[Paul D]

I've just sent my Teac DRH300 system back and bought a Denon DM37DAB.
There is no comparison between them when you need a serious "and" party system.
The Teac was very good when it came to "flat" accurate sound.
My own unit was faulty(no bass via Cd/dab), but i managed to demo my friends DRH300DAB.
The clarity from the Teac was second to none in its price range.
It was fast and tight with bass, and very musical.
It fell down with its preset tone control. (no bass or treble)
Dab reception could be a little hit and miss, with the signal level fluctuating for no apparent reason.
Turning up the volume wasn't rewarded with better sound though, as it all started to feel strained.
All the time i was listening to it, it kept thinking i preferred the sound from my other favourite mini the Onkyo CR515!

So at this point, i would normally be saying go for the Onkyo CR515.
But no, there is a new kid on the block and it is better. (IMHO!)

The Onkyo has a very like-able sound, it is fast accurate and can go a little deeper than most minis.
It also seems louder , or less strained at its louder volumes than its wattage would suggest.

I too was just going to get the Onkyo CR515, but wanted to see if there was something new and with USB.
The CR525 hasn't been received as well as the CR515.

Now i will upfront and say i'm not(wasn't) a fan of Denon when it comes to music playback. I do rate their cinema gear, but have never got on when it came to music.

Denons previous mini the DM35 didn't suit my taste, and simply wasn't worth getting over the Onkyo CR515.
To me the DM35 seemed slightly muddled and didn't want to go loud either.

I called into Richer Sounds to see what was new, and they had just received a stack of Denon DM37DABs.
I have a very nice set of Tannoys F2s just waiting for the right system.
I wanted a demo first, but i was running late so just grabbed one.
My reasoning was that if i didn't like it, i would just return it for something else.

I'm very glad i did!
Denon must have been very busy, and have somebody new on the team.
They have tuned it very differently to the DM35.
I would have sworn i was listening to the the Onkyo CR515, but only better.
I wasn't totally happy straight away though.
There was a slight colouration that was bugging me, and messing with the bass and treble didn't change it.
I found something in the menu called "optimisation" that was set to "On".
I switched it off and all was well. I'm not sure what it is for, but i will read the manual one day!
Anyway, onto the DM37...

First thing, it can go loud and deep. (if required)
This is helped by having Bass and Treble controls.
It also has super bass for low volume listening. (or when you are in the party mood!)
It also has a "Direct" mode when you want it straight.
With "optimisation" off, "Direct" mode is superb. The sounds are pure but come with a surprising energy.
There is not hint of colouration, but you still get that "live" tension in the sound.
Crank it up and it just gets better and better.
It NEVER sounds harsh, and i gave up going higher before it did.
For a low wattage mini system, it punches well above its weight.
Turn on super bass or crank the bass and treble and you get a real nightclub bass heavy sound. Yes it then becomes coloured and fizzy, but yes it is great fun!
This is perfect for me, because sometimes i want accurate, sometimes i want it low and deep.
With the Teac, i was thinking of getting a sub. There is no need with the system.
The Tannoy F2s just seem to plumb the depths with utter ease.

When it comes to styling, i much preferred the Teac DRH300.
I also preferred the Teacs display, but the Denon it perfectly fine.
The Denon display also turns off completely if that is desired. (dims 70/40%)
I got my DM37 in black, and while nice it is nothing to write home about.
The volume knob on my unit is a little stiff, and not nearly as nice as the Teac.

The Denon has DAB/FM and unlike the Teac also has MW.
The Denon requires three aerials, where as the Teac only needs one. (for both FM and DAB)
This can be a pain as i now need to run either a splitter, or install two aerials.
However, the Denon seems to have a much stronger tuner.
I'm not sure if this has anything to do with the separate aerials, but i can get 12 more DAB stations with the Denon.(52 versus 64)
There does seem a little delay whilst changing DAB stations.
FM also suffers from less interference.
MW is so so, but local stations are picked up without to much noise.(using loop aerial supplied)

CDs are read much quicker on the Denon (than the Teac), but this is to be expected. (DVD reader versus CD reader etc)
I wouldn't say the Denon was any quicker than the Onkyo.
It will play MP3 and WMA via CD or USB. (it will read IDG3-tag/META-tag data)
I haven't tried MP3/WMA yet so will have to come back to this.

