Budget Cambridge Audio or Mini Hifi

[helix]

Hi there,

I am in the market for a budget hifi system.

I have bought a denon DM37 and a budget CA system comprising 340A and C to try out.

I already have a Samsung HD850 DVD player, B&W 601 speakers, and decent interconnects and speaker cable.

After trying various combinations of the CA gear, the mini denon and the samsung dvd player, I must admit that the differences seem negligible to me.

The HD850 DVD player through the denon doesn't seem quite as good as the built in CD player in the denon.

But then I really cannot tell much difference between the HD850 DVD and the 340C when played through the 340A amp.

And when comparing the Denon against the 340C and 340A I think the CA setup is marginally better (i.e. very little difference), but not as much as I had expected.

Should I be hearing more of a difference? I can't believe that the various combinations are so difficult to tell apart?

Thanks for any advice!

[majorwedgy]

Well I can tell you from first hand experience the sound you will get from your samsung DVD player is going to be pretty dire - and yes the dvd/cd player does make a fair bit of difference.
Secondly you are using the same speakers - will also make a very big difference
Thirdly the quality of components you are comparing are very similar, since the 340 is very much a budget amp and although the Denon is an all in one solution it is of the mid range variety (at least within the all-in-one solutions).
Unless you are comparing different speakers on the two amps or unless you try a different cd player I dont think you will see a huge difference between the 2 systems

[helix]

Originally Posted by majorwedgy

Well I can tell you from first hand experience the sound you will get from your samsung DVD player is going to be pretty dire - and yes the dvd/cd player does make a fair bit of difference.
Secondly you are using the same speakers - will also make a very big difference
Thirdly the quality of components you are comparing are very similar, since the 340 is very much a budget amp and although the Denon is an all in one solution it is of the mid range variety (at least within the all-in-one solutions).
Unless you are comparing different speakers on the two amps or unless you try a different cd player I dont think you will see a huge difference between the 2 systems

Thanks for the input.

Maybe the amp and speakers are reducing the differences between the cd player and dvd player, although I would expect a £150 cd player to play CDs better than a £70-80 DVD player?

I must admit, I am surprised how good the Denon is, considering the price and inclusion of DAB radio, usb etc... at £225 it is considerable cheaper that the 340A and 340C at £320.

One thing I noticed was that the Denon seemed a little more fatiguing over longer listening sessions. I guess this type of difference is harder to quantify when rapidly switching between A and B?

Also, the CA setup can go a little louder without loosing cohesion.

Maybe I am just not listening critically enough. What sort of things should I be looking for when trying to identify the differences?

[Arfa]

A fatiguing sound is often down to something being too bright, emphasising the high end and excessive details.

BTW what speaker cables do you use? Silver cable is often attributed to a bright sound.

If you're finding the CA setup can go a bit louder without affecting sound, maybe the Denon just isn't handling those loud bits of songs, the big peaks that stand out and is just clipping. This will surely cause fatigue and can in extreme cases damage the speakers. Of course if you're listening to modern compressed music, the entire disc will almost certainly be mixed at the same super loud volume anyway...

Of course the big disadvantage with a mini system, is in about 4-5 years the cd player will almost certainly die and you'll be forced to bin the lot...

[majorwedgy]

I have to say I really struggle to hear the difference between cables - I have 1 speaker rigged with Silver cable and the other with 42 strand copper cable and I would be damed if I could here the difference, once you get past a certain quality of cable - especially using the standard of equipment we are talking about here I cant say there would be any perceptable sound difference - although this has been argued to death elsewhere.

You have to remember that the primary purpose of the DVD player is to play DVDs and even then I suspect the majority of budget has been put into the visual quality rather than audio, conversely the Denon being purely audio - despite being cheaper has put the entirety of its budget into audio reproduction. Finally things like impedances, sound loss through the interconnects etc are not a factor with the denon all-in system. Ultimately you will have to try other components such as speakers etc to find kit that 'matches' to find the best all round system

[scorpion88]

I think fairly budget CD players can sound similar to DVD players. I have a 7 year old Cambridge Audio CD5 and a 4 year old Limit 9900SE DVD player through the same amp (Marantz PM4200) and to my ears they are very similar FWIW.

[majorwedgy]

That may well be the case but as stated above a lot depends upon the other components. for example if you fit a 6litre V8 engine in a mini (the genuine non BMW version) and leave the standard wheels on it you cant expect to go 0-60 in 3 seconds because the traction wouldnt be there to allow the engine to fully open up, the same with hi-fi kit, you will only notice the difference in components if the rest of your kit has scope for growth.

