Sound Improvement Disc

[Davieboy00]

This may open a whole can of worms but here goes.
Does anyone use a SID disc and / or have any comments regarding their use and worth ?
Cheers.
David

[Mark.Yudkin]

The S in SID is for "snake-oil" (not sound).

But if you find that the emporer's new clothes are the ultimate in the industry, go ahead and spend the money. You'll find plenty of others who are just as gullible and will tell you at length of the wonderous nature of the clothing.

[Cable Monkey]

To give a slightly more balanced answer, SID's work on the principle that all CD's have a degree of transparency. This can contaminate the light the CD pickup detects. The effects are subtle and not always consistent. For instance if your CD compartment does not allow light in the effects are reduced. The SID stops light getting where it shouldn't. In practice the effects vary from nothing to some perceived improvement depending on your kit, the CD and as proven above your point of view.

The SID sits in a realm of hifi that I tend to stay away from. To be honest, if you do find it works for you it is probably because your CD player is badly designed or poorly optimised in my personal opinion. However this tweak sells and some do swear by it so I would seek a loan/demo and make your own mind up.

[Mark.Yudkin]

SID's work on the principle that all CD's have a degree of transparency. This can contaminate the light the CD pickup detects.

Come on! If the CD is faulty and cannot be read correctly, then it's faulty and no amount of SID is going to make any difference to its pit reflectivity. Faulty CDs exist, but are not too common. Once the bits are correctly read off the CD by the transport, then they have been correctly read and its over to the electronics to process them, where no amount of CID is going to make the slightest difference.

Alternative proof: if CDs were so ludicrously unreliable that so many bits were always faulty and only some magic SID could make them reliable - in other words, you could hear the error interpolation working overtime on typical CDs - then CDs would be utterly useless as a data transport. The whole computer industry and its users would be in big trouble as nothing would ever install.

It's always amusing to see the "scientific explanations", since they are typically such utter nonsense. This one is hilarious as it's so obviously silly.

[karkus30]

Well, my take is to try it and listen. Who knows. Half the things I have heard in hifi should not logically make a difference and even when they do it can still be down to perception.

Put on some smart clothes and you instantly feel better, more confident and happier although nothing has really changed, you are still the same old you. Maybe Snake oil can work even if its use cant be scientifically proven.

Sometimes its easy to set out to disprove something and end up constructing the test to accurately disprove them.

Logic is a systematic method of coming to the wrong conclusion with confidence.

Read Schrodingers Cat for more strangeness and charm.

[Davieboy00]

Mark - Thanks , I thought if you made a reply it would be in this vein. The reason I was asking was asking was that I couldn't belive that a thin bit of plastic would make any odds.

Cable Monkey - Thanks for the balanced view. Got a brand new Arcam CD37 so would be very upset if it was spraying laserbeams willy nilly

Karkus 30 - Very similar to my view that if there is a percived difference to the listener it may be worth it. I use an expensive Townshend interconnect that myself and Mark have crossed swords on before. I think it makes a difference so I am happy.
BTW love the theory of Schrodinger's Cat . One of the most simple premises for a theory but incredibly mindbending. Also foolproof as it can never be proved or disproved.

What prompted me to ask was that I read somewhere that a company had come out with a SID / Stabilisation disc and were selling it for £250 or thereabouts which reminded me that I had heard of the SID discs somewhere before and thought I would garner some opinion.
Thanks all.
David

[Cable Monkey]

Originally Posted by Mark.Yudkin

Alternative proof: if CDs were so ludicrously unreliable that so many bits were always faulty and only some magic SID could make them reliable - in other words, you could hear the error interpolation working overtime on typical CDs - then CDs would be utterly useless as a data transport. The whole computer industry and its users would be in big trouble as nothing would ever install.

It's always amusing to see the "scientific explanations", since they are typically such utter nonsense. This one is hilarious as it's so obviously silly.

Mark, if you are trying to suggest that in recovering data from a CD a PC is restricted to the same constraints as a redbook playback system, that is quite obviously misleading. However I have no wish to take this off topic so my original advice stands which is for the thread starter to listen for himself. I don't disagree with you in essence Mark, but you do the cause no good if the facts aren't accurate.

[Mark Grant]

Originally Posted by Mark.Yudkin

The S in SID is for "snake-oil" (not sound).

Which CD players have you tried it with to reach that conclusion ?

Mark.

[Clive197]

Originally Posted by Mark.Yudkin

The S in SID is for "snake-oil" (not sound).