The remote is very slender, and i didn't like the little white stubby buttons at first. But i must admit they are responsive, and i am warming to them.
I know this might sound trivial, but the remote doesn't have "eject".
This shouldn't be a problem, as you have to get up to change discs anyway.
But i kind of like the butler "here's your disc sir" action a remote eject affords!

I cannot say much about CD playback, other than it is perfect.
It has total weight and authority, and has transparency that you would pay more for a CD player than the whole system.
The drive is as quiet as you could expect, but does make the odd quiet "chirp" whilst searching tracks etc.
I'm not sure if this is the norm, but you have to press play after inserting a disc. (either that or i'm being impatient )

It has all the wake up and sleep functions, as well as an auto setting clock.

Everything is relative, but for £300 this mini system is near perfect.
I paid £220 for the Denon DM37 and £80 for the Tannoy F2s.
I should add i paid £45 for a pair of stands, and used some chunky generic oxygen free speaker cables.

Audiophiles would never go near any mini system, but for the rest of us the Denon is just so flexible.
Crank up the incredible bass for parties, and knock it all off for private listening.

The Onkyo CR515 has just met its match (finally), and i'm glad Denon have gone one step further.
You really need to go see/hear for yourself, but if i can answer any questions then fire away.
I'm not saying i will be able to answer all of them, but i will give it a try...

[sangha84]

Out of interest were you able to compair the denon with onkyo 715 , As its more of a super charged version of the 515.

I'm in the market for a mini system as an alternative to budget seperates as their is generally more of a bang for buck !!

Cheers

Edit: some actual pics would be great(if poss)

[Paul D]

Hi
No i haven't heard the CR715.
I was interested in one myself.
But with the price being cheaper for the Denon and that you get USB, i didn't see the point in the end.

Since the CR515 went loud enough for a normal room, i would imagine the CR715 would fill a large room without too many problems.

Is there any particular pics you want?
There are plenty of pics on the web, but if there is something not covered then let me know.

[kendun]

Hi Paul,
Could I ask as to where you bought the F2s for £80 please?The cheapest I found was around £110 online
[quote=Paul D;7835832]I paid £220 for the Denon DM37 and £80 for the Tannoy F2s.
/quote]

[sangha84]

Originally Posted by Paul D

Is there any particular pics you want?
There are plenty of pics on the web, but if there is something not covered then let me know.

Thanks for the reply, to be honest their isnt really.

I've always found that home pics give a better view than any catalogues pics can

[Paul D]

Kendun
I got my F2s from Peter Tyson.
They cost £79.90 but they don't seem to be in stock at the moment.
I didn't even pay postage, as i tacked my order on my friends order! (i did offer to split etc)

They are offering the Tannoy F1s at a great price though.
Ignore th first F1 listed @ £99.90, and scroll down further and you will see a clearance offer price of £59.90!
Or click here for direct link.
It may be worth phoning them first, as they might still have some F2s @ £79.90 etc.

Also, i've now found the Denon for £179.99 +£5 del.
Click here for link

I cannot vouch for them, but their feedback suggests next day delivery...

[Paul D]

I've now tested a memory stick via USB.
Both Mp3 and WMA work just fine.
I've had no previous experience of playing back from folder and files, but all seems straight forward.
Folder names are given on the scrolling display, then individual files names and info is then given. (on selection etc)
My files vary from around 160kbps to 320kbps(with the odd 96kbps old recordings), and sound surprisingly good.
I do think you are losing depth and some clarity, but for casual listening the convenience is worth it.

The system is running in nicely, and i'm more impressed each time i use it.
I have found i don't need to add any bass or treble, and just run it in "direct" mode.
I normally find "direct" modes a little hollow and dry, but not with this system.
It stays neutral at all times, yet manages to add dynamics and attack when needed.
It will still give bass when needed, and never sounds harsh.

I do use S/Bass when listening at low levels, as it just add that nice oomph that brings the passion back.

I'm getting no hiss or hum from the speakers (unless on the recording), and the CD transport is silent.

Another plus point, is how cool the system runs.
I had it cranked fairly loud, and was surprised to find the unit barely warm.

Denon have made good use of the red/green power led.
It is set in the power button, but is very small so doesn't light the room up.

