Do we need 1080P will it be better

[Kevo]

Viewing 6mp digital photos at a scaled down res still looks excellent on my PC monitor and plasma TV.

Playing PC games at a scaled down res still looks excellent excellent on my PC monitor and plasma TV.

As will watching HDTV or HD-DVD scaled down (on my Plasma), be it a 720p, 1008i or 1080p source.
I know it wll be MUCH better than 576i SD which I've been watching for the past 30+ years.

I'll be more than content with that.

[Renoir]

Originally Posted by Stephen Neal

Think you're confusing 540p (in the way it is usually referred to) and 576i.

540p is a commonly used reference to cheat and not properly de-interlace 1920x1080/60i. Effectively you treat 1080/60i as 1080/540p (i.e. permanenly Bob de-interlace it) In this case 540p is 1920x540 (effectively the fields are treated as lower res frames). This isn't the same as 720x576/50i (which in some VERY nasty applications - particularly on cheap LCDs and nasty PC DVD players is treated as 720x288/50p)...

Bit confused here. Are you not saying that some applications treat 720x576i as 288p and then scaling to fit the display. Is that not fundamentally the same as treating 1080i as 540p and scaling. I'm not sure if I'm missing something or if I've just misunderstood your wording. I guess I just don't understand the following phrase "This isn't the same as 720x576/50i (which in some VERY nasty applications - particularly on cheap LCDs and nasty PC DVD players is treated as 720x288/50p)". Could you clarify?

[silkyandy x]

I have sky install booked for the 29th.

I think you have missed the point Stoo and probably got out of bed the wrong side

Exactly the point about the salesmen which is why I came on an AV forum for some impartial advice althhough I douibt someone who has just ordered a 50" plasma at 1080p will be giving that I do not know whether what he is saying is correct or not but if you read some of the other threads regarding this issue (most notably the one with the article about not wasting your money on a 1080p panel now) you will find that others too have made similar comments. I don't want to find I have a buggy first gen panel with no source support nither do I want to be told I only have a half HD panel in 12 months time - can you see my quandry?

[StooMonster]

Originally Posted by silkyandy x

I think you have missed the point Stoo and probably got out of bed the wrong side

Didn't mean to sound grumpy

But your post did make me think of my aunt, and the salesman's "why would you want (new) 'HD Ready' plasma when I have this cheaper (old) display here".

FYI, the "article" (it's actually a blog) is more relevant to USA in some parts, esp the 'wobulation'. But to summarise the blog ... the key problem is the first generation of 1080p LCD screens do not accept 1080p signal, or have a terrible method of deinterlacing 1080i. This problem is being solved rapidly, for example the 1080p plasma I have ordered both accepts 1080p signals (so I can use my scaler) and deinterlaces 1080i film properly (so I'm told); LCDs seem to be following suit.

The point is, if you're buying a 1080p screen ... check that it can actually accept a 1080p signal (many can not today), and also check how it deinterlaces 1080i (most use 'bob' which is bad).

StooMonster

[Jong1]

You raise valid concerns. But I do think your salesman is giving you some guff. In particular Blueray will NOT be 720p. Almost all film material on HiDef DVD (HD & Blueray) will be 1080.

Although there is always new stuff around the corner I think now is a particularly bad time to be upgrading. I do think 1080p will quickly become standard, certainly above 45" and will have benefits. But, unless money is burning a hole in your pocket I would not be ordering any 1080p stuff until they're out, reviewed, and the manufacturers have made their money out of the early adopters. On the other hand I don't want to buy a quality 720p 45-50" right now either. That's why I'm waiting until next Jan to buy!

[silkyandy x]

Thanks Stoo and jong, very valid comments and yes the money is getting a little 'warm'

Although the Sky install is making me wonder what to do. I do not have HD in the living room at the moment (only in the games room with the X360) I am getting multiroom in there but it was going to be SD sky with the HD in the living room. I could switch them for now but the the poor GF will only have SD while I will be swanning around in the games room with the LCD HD and the xbox360 and SkyHD, She won't much chance of watching the new SKY One HD or the docu's.

What is the 1080p plasma you have ordered Stoo, and how much release date etc.. if you don't mind answering.

[StooMonster]

Originally Posted by silkyandy x

What is the 1080p plasma you have ordered Stoo, and how much release date etc.. if you don't mind answering.

Pioneer PDP-500EX, it's the first true 1080p plasma (1920x1080 pixels); and it's a monitor rather than a television. Panasonic are also producing 50" plasmas in the next 12 months, and the one's I've seen pictures of are televisions rather than monitors (Vierra series)

Here's Press Release: http://www.pioneer.co.uk/uk/content/...PDP5000EX.html
Price: £6000
Availability: June 2006

I've already ordered mine from a Pioneer specialist store, and am waiting for delivery date.

StooMonster

[silkyandy x]

The King of plasma's so I am told. Nice one mate.

I think LCD is the only option for me as I am a big gamer but that panel accepts 1080p so i don't you have anything to worry about. On the LCD front on the other it is not so clear cut. Look forward to reading your review of the set when it arrives.