But if you find that the emporer's new clothes are the ultimate in the industry, go ahead and spend the money. You'll find plenty of others who are just as gullible and will tell you at length of the wonderous nature of the clothing.

Other things you can have rant on:
1. All cables are the same.
2. All DACS are the same.
3. All stands are the same.
4. All cynics are the same.

If you do not believe in it don't subscribe. Me, I like to keep an open mind.

Clive

[dingwall]

Originally Posted by Mark.Yudkin

Alternative proof: if CDs were so ludicrously unreliable that so many bits were always faulty and only some magic SID could make them reliable - in other words, you could hear the error interpolation working overtime on typical CDs - then CDs would be utterly useless as a data transport.

This product doesn't claim to work by reducing interpolation or data errors, it claims to work by reducing the amount of error corrections performed - a very different and technically sound proposition, pardon the pun.

Unlike computers which only rely on error-free data, characteristics other than data errors have important consequences for audio.

[Jimholt]

If it works for you then use it and enjoy. The thing is dont listen to the people that haven't heard it and make the assumption its snake oil. They talk out their

[Davieboy00]

Thanks all for the comments but ....... does anyone actually use or has used one ?
Cheers.
David

[Mark.Yudkin]

This product doesn't claim to work by reducing interpolation or data errors, it claims to work by reducing the amount of error corrections performed - a very different and technically sound proposition, pardon the pun.

CD read errors can either be correctable - meaning the read stream is perfect, or uncorrectable, in which case interpolation is required and the result is audible. If a "Snake oIl Device" is merely reducing the number of error corrections as opposed to audio stream recovery through interpolation, it is clearly and obviously claiming to do nothing whatsoever - which would be a very accurate claim of course, that would avoid misleading trade practices complaints.

I wonder if James Randi would like to add SIDs to his $1M offer?

[karkus30]

Originally Posted by Mark.Yudkin

CD read errors can either be correctable - meaning the read stream is perfect, or uncorrectable, in which case interpolation is required and the result is audible. If a "Snake oIl Device" is merely reducing the number of error corrections as opposed to audio stream recovery through interpolation, it is clearly and obviously claiming to do nothing whatsoever - which would be a very accurate claim of course, that would avoid misleading trade practices complaints.

I wonder if James Randi would like to add SIDs to his $1M offer?

You can argue the logic as much as you want. I once saw some extreme claims for some Japanese blocks of wood that had to be placed near the speakers. Everyone who tried them came away amazed at the difference in sound quality !!! I didn't notice one.

Same with circuitry. In the process of developing a Xover for a speaker I witnessed a simple movement of a wire in circuit.......it did not alter the circuit design in any way, just the connection point. Massive difference, no idea why ?

Mana stands........same ridiculous ability to transform sound by simply stacking one on top of another.......why?

None of these were double blind tests, but maybe that's the point, it really is not scientific in the accepted sense of the word. Maybe just knowing something has changed means that the listeners perception has changed.

Every day we take in information and delete, distort or generalise. The world we sense is only our own personal interpretation.

For some examples,

You wake up in the middle of the night with your heart beating. You heard a noise. Was it an intruder? You find it was just the central heating pipes or the house settling, but you still get out of bed and check, your heart still beats fast and its difficult to return to sleep.

You have an important meeting you really could do without. You try and find your car keys and they seem to have disappeared. You know you left them on the kitchen table. Your wife finds them for you. Where were they ? On the kitchen table! So what had happened to them that made them invisible to you?

How many times have you driven down the motorway and realised that somehow you had lost an exit.........it was there the day before. How many times have you arrived home and wondered how you arrived without remembering the journey. Somebody must have been driving ?

I know its a stretch, but it is perception that drives these things. The constant fly in the ointment is that we think of ourselves as perfect. We read a dial, measure a result.........what are we actually reading? What are the results agreeing with ?.......Its our own imperfect interpretation. Thats why everyone seems to like a certain colour, type of music, taste of food......there is not one perfect choice. So if someone says they think that listening to the hifi while they stand on their heads in a bathful of cold water, then it is relevant regardless of the your assertions that it cant. Why? Because they are your assertions, your interpretations......you cant know anyone elses.

No matter how implausible. The person who thinks it does........is right!

Now, for a second imagine you could live in someone elses world. See what they saw, hear what the heard, see what they see and feel what they feel. All in their own world view.........would make an LSD trip seem like taking a light painkiller

[Davieboy00]

Originally Posted by karkus30

if someone says they think that listening to the hifi while they stand on their heads in a bathful of cold water

Would be a short listening session
Sorry couldn't resist