The only thing i can think to complain about is the volume knob.
It isn't stiff as such, rather well over damped.
You have to get a good grip to turn it etc.
Maybe this will loosen in time, but since i will tend to use the remote, maybe not!

[kendun]

Guess this is another microsystem to consider seriously now,onkyo 515,Yamaha 170 and this Denon....
Need to convince Mrs.K that the Denon is essential now

[Paul D]

I'm a fan of the CR515, but it is not the most reliable unit.
I'm hoping the DM37 is reliable as Denons tend to be.
The DM37 gives a very similar sound to the CR515, but is more dynamic.
The CR515 has been replaced by the CR525 which isn't receiving as much praise as the older model.

When it comes to low end grunt, nothing i've heard from a mini comes close to the DM37.

The thing that surprises the most is how they have managed this quality for the price.
I fully expect Teac to back with something even better, but for now i'm quite happy.

[Whomper]

I also have a DM37, and I'm very pleased with it - using it to drive an old pair of Mission 760SEs. Bass is indeed superb, as is the sound quality in general.

The "Optimisation" you refer to, which seems to be switched on by default, applies an EQ that makes the system sound good through the matching Denon speakers. If you're not using them, you should turn it off ASAP - I also disliked the effect it had on the sound.

I've tinkered a bit with the USB MP3 playback, and it's not really worth it, IMHO. The playback isn't gapless, and the folder browsing only lists folders that actually have MP3s in, so you can't browse by artist, then by album, etc. Pity, or I'd have wired in an external HDD with a copy of my iTunes library on there. Not what I bought the system for though, so it doesn't bother me.

The only two major gripes I have are 1) the volume increments/decrements gained from pressing volume up/down on the remote are too large, and 2) the DAB mode feels a bit tacked on - the UI's a bit of a faff, and it forgets all your presets if you unplug it (it remembers you *have* presets, just doesn't remember what they are, and tunes you into Arrow Rock over and over again). Both DAB and FM are crystal clear though - the FM is so good, it's almost indistinguishable from DAB.

[jendo]

Originally Posted by Paul D

Kendun
I got my F2s from Peter Tyson.
They cost £79.90 but they don't seem to be in stock at the moment.
I didn't even pay postage, as i tacked my order on my friends order! (i did offer to split etc)

They are offering the Tannoy F1s at a great price though.
Ignore th first F1 listed @ £99.90, and scroll down further and you will see a clearance offer price of £59.90!
Or click here for direct link.
It may be worth phoning them first, as they might still have some F2s @ £79.90 etc.

Also, i've now found the Denon for £179.99 +£5 del.
Click here for link

I cannot vouch for them, but their feedback suggests next day delivery...

Thanks for the ebay link. I missed the auction but gave them a ring on the off chance and they honoured the ebay price £180 + delivery Not bad for a bricks and mortar shop

[jendo]

I was just wondering do you think an external usb hard drive would work plugged into the usb socket

[Paul D]

Originally Posted by jendo

I was just wondering do you think an external usb hard drive would work plugged into the usb socket

I'm not sure, but if your not in a hurry, i'm sure i could borrow one to try it out...

[Paul D]

In the mean time...
I've read the manual (first time for everything!), and it says no problem with HDDs.
It needs to be formatted either FAT16 or FAT32, and a single partition.(or will only see the first partition etc)
The only warning that if the HDD comes with a AC adaptor, then that you are best using it. (as the USB socket may not have enough power)
I will let you know how i get on

[jendo]

Nice one mate. Thanks for all the info on this thread.

Don't s'pose anyone would know whether a turntable (Pro-ject USB in my case) would sound okay thru the DM37? I'm space deficient and was hoping either this system or similar would do the business in place of a separate amp?

Hi there, was thinking of buying the DENON DM37DAB MICRO SYSTEM but before I made my purchase, I wonder if anyone could please help me with this question. What is the sound quality of the system whilst listening through a pair of headphones? I know it's not the same quality as with listening through speakers but circumstances dictate usage with headphones some of the time.

cheers

[dc1743]

Hi,

Probably more of a star at £234 including the Denon SC-M37 speakers from Superfi. I bought one from the helpful guys at Superfi Manchester yesterday.

I auditioned the unit with the Denon SC-M37 speakers and Wharfdale Diamond 9.1s at Superfi then popped across the road to Pratical Hifi and listened to the Monitor Audio BR1s.