[blakey1]

For me retailers, Manufatcturers, mags etc will tell us what ever will sell the products availble at the time. While Salesman will tell us 1080 panels are not worth it now I bet in 2 years time when their readly available they will be telling most that they need to upgrade to make the best of HD.

Ive read alot of research about viewing distances etc but tell someone on the SKy HD forum that they will benefit little from HD if they watch a 26 or 32inch 768 panel from 10ft and they will tell you where to go. People are saying they are see huge differences some even saying that they struggle to watch DVD quality films after seeing the HD trailer and I wonder what kind of person the viewing distance figs relate to.

One thing I think we can guarantee is within the next 1-2 years there will be many buying 1080p panels saying that theres a huge difference between 720p/1080i and 1080p regardless of what research tells us.

[Stephen Neal]

Originally Posted by Renoir

Bit confused here. Are you not saying that some applications treat 720x576i as 288p and then scaling to fit the display.

Yep - somesmall, cheap LCD displays (on the cheaper portable DVD players and pocket TVs for example) only have 288 lines or less, so do this, understandably.

However some PC DVD player applications do this when in BOB or Video mode when replaying DVDs that originated interlaced (i.e. from a regular interlaced video camera rather than film or a recent 25p progressive video camera)

Is that not fundamentally the same as treating 1080i as 540p and scaling. I'm not sure if I'm missing something or if I've just misunderstood your wording.

Yep - fundamentally the same - you're ditching the resolution above the field resolution that is present in an interlaced signal, so that you can de-interlace fluid motion more easily, (or in the case of really bad PC DVD players - some convert 576/50i to 288/25p by ditching every other field, and just repeating one field twice to scale 288/25p to 576/25p, rather than the slightly better 288/50p scaled to 576/50p)

In both cases you are treating the 576/50i source as a 288/50p source, just as with 1080/50i some displays treat it as 540/50p.

I guess I just don't understand the following phrase "This isn't the same as 720x576/50i (which in some VERY nasty applications - particularly on cheap LCDs and nasty PC DVD players is treated as 720x288/50p)". Could you clarify?

I was stressing that 720x576/50i is very different from 1920x540/50p - as a previous post had seemed to merge 576 and 540 as being the same or similar standards - whereas they are very different. (And also qualifying that 1920x1080/50i treated as 1920x540/50p is similar to 720x576/50i being treated as 720x288/50p)

[Stephen Neal]

Originally Posted by Jong1

You raise valid concerns. But I do think your salesman is giving you some guff. In particular Blueray will NOT be 720p. Almost all film material on HiDef DVD (HD & Blueray) will be 1080.

Yep - the only reason to release BluRay and HD-DVD material in 720p would be for releases of US TV shows shot 720/24p (like Arrested Development) or US Sports releases shot in 720/60p (for ABC and Fox, and I think ESPN)

Most movies will be 1080/24p transfers (25p in Europe I suspect), and most TV series shot in HD in the US are shot 1080/24p (even for the 720p networks, as downconversion to 720p is easy from a 1080p master)

[jpb123]

An interesting thing is that according to unanimous reports about the just released Toshiba HD DVD it's better to set the output to 1080i than 720p no matter what screen you have. Even 720p screens (which mostly are projectors I guess since most plasmas/LCDs are 768) give much better picture set to 1080i. Not sure how this relates to a 1080p. This seems to have suprised alot of regulars at the US AV forums.

[Jong1]

Originally Posted by silkyandy x

What is the 1080p plasma you have ordered Stoo, and how much release date etc.. if you don't mind answering.

For what its worth, if all goes to plan I expect to be choosing between the Pioneer and Panasonic 50" (Plasma) and the Sony X-series 46" (LCD). I don't expect any oof these guys to screw up on 1080p compatibility especially they will almost immediately be tested with Blue-ray players.

I believe its worth keeping the whole LCD/Plasma debate open as each new generation is released.

[Jong1]

Originally Posted by jpb123

An interesting thing is that according to unanimous reports about the just released Toshiba HD DVD it's better to set the output to 1080i than 720p no matter what screen you have. Even 720p screens (which mostly are projectors I guess since most plasmas/LCDs are 768) give much better picture set to 1080i. Not sure how this relates to a 1080p. This seems to have suprised alot of regulars at the US AV forums.

I guess it suggests Tosh have not done a great job of 1080p to 720p conversion (even HD DVDs (movies) are mostly 1080p/24 on the disc).

[StooMonster]

Originally Posted by Jong1

I guess it suggests Tosh have not done a great job of 1080p to 720p conversion (even HD DVDs (movies) are mostly 1080p/24 on the disc).

Yes, over on AVSforum and other places the 720p output of Toshiba HD-A1 is being universally panned as awful. I've read reports that it downscales 1080i to 480i and the upscales that 720p, although from what I hear of it's performance I'm betting that HD-A1 simply does 'bob' and scales each 1920x540 field to 1280x720.

StooMonster