easy to install, and give a good quality of light output. they are only really controllable through their own dimmer to change colour and dim up and down, so be sure to get one of those! its a little 3 button controller that fits into a grid switch.

Oh dear.

Oh well, I'll see what happens with the dimmer I've already got (plus the one I've just forked out for). You tap it on, tap it off, or hold it to dim up, or if up's not what you want, let go and hold it again to dim down. It's also remote controlled, although I haven't set that up yet.

[habrown]

The Verdi fittings need to have a quick ramp down then up for the LED Drivers to change colour. The Deluce 3 button dimmer's middle button has an in-built chip that knows the speed it need to go to change the colour.

I fear that the dimmer you have may not be able to do this, due to the fade time it will have. I know that it is achievable through a rotary. The best thing to do is give them a call for their advice.

[Mulvaney]

Originally Posted by habrown

The Verdi fittings need to have a quick ramp down then up for the LED Drivers to change colour. The Deluce 3 button dimmer's middle button has an in-built chip that knows the speed it need to go to change the colour.

I fear that the dimmer you have may not be able to do this, due to the fade time it will have. I know that it is achievable through a rotary. The best thing to do is give them a call for their advice.

Yep, you were right! So that's £40 worth of dimmers that need replacing with nearly £100 worth of Verdi ones, which I've ordered from the same place (AJ Coleman) which were dispatched 11 days ago according to the dispatch email. One guy there is off sick, the other guy's on holiday and the chap that answers the phone works for another company in the same office (and they're also in the process of moving office apparently), I've emailed so hopefully I'll get an answer soon, but I'm not overly impressed. I was happy with my first order though, so hopefully there's nothing untoward going on.

Ho hum.

[Mulvaney]

Well I got to speak to someone eventually and they said that the delivery company had tried to deliver 3 times. They had my mobile number but it's up to them whether they use it apparently, and no note was left any of the three times.

They arranged redelivery, which arrived this morning before 9.

Unfortunately they're in very poor condition. As you can see from the photo, the "brushed metal" has rubbed off in many places. I've emailed them the pic and phoned them (no answer - perhaps they've finally moved office - and phone too?)

I'm not sure if I should go for a finish that doesn't rub off - white perhaps.

Hopefully I'll get it resolved at some point. Perhaps I should visit Birmingham and get them replaced in person.

[Mikey601]

Originally Posted by silver12

Collingwood are leagues ahead of any other competition. I realise I sound a bit like a salesman, but they really are that good. If their pricing were more inline with others in the market they would undoubtedly have the largest proportion of the industry.

It's hard to be inline in terms of pricing when your products far out weighs any of your competitors.

Originally Posted by habrown

I don't really think Collingwood are market leaders... do you work for them?! Some or their fittings have a rather bizzare GRB set up, rather than the rest of the markets RGB, so is confusing when trying to program the DMX unit that controls it. They are cheaper as you mentioned, but it all depends on your budget, and what you need.

The Deluce Verdi fittings are a nice easy to install, and give a good quality of light output. they are only really controllable through their own dimmer to change colour and dim up and down, so be sure to get one of those! its a little 3 button controller that fits into a grid switch.

Depending on which out of the 2 DMX controllers your talking about, collingwood have one of the most easy and stylish DMX controllers on the market. The multi channel controller makes mood lighting a doddle.

...oh and collingwood are amoung only a handful of companies who use the most technically constructed LED available. Phillips share some similarities, would you consider them market leaders?