I came to the conclusion that none of the upgraded speakers made any significant improvement to the sound. Yes they sounded different, but I couldn't honestly say better or worth the 28% increase in the package price. It is worth noting that What-HiFi's 5 star review used the Denon SC-M37 speakers,

Another consideration is that if you are are buying a micro hi-fi you may want micro speakers. The speakers are micro in size but very well made. The Monitor Audio BR1s looked cheaply made in comparison.

Regards

[davidlqs]

Hi,

Since the demise of my old Denon mini system I've been looking for a replacement. I'm considering either the Denon DM37 or the Onkyo CR515. My question is, are the speakers which came with my old system on a par quality-wise with these two systems? I'm not sure but I think the speakers are Denon USC-C1's (25 watt, 6 ohm impedence). I've see a few recommendations in this thread for speakers in the £70-£100 bracket, which seems quite a lot to me when the rest of the setup is <£180.

Cheers,

[Inverted_Hover]

Originally Posted by davidlqs

Hi,

Since the demise of my old Denon mini system I've been looking for a replacement. I'm considering either the Denon DM37 or the Onkyo CR515. My question is, are the speakers which came with my old system on a par quality-wise with these two systems? I'm not sure but I think the speakers are Denon USC-C1's (25 watt, 6 ohm impedence). I've see a few recommendations in this thread for speakers in the £70-£100 bracket, which seems quite a lot to me when the rest of the setup is <£180.

Cheers,

Listening in Curry's I found the std speakers with the Denon DM37 as a package to give a sound inferior to the CS325 with std speakers and the CS525 with std speakers. I don't think the DM37 could have won a 5 star award with it's packaged speakers. The currys unit wasn't wired out of phase which was the best explanation I could think of for it's sound.

So the CS525 speakers or similar would probably be good with other mini's.

[dc1743]

Originally Posted by Inverted_Hover

I don't think the DM37 could have won a 5 star award with it's packaged speakers.

Denon D-M37DAB review - whathifi.com

It is clear the review was with the standard speakers. The sound of speakers is very subjective and I doubt if there are many Currys stores able to provide anything like a suitable environment to audition speakers. I listened to the Onkyo systems at Practical Hi-fi and to be honest could not detect a significant difference between any of them. The deciding factors for me were price and appearance. The Denon system and speakers are particularly well made.

Davidlqs was querying the merit of paying £100+ for speakers for a £180 micro hi-fi. This is why I suggest the package speakers are value at effectively £54 from Superfi.

Regards

[Paul D]

I can see the logic to thinking spending £100 on speakers on a £180 system doesn't make sense.
However things are not as straight forward as it would seem.

Yes the system may only cost £180, but its performance far outweighs its price.
You really need to spend far more money on the "system" to get much more improvement in sound.

Not so with the speakers.

A £60 set of speakers can be bettered by a £120 set of speakers by some margin. (so you are only spending an extra £40-£60)
(Having said that, choosing the "wrong" speaker even if it costs more doesn't guarantee a better sound!)

You will normally find the frequency response is wider, and the speaker to be more dynamic.
Depending on which speaker you buy, you should also notice less compression and extra depth and clarity.
The better speaker should also have less colouration and a better quality crossover circuit.

Believe me, i'm not one for spending money on anything that i don't see improvement on.
I pass on "expensive" speaker cables, as i don't see (hear) any "improvement".
Chunky oxygen free cable is my limit, and that only costs a couple of quid a metre.
Shielded power leads also get the push, as i just cannot see/hear ANY difference. (even on VERY high end equipment)
I did make sure my speaker stands were weighty(sand filled), but again they didn't cost much either.
Blu-tak secures the speakers to the stands, as i don't see any reason spending more on anything else.
I find speaker positioning and room objects to have a bigger influence on the overall sound. (ie get the room right and good sound will follow)

I've listened to many speakers around the £50 - £250 mark, and there can be a dramatic difference to the sound.
Some are bright, others bassy. Some seem muddled, whilst other have great clarity.
Listen to any mini systems that price varies by £200 on the same set of speakers and the differences will be much smaller.

So yes the DM37 may only cost a couple of hundred quid, but choose the right speaker for your tastes, and you will get even better performance.

