BBC HD Picture Quality

[Tony B]

Maybe I am just getting used to HD and it no longer has the wow factor of a few months ago, but it does seem to me that the picture quality on some programmes is declining.

For example Strictly Come Dancing last night (the late show at 11:30) seemed barely any better than SD. Are they reducing bitrates, or was it upscaled SD?

It has to be said, of course, that Lilia and Ola will still be absolutely gorgeous regardless of the picture resolution.

This country simply isn't getting the full deal when it comes to HD broadcasting and indeed Broadband.

...Remember... the Jap's have had HD sinse 91'. The Yanks just buy a typical reciever for 100$ (like our Freeview) and get HD for the one off payment.

...Nevermind the DAB/DVB issue on reception...

[dan1979]

BBC are experimenting with bit-rates maybe it was related to do with that assuming you're using freeview?

[StevenBagley]

Originally Posted by Tony B

For example Strictly Come Dancing last night (the late show at 11:30) seemed barely any better than SD. Are they reducing bitrates, or was it upscaled SD?

A lot of it is upscaled SD, including bizarrely all the captions (even when overlayed over HD pictures), as far as I can tell the only HD material is the live stuff from the studio, pretty much everything else is upscaled SD.

On the other hand, switch you box back to BBC1 and you'll see how much of an improvement the HD source is

Steven

[remlap]

Originally Posted by Purist

The Yanks just buy a typical reciever for 100$ (like our Freeview) and get HD for the one off payment.

Maybe because of the fact their bigger stations are all on VHF, and then there's the smaller stations on UHF which have all nearly been assigned another signal for their HD broadcasts.

And when anlog is switched off there, there's the chance of all the stations swapping over their HD station to their originally assigned channel number of analog broadcasting leaving room for even more stations.

Thats all but the low powered stations who have been allowed to stay on anlog for how many years to come.

They're still getting an upscalled or indeed genuine HD signal on a percentage of channels regardless, RemLap. Be it the homesexual channel or the shopping channel. But it isn't that bad over there, clearly

...And what do we get for our one off payment?... a brushed up analongue signal called DVB.

[David Robinson]

The good thing about BBC HD is the compression technology. With MPEG4 and a relatively high bitrate, I can't see any MPEG artifacts even close up to the screen. This is how digital TV was supposed to be! Even with an SD source - even with an SD display - it would still be hugely better than we are used to.

What would make it even better:

1. Progressive origination and transmission (720p). I can't believe we are still using a 1930s video compression technique in the 21st century

2. More material with proper motion portrayal (50Hz) rather than 'filmic effect' in its various forms. 'High definition' needs high resolution in all 3 dimensions - horizontal, vertical and temporal.

[city]

I think it depends what you are viewing the programmes on.
I use a projector and can project at 3metre screen size. Thats when you notice the difference?

[RecordablDVDfan]

It looks good to me but maybe I am not getting the best with just a 32" screen ? It's certainly better than Sky anyway, can't get freeview where I am unless the IOW transmitter is 'coming in'

[SickStu]

I've only got a 32" as well so maybe that's the problem but I have to say that switching between HD / SD during the programme I could hardly tell the difference except for the BBC HD logo in the corner.

[RecordablDVDfan]

Originally Posted by SickStu

I've only got a 32" as well so maybe that's the problem but I have to say that switching between HD / SD during the programme I could hardly tell the difference except for the BBC HD logo in the corner.

Oh well you sure you are watching the HD feed assuming you have a Humax ?!! It's very sharp but you do need to sit back a good 8ft or more. I hope we get more live HD over Xmas

The Alan Tichmarsh prog before at 8pm while a bit boring for some had some excellent images and close ups, like the BBC were demo'ing HD

[Bengbeng]

A lot of it is upscaled SD

I think that too. I'm far more impressed with Euro1080-HD (MPEG2!) than BBC-HD. Euro1080 is 99% true HD.

[remlap]

Originally Posted by Bengbeng

I think that too. I'm far more impressed with Euro1080-HD (MPEG2!) than BBC-HD. Euro1080 is 99% true HD.

Yeah because they half a dying satellite to themselves.

[mike7]

Originally Posted by remlap

Yeah because they half a dying satellite to themselves.

What does this mean ?

[Stephen Neal]

Originally Posted by StevenBagley

A lot of it is upscaled SD, including bizarrely all the captions (even when overlayed over HD pictures), as far as I can tell the only HD material is the live stuff from the studio, pretty much everything else is upscaled SD.

On the other hand, switch you box back to BBC1 and you'll see how much of an improvement the HD source is

Steven

I suspect the CG being used is an SD Aston Ethos. I know Aston made a 1250/50 version of the Caption/Aston 4 in the early 90s (it was used for Eureka 1250 stuff) - but I don't think Motif or Ethos were offered in HD.

Don't know if Red/Green/Blue (the newer Astons) or Aston 7 have HD options - but I suspect that given that BBC HD is a low-cost/marginal-cost operation (and Strictly is probably the first non-co-pro, non-sport HD origination only for BBC viewers) buying in new HD graphics gear isn't in the budget. (Not sure the titles are HD either - and the EVS replay looks a bit on the soft side too)

That said - the HD cameras do look cracking - and massively better than the clapped out Thomson 1657s they were using last season (which were beyond their sell by date and had visible faults - including some awful ringing)