[scorpion88]

The mini would probably accelerate faster and louder!!

I think the OP should go with the CA set up as indicated above if the sound is good in own listening environment. The next step change would probably involve a better amplifier and/or speakers.

I agree that changing cables will make little if any difference IMO.

[helix]

hi all, thanks for the input.

Originally Posted by Arfa

BTW what speaker cables do you use? Silver cable is often attributed to a bright sound.

If you're finding the CA setup can go a bit louder without affecting sound, maybe the Denon just isn't handling those loud bits of songs, the big peaks that stand out and is just clipping. This will surely cause fatigue and can in extreme cases damage the speakers. Of course if you're listening to modern compressed music, the entire disc will almost certainly be mixed at the same super loud volume anyway...

I am using Chord Company Odyssey 2 speaker cables, and Sonic Link interconnects.

Also listening to mainly compressed music so I guess dynamic range is not an issue!

Originally Posted by majorwedgy

You have to remember that the primary purpose of the DVD player is to play DVDs and even then I suspect the majority of budget has been put into the visual quality rather than audio, conversely the Denon being purely audio - despite being cheaper has put the entirety of its budget into audio reproduction. Finally things like impedances, sound loss through the interconnects etc are not a factor with the denon all-in system. Ultimately you will have to try other components such as speakers etc to find kit that 'matches' to find the best all round system

But even compared to the 340C through the 340A, the denon seems near as damn it as good. And the DVD player through the 340A is pretty much the same as the 340C through the 340A.

I suspect that:

1. either the budget CA stuff is about the same quality as the denon and the samsung hd850
2. the b&w 601 speakers aren't good enough to show up the differences
3. the room is preventing the differences from being heard
4. my skill in hearing the differences is underdeveloped

Originally Posted by scorpion88

I think fairly budget CD players can sound similar to DVD players. I have a 7 year old Cambridge Audio CD5 and a 4 year old Limit 9900SE DVD player through the same amp (Marantz PM4200) and to my ears they are very similar FWIW.

I think I agree from my experiences, notwithstanding the above...

Originally Posted by majorwedgy

as stated above a lot depends upon the other components

This is the conclusion I am coming to.

I have the gear on trial all week, so will spend more time listening. Unless I begin to hear the benefits of the 340C, I think I will stick with the 340A amp and my DVD player for now, until I can justify the upgrade to a much better CD player. And at that point, I will probably want to upgrade the whole system

As an aside, are there any good second hand amps that have remote control that I should look out for that would be better that the 340A at a similar price (i.e. around the £150-£170 mark)?

[evans]

[*]the b&w 601 speakers aren't good enough to show up the differences

On my B&W speakers i recently changed from OFC good quality to crystal OFC and the difference was very noticable, not just to me but freinds as well.

[majorwedgy]

what are you using to drive your B & Ws?

[evans]

arcam a70 intergrated amp

[helix]

Originally Posted by evans

[*]the b&w 601 speakers aren't good enough to show up the differences

On my B&W speakers i recently changed from OFC good quality to crystal OFC and the difference was very noticable, not just to me but freinds as well.

Interesting, thanks. I think the Odyssey 2 is Silver plated OFC. What exactly is crystal OFC?

[evans]

Im using belkin purav silver series interconnects and speaker wire 16 gauge using pure crystal oxygen free wire inside breif description i got of the net:

Product Description
RCA Audio Cables deliver exceptional clarity and detailed, natural sound using hybrid-conductor technology and the highest-quality materials to maximize the performance of your audio video components. RCA Audio connections are used in nearly all consumer AV devices, and provide one RCA connection for each the left and right audio channels. PureAV Silver Series RCA Audio Cables give you exceptional clarity and a more natural-sounding midrange using superior-grade materials and advanced technologies. The Purest Sound ? Drastically reduces signal distortion for unrivaled audio clarity using 99.9997% oxygen-free, PCOCC conductors and high-purity, silver solder joints ? Optimizes performance at all frequencies for consistent, exact sound reproduction using hybrid-conductor technology ? Maintains stronger signals that yield superior sonic accuracy with precision-formulated, polyethylene dielectric material ? Isolates from outside noise for superior clarity through double-shielded construction ? Protects against wire damage for consistently high-quality audio with integrated strain relief ? Creates precise contact for low loss with split-tip, center-pin, and 8-cut, 24k gold-plated connectors ? Provides comfort and ease of install with non-slip rubber grip and integrated color-coding