I went for a set of Tannoy F2s at £80 (price varies from £80-£120), and they are a good match for the Denon and my tastes.
What suits me may not suit everybody though.
But one thing you cannot deny about the Tannoys is that frequency response is good and the clarity second to none in that price range.
My previous "Missions" sounded compressed compared to these speakers.

If you don't hear much difference between the standard (supplied) speakers and other aftermarket speakers, then i wouldn't worry about it.
It not about having "better" speakers, it's about having the best sound that suits you.
If the supplied speakers are good enough, then spending even one pound on anything else would be a waste...

[dc1743]

Hi,

Paul D - I fully accept that improvements can be made in the speaker department and agree with your comments.

I do wish to make the point though that the Denon speakers are often too easily dismissed and may be perfectly adequate for many people and therefore a particularly good bargain.

Anyway I have just stumbled across a very good deal for those who wish to buy their own alternative speakers. Empire Direct are selling the silver DM37 for £149.99

Denon DM37DABS Mini Hifi Dab Remote Exc. Speakers Sil | EmpireDirect.co.uk Electrical Appliances

They are selling the SCM37 speakers for £59.99.

Regards

[Paul D]

Good price!

[davidlqs]

Thanks for the comments, and especially for that link to EmpireDirect. I was poised to buy from Superfi anyway, but that price is un-missable!

[Inverted_Hover]

Originally Posted by dc1743

Denon D-M37DAB review - whathifi.com

It is clear the review was with the standard speakers. The sound of speakers is very subjective and I doubt if there are many Currys stores able to provide anything like a suitable environment to audition speakers. I listened to the Onkyo systems at Practical Hi-fi and to be honest could not detect a significant difference between any of them. The deciding factors for me were price and appearance. The Denon system and speakers are particularly well made.

Davidlqs was querying the merit of paying £100+ for speakers for a £180 micro hi-fi. This is why I suggest the package speakers are value at effectively £54 from Superfi.

Regards

Currys is not a perfect environment, I realise this. But I struggle to understand how come the CS325, CS525, DM37 sounded so very different in the 3 stores (under less than perfect conditions) to my ears . . . but in near perfect conditions for you the different units you tried sounded so similar.

I only see perfect conditions as improving sound, and generally doing so across the board. I don't see how it can level what I found to be an unlevel playing field.

I'm puzzled why the sony minisystems, the onkyo etc work on a metal shelf in currys, yet the denon doesn't . . . I suspect it's the speakers making the difference, surely under these conditions they should all sound ok, not one sound noticely worse than the others.

I'm not against the dm37 with other speakers, admittidely that was setup properly, it's just the std ones i'm left not trusting.

Hi fi demos don't normally have all the options under one roof - so i find it's a case of comparing what you can when you can. Hence why I feel if the environment is the same for all, it's reasonable to compare them when a dramatic difference is heard.

And currys is I thought more similar to how most purchasers would listen to these than the near perfect hifi demo room - which I think few music listeners have at home.

Ultimately, I think something is amis with the review based on what I've heard in 2 different stores. And looking at the dm37 std speakers, seeing the optimisation control denon felt they needed with the dm37, etc all justs adds to my suspicions.

I did agree with what hifi on the onkyo 515 last year though, that blew my mind what it could do . . . knocked the expensive b&w ipod speaker out of the water . . . but then they sung the praises of that item also.

[rommi]

200 quid for the black DM37, 80 quid for the iPod dock. + Price of speakers.

This puts its seriously close to the B&W Zeppelin price of 390.

I have some B&W 601 (series 2 i think) in the loft. Adding the DM37 + dock sounds neat, but its a lot bulkier, less sexier. (Ok, no radio or CD, but who uses those )

I wonder how they would compare sound wise.

[Exapno]

Originally Posted by Paul D

Good price!

Very good price, I ordered one last night. Now all I need are some wall mountable speakers...

[zedwall]

Hi,
150£, very good price for you guys in UK,
you know, it costs 500€ in france (with the speaker)
i didnt see it without the speakers in france

looking for orter online UK and be ship in france.....

due to the £ at about 0.9€ its really great price in fr

want to be in UK

[whiteboy]

Isn't it a case of due to peoples taste in music they hear some differences in some speakers that other people don't. That's not to say these speakers are inferior, i suppose it depends on what your requirements are.
Apparantly the guys from Mission make the speakers for this system now.