Entry level cdp or Beresford dac?

[godzilla1]

Greetings.

I have a bit of a dillema and could really appreciate some advice.

Im not sure whether I should buy a Marantz CD6002 cd player (£200) or a Beresford TC-7510 DAC for my Toshiba HD e1 DVD player.

If you where in my position which way would you be inclined? Im leaning towards the DAC as its cheaper than the Marantz and from what reviews I have read, people seem to be quite exited about the product.

Thanks for your time.

edited to add. My amp is a rotel ra 04 and my speakers are floorstanding tangent clarity 8's.

[evans]

good day m8 ; i recommended the beresford to a freind of mine who couldnt afford a decent cd player. its around 170 euro with a coaxial cable. At first he didnt like it but i told him it needs some hours break in time. No he is very impressed and happy with the sound. I heard it and it is quite nice for the money.He bought a cheap sony dvd player but also has the XE1 toshiba HD dvd player and prefers that. So transport makes a difference. The beresford also has alot of input/outputs which is handy. Cant speak about the sound of the Marantz , they have quite a good reputation on the audio front. The beresford has been compared to 1000 USD CD players. My friend has since hooked up a subwoofer and it has improved sound no end he says. Bear in mind he is using a belkin power isolator 60 euros from amazon.uk which i have also and does wonders to hi fi. If you do get it its value for money.

[godzilla1]

Hi evans. Thanks for taking the time out. All this info can be a bit to much at times. Fascinating hobby though, just a shame its so ££££. I reckon i will go for the DAC. Lots of rave reviews, but i have been stung before when i purchased a red wine audio imod (modified ipod). That too was reckoned to sound like a $1000 USD CD player and people where waxing lyrical about it. I guess these things are subjective though. Would like a sub, but I live in a flat. My neighbours secretly want to execute me due to my low fi use, if i bought a sub...

I hear you about the mains filter / conditioner. Got one and am well pleased. They work for sure. VFM is a must im afraid, though im starting to think in silly terms about my next upgrade after the DAC.

Anyway, a pleasure to make your acquaintance

[evans]

The beresford gets rave reviews but i think its a bit of self promotion im afraid. Same with alot of other DAC brands. The beresford however with my friends toshiba was excellent, no distortion at all and quite a good detailed musical sound. I think if your hi fi system sounds abit too bright a good tube DAC would be good to smooth out the sound or if your sound is too laid back a good solid state dac like beresfore, benchamark would be good.

Since you have a power conditioner which is great another thing i cant do with out is an equalizer, mine is an old technics 17 years old but does the job. I recommended to the same freind of mine behringer equalizer but and its fantastic for 140 euro http://www.behringer.com/GEQ3102/index.cfm?lang=ENG

[godzilla1]

My low fi setup is slightly bright, but i intend to remedy this by buying a 'cost effective' valve amp. The intention is to bi-amp the solid state rotel (lows) and valve amp (mids / tweet). All the music I listen to is relaxing calming type stuff. Artists like erykah badu, Nick drake etc. A warm soothing sound is what i crave.

That equaliser looks like a nice bit of kit. It says it has "sweepable high- and low-pass filters ". Would that Eq work for bi-amping?

[KingKrell]

IME some DVD players make pretty poor transports. I tried my Panasonic through my Benchmark DAC1 and it was pretty very flat and conjested. Don't completely believe the jitter free stuff either. One to try...

[evans]

Originally Posted by godzilla1

My low fi setup is slightly bright, but i intend to remedy this by buying a 'cost effective' valve amp. The intention is to bi-amp the solid state rotel (lows) and valve amp (mids / tweet). All the music I listen to is relaxing calming type stuff. Artists like erykah badu, Nick drake etc. A warm soothing sound is what i crave.

That equaliser looks like a nice bit of kit. It says it has "sweepable high- and low-pass filters ". Would that Eq work for bi-amping?

The equalizer is very good value, it does have filters but you have to do some research if your interested. My friend initially said to me no way an equalizer but now cant do without it. Im ordering shortly the brigatta tube dac from pacific valves in the US although costly looks like the sound i want.http://www.pacificvalve.us/Brigatta.html.

you could also buy a tube buffer instead of paying loads of money http://www.pacificvalve.us/YaqinTB.html, i think music fidelity make one too to give the analogue sound.

[godzilla1]

Thanks guys. I've read that different transports sound different. I dont doubt it, but I dont understand it either. If a transport lifts the 0's/1's from the disk and fires it into the DAC why would the sound differ? I reckon i could pick up a cheap CD player if there are serious problems with the DVD player.

I've looked at the EQ and thought hard. Thats an awful lot of kit and prossessing to put between the source and amp. I would also need xlr to rca leads to hook everything up ££. I am still tempted though and might well be in the future.

Im going to order the DAC on monday and i will let you know how i get on once it is run in.


Thanks again.

[CJROSS]

Originally Posted by godzilla1

Thanks guys. I've read that different transports sound different. I dont doubt it, but I dont understand it either. If a transport lifts the 0's/1's from the disk and fires it into the DAC why would the sound differ? I reckon i could pick up a cheap CD player if there are serious problems with the DVD player.

Godzilla, just to show how people’s experiences vary in this hobby, I have owned a few DACs in my time including the Beresford, I have even blind tested 3 different transports into my old TAG DAC, I for don’t hear differences between transports. YMMV. DACs are a fantastic way of upgrading the anlg outputs of digital devices though.

[evans]

Originally Posted by godzilla1

Thanks guys. I've read that different transports sound different. I dont doubt it, but I dont understand it either. If a transport lifts the 0's/1's from the disk and fires it into the DAC why would the sound differ? I reckon i could pick up a cheap CD player if there are serious problems with the DVD player.

I've looked at the EQ and thought hard. Thats an awful lot of kit and prossessing to put between the source and amp. I would also need xlr to rca leads to hook everything up ££. I am still tempted though and might well be in the future.

Im going to order the DAC on monday and i will let you know how i get on once it is run in.


Thanks again.

The equalizer i showed you is terrific value and i do recommend it. Also a cheap solution would be to get good pureav silver series Belkin speaker cable and RCA interconnects made of crystal copper instead of just OF copper. I am also a bit confused about using different transports with same dAC gives different results like my friends. Of what ive been reading good DAC's have good jitter control devices so transports dont make a difference as much. Jitter being timing errors between transport and DAC which affect the sound; but i could be wrong. Now if the DAC is cheap its jitter devices might not control the jitter effectively thus its up to how the transport deals with it. As im no expert maybe someone who is can elaborate

[CJROSS]

Evans the normal jitter range for integrated CDPs or DVD players is from 100 spec (good) to 1000 picosec (bad). In fact I have seen £150 DVD players (Toshiba & Pioneer) that have been tested and found to have 150 & 185 picosecs. When you consider a few year ago that CD transports from the likes of Theta Carmen were lauded for being 200 spec !!!. Jitter to me is an old auiophile worry with transports that has been passed. I’d also suggest a DAC that able to work with the jitter they receive or they are not designed properly IMHO.

Final thing my current CD player is my Toshiba SD-9500 DVD player this has been measured as having 40 spec of jitter *. I have used it with TAG, CA & Beresford and it made no difference from an old Pioneer 717 DVD player which will have a jitter rating of around 200 picosecs.

* one is for sale in the classfieds for £250 so if jitter is a big concern this is a great transport !!, £250 is a piffling amount when you consider what the thing can do (XLR ouputs, HDCD, DVD-A & can be used a DAC with 2 digital inputs), it showed a clean pair of heels to my Beresford which sounded very good in its own right for CD use. If I had the choice of a £110 Beresford or a £250 SD-9500 I’d suggest the Toshiba every day. I currenlty use it balanced XLR into my Primare.

http://www.areadvd.de/hardware/toshiba_sd9500.shtml

[evans]

Thanks for the tip it looks a bargain at 250 and i have always been impressed with toshiba products. Very interesting about the jitter measurements too.

[godzilla1]

Hello. I've just been reading about jitter rates and crystal copper rca's

Tbh I am lost.

The tosh hd e1 dvd player has a jitter rate of 296.8ps. Would that be considered a prohibitive jitter rate?

I will most definetely be ordering a belkin pure av rca to replace the cambridge audio atlantic rca that im using right now (thanks evans) and will look at the speaker wire to. At present, Im using sterling black mamba leads in a bi-wire configuration. I will also pick up a FBQ3102 EQ in a month or two when funds improve. Got to sort the source out though as the imod mp3 player does not please my ears.


As i say, I am lost and need some direction. What would you do, get the beresford DAC or buy the Tosh SD 9500?

I really dont know what to do.

Thanks for your time

[CJROSS]

Originally Posted by godzilla1

As i say, I am lost and need some direction. What would you do, get the beresford DAC or buy the Tosh SD 9500?

I really dont know what to do.

Thanks for your time

Godzilla, I’d hate to suggest that because you have yo make your own journey in this hobby (my post are here from Nov 2000 to see my journey !!!) but I can honestly say that my system sounds stunning right now it is not gonna change much, and it is up to you!!, I feel a SD-9500 on its own is a better CD source than a Beresford yes !!!. But you have to take that advice in the conetxt of my system, ie I think you need to spend £1500 per item on amplifier & speakers to have that relevance. FWIW If I were setting up a system from scratch after what I had gathered in this hobby I would suggest the following % on hifi kit : 50% on speakers, 40% on amp, 9% on source & 1% on cables*. !!!

* honestly.

[godzilla1]

Hi CJ. Your dead right. This is a budget low fi setup that does not have the nessesary resolving power to make either the sd 9500 or DAC a clear choice. Im going for the beresford. May as well try it. Its £120 and if it sounds junk so be it. Please bear in mind i have been using a red wine audio imod (modified ipod) as a source. So i have no idea what my low fi setup is actually capable of.

Im not looking to spend ££££'s. For one i cant afford it and tbh walking into a hi fi showroom with a blank cheque would not be fun. I just want to extrude every single drop of performance from my kit and get a half decent sound for chump change.

So my plan is this. Buy the beresford dac, then the Aureavox Triptych which is one pair of class “A” 8 watt monoblocks, and a matching stereo preamplifier (£449). I will then bi-amp the rotel and valve setup. Speakers will be upgraded later. If things still sound shocking then i will walk into a hi fi showroom with a blank cheque (most likely)

